cut out vs. trap out.

[HomeSteadDreamer]

I got a call today from an apartment complex that has bees in the wall.  I figure it is a cut out.  But the trap out you take most of the bees using like the cone method and leave the rest right?  I can't watch the video and I'm supposed to swing by there tonight and look at it.  I've had a couple swarm calls but I haven't done a trap out yet.  I did do a cut out but the wall was a mess when I got done.

I should have been specific.  I'm looking for a guideline on how to tell which is better.  It seems like a cut out is going to have to be done either after a trapout or by itself.  Because if you don't remove the comb and the honey the wall will attract roaches, mice and in the heat the honey will leech out without bees to keep it cool (saw this happen once after an exterminator kill the bees but didn't open the wall).

Any input would be great as being at work I can't do as much research as I would like.

[iddee]

If you can't watch the video, all the info you need is in the posts in the five listed threads. Read them.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20301.0.html

NO, you don't leave any bees or honey. All you leave is the dry comb and it will NOT do any damage.

As for which is best, the cutout is. One day versus 7 to 12 weeks. One trip versus 10 to 20 trips. Good possibility of getting the queen, thus the genetics.

[HomeSteadDreamer]

Thanks for the link Iddee.  When I clicked on that thread from the main forum the links didn't show.  Now they do so that will work.  Thanks.

[G3farms]

Cut out is always best. That way you clean out the hive and can properly seal any entrance holes and if need be fill the cavity with fiberglass insulation. Best part is the customer clearly gets to see that the bees, honey, comb, brood, etc is cleaned out.
But this means opening up walls, floors, siding, sheet rock, etc., etc., and the customer needs to understand that to be able to do a proper cut out you must be able to physically put your hands on the entire hive, not just be able to look at it from a distance.
Do not sell your services short either, remember they need the bees gone more than you need bees, stick to your guns and walk away if need be. If you spend 8 hours doing a cut out, figure in all travel time, cut out time, gas, etc., and put a price on that you could have bought a nuc for $125-$150 and not even broke a sweat. There is no guarantee the your cut out bees will make it either.

Trap outs are expensive on you, a minimum of 7 trips to complete one, and still no guarantee of a viable hive out of the deal.

If the bees have been sprayed, charge more. You do not want to be doing a clean out on sick, dying dead bees for nothing.

Good luck and post pics.

[HomeSteadDreamer]

yeah just got back from the inspection.

The first one is a 'new' hive would most likely be a fairly easy cut out (assuming things I can't see).  But even though they say they haven't been sprayed not sure that is true.  This hive the bees seemed larger and my guess a swarm from someone using foundation.

The second one is hot for my taste.  We got no closer than about 7 feet and my hubby got stung.  I can walk up to my hive at the same time of day and barely even get noticed.  He had three more follow him about 25 feet and two follow me for 10'.  I don't think they are africanized but I don't need pissy, probably sprayed bees.  The second hive would be a more difficult removal and it looks like they have tried before to close this hive up or get rid of it because there was some spray foam in an area not too far from the opening. I figure they probably tried to close up the opening (trapping bees inside who just chewed out another area since there is wood rot).  And if they have tried that they probably tried spraying as well.  This one the bees were smaller so probably feral bees.

Since we don't charge, I'm just going to tell her that we aren't interested.  I've contacted the only other guy from around here that I know wants to do removals but haven't heard from him.  They'll probably try spraying again.  The second hive maybe we caught them in some kind of uproar or maybe they just didn't like my hubby's smell but I don't think those genetics are ones we want anyway.

[greenbtree]

Sometimes walking away really is the best option.  Also, I always ask "When were they sprayed last?" in a friendly, upbeat sounding voice - so often, they will trip up and tell you the truth before they get a chance to think about it.  :roll:  A trap out in a rental property situation I wouldn't even consider - the first few days are truly scary looking to non-beekeepers, and that is with mild mannered bees.

JC

[HomeSteadDreamer]

Yea on the phone we were told they weren't sprayed but when we got there and were driving from one to the other I asked something like that and the girl was like we stopped them (the exterms) from spraying today because it didn't work before.

Definately walking away on this one.

[capt44]

I've quit doing cut outs after learning to do the trap outs.
Follow Iddee's instructions.
I followed Iddee's instructions and did 11 trap outs last season and all but one was a success, but I did get the bees.
I've got 9 trap outs scheduled to set up the 3rd week in April around Central Arkansas.
A lot of folks are leaning more to trap outs because of the expense of repairing the damage of a cut-out.

[HomeSteadDreamer]

They weren't interested in a trap out because of the time it took.  I just walked away.  I have too many hives right now as is.  I am interested in collecting a few swarms hoping to get some local survivor genetics.  But this wasn't worth the time since they were most likely sprayed, one hive was hot, it was a cut out and I don't charge.

[D Coates]

...it was a cut out and I don't charge.

There's your problem.  Your time, energy, knowledge, and equipment must be worth something.  If you don't want the job, charge enough to make it desirable for you.  If they bite, great, you'll make some good money.  If they don't, great, you didn't want the job anyway.  It's a win-win for you.  If they find someone else who'll do it for free, 9 out of 10 times you get what you pay for.  That beekeeper will eventually realize he (or she) is being used and will start charging too.

The lowest (or no) price is spinning your wheels as a beekeeper.  Charge for your expertise, experience and professionalism.  Don't be afraid to ask for payment for services rendered.

[iddee]

A friend of mine was asked to put a hive on a property last year. He didn't want to, so he priced it totally out of reason. It was accepted. He got enough to buy several hives from it. Now, this year, the guy wants 2 hives at the same price.

Listen to D Coates, price it too high and see what happens.

[capt44]

All I've got to say is the Trap-Outs work.
I've got 8 going right now and had to change boxes on most of them.
I've got calls coming in every day wanting trap outs done on trees and structures.
So far all have been happy with the results.
I just tell them that if I can get to them I can trap them out.
Just follow Idee's instructions and it will work.
I've got one set up on an apartment building and so far the manager is happy as can be.
After a few days you will have a lull on bees coming out of the funnel, but when that queen decides it's time to go look out.
I've had to use a bee vac to get the bees balled up on the funnel and front of the hive.
When I see no bees coming out in a week or so I remove the funnel and the bees will rob out the nest.
Here on trees I very seldom let the bees rob the tree for when the population drops in the nest the hive beetles will go rampant laying eggs.
But structures I let them rob out the nest.

[Jim134]

IMHO...


  I have a question to ask you how bad are the SHB in your area ??  I do know a lot of times you cannot finish the trap out before the SHB will slime the hive you finish the trap out just a thought.  :roll:



           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)