Starting Out - Package vs Nuc

[AlamoBee]

For a beginner starting out, would you recommend package bees or nucs?  Nucs have more bees so I guess you would have a full hive sooner and some comb and brood already started, but would package bees be better so that things go slower as you are learning?  Other than price is there a real advantage to either for the beginner?

[BlueBee]

IMO a nuc is more fool proof if one can be had at a competitive price.  Not only should you get frames of drawn out comb with a nuc, you should also get at least 3 frames of brood.  That's THOUSANDS of new baby bees that will be hatching out in less than 21 days.  With a package, the already old bees have to build fresh comb, the queen has to lay fertile eggs (hopefully), and then you have to wait at LEAST 21 more days for the first fresh new bees to be born.  Those delays and uncertainties add some risk.  The other advantage to nucs is you should have good comb as opposed to everything that can go wrong if you start out foundationless. 

Truth be told, bees are very flexible, and packages work fine most the time too.  I just think the odds of success are a little greater with the nucs if you can justify the cost premium.

If you do go the nuc route, keep a weary eye on our fellow beeks!  Some will simply dump a package in a box for a week and sell it as a nuc.  If they do that, they have not really earned the premium $ that an established nuc deserves IMO.  Also avoid nucs that the beeks put their old junk in; like combs as black as coal! 

[10framer]

if i were starting i'd do it with packages because i don't like used comb. 

[beesNme]

Hi Alamo  ,  i am heading into 2nd season with bees,   i started with nucs and they did great,  ditto to what bluebee said.  As time went on a swapped out the older foundation with empty frames and let them build their own comb.  Good luck  : )   

[rookie2531]

I started with a package because I didn't know anybody with a nuc. I would have started with a nuc, if I did a little more searching but was told by a fellow co-worker/beek that there was a supplier near me and he was only selling packages.

It was still cold when the packages arrived and they drew the comb super slow, when they finally got some drawn, the queen layed badly and they superceded her. It took a good 2 months before they got going.

I would definitely choose the nuc.

[biggraham610]

X2 to rookies comments. I just ordered 3 packages to hedge my bets, but will be looking for nucs if I can find em to replace winter losses. Superscedure rate is a factor with packages, plus just time, releasing the queen building comb, vs. queen already laying with eggs thru capped brood. I would choose a nuc if given the choice. Good luck, whichever you choose, and enjoy the addiction. G

[jayj200]

Down here our x bee club president, never keeps the comb. so I would determine by that they all start new colonies as packages. hundreds a year
San Antonio is not that cold or short seasoned.
a cut out, or swarm is fine a package too. a nuc, or a whole hive.

the most fun for me was the cutout one knows the temperament in AHB territory . then the catching. buying ah

[Michael Bush]

If you can find a local nuc (local queens, overwintered locally etc.) then a nuc is by far the better choice simply because package quality had gone so low.  Not all nucs are created equal.  Some of them are just a package that someone put in a five frame box.  Some of them are an actual nuc (three frames of brood and two frames of honey/pollen and a queen) but they are from far south.  The good think about a package is that you can put them on the combs you want (e.g. top bar hive, small cell foundation, mediums etc.) while a nuc is already on some kind of frame (which may not be the size you want) and some kind of foundation (which also may not be the size you want).  Before the quality bottomed out, I would have recommended the package for that reason.

[AlamoBee]

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice.  As a beginner, I am planning to start with 2 hives. My next question is, how far apart should they be, or does it matter?

[GSF]

I have 5 to the stand. The one in the middle has the greatest distance between hives. I have it like this so I can hang frames when I work on them.

I've been watching the NW New Jersey Bee videos and I like the "quite" box thinking. Instead of hanging a frame on the side of a box they place it in another box and cover it up. Seems to keep the bees less excited.

[Michael Bush]

>Thanks everyone for the replies and advice.  As a beginner, I am planning to start with 2 hives. My next question is, how far apart should they be, or does it matter?

I have 14 to a stand, all touching...

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Hives3.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Hives2.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Hives1.jpg

Here are two stands on top of each other when I was building them:

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/StandsTwoSm.jpg

[ugcheleuce]

If I were starting I'd do it with packages because I don't like used comb.

What is your definition of "used comb"?

[jayj200]

used comb

[CBT]

Ouch

[L Daxon]

I teach our beginning beekeep class and when students ask me what they should start out with, a package or a nuc? I suggest they try one of each.  You learn different skills with a package that you don't get with a nuc (like hiving a swarm, releasing a queen, etc.)  When you have the two different setups starting out, you get to compare how they build up and realize that 3-5 lbs of bees will behave differently in different circumstances   (i.e. when placed on drawn comb vs foundation, etc).

There is no foolproof way to start out. 

[10framer]

If I were starting I'd do it with packages because I don't like used comb.

What is your definition of "used comb"?

comb from someone else's hives.  i don't like used equipment of any kind when you get down to it.

[Intheswamp]

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice.  As a beginner, I am planning to start with 2 hives. My next question is, how far apart should they be, or does it matter?

I set each of my hives on two cement blocks.  You being down in African territory it might be good to have them on separate stands.  Should you acquire any african genes in your bees then having them on the same stand might cause problems...vibrations caused from working one colony could transmit to the adjoining hive and irritate those bees.

If you have plenty of room you can place them ever how far apart you like....it will keep drifting down if they're several feet apart.  But, if you are limited on space then enough room between them so you can work them comfortably is good enough.

Just some thoughts...
Ed