Another dead out

[hvac professor]

It has been a typical north eastern winter with a lot of below zero temperatures. I am still a fairly new beek with this only being my third winter, but unfortunately today I found my second hive loss. This hive appears to be similar to my first loss a month ago with plenty of stores but two separate clusters dead in hive. I guess I just don't have the experience to know what exactly the cause is, both hives were wrapped as I have done past two winters with no losses. I am sure there were some mites as I do not treat but still not sure.
Any ideas for future experience would be helpful. Thanks

[buzzbee]

If your mite population was growing with no treatments, third year is a good thresh hold year for losses. The mite populations explode at about the time overwintering bees are being raised. The extended cold snap may have just been the straw that broke the camels back.Having a large winter cluster is not enough, it has to be a healthy cluster going into winter.

[hvac professor]

Thank you Buzz Bee, I appreciate your input

[hvac professor]

Any other thoughts out there?  :?

[AllenF]

6 deadouts in the fall before the cold.   6 more deadouts last month.   And most all were loaded heavy with honey.  2nd year with no treatments. 

[cdray]

I think it's a fact of life. Some live...some don't.

[hvac professor]

Cdray, I really enjoyed the YouTube video of the hive behind the plywood. At the end of the video it had a brood box strapped atop a step ladder. My questions are:
1) did the brood box get left on the ladder to get the remaining hive population back in the evening into the box?
2) did you re-queen the hive or add it to another hive you had?
3)did you put the comb with the brood into the box on the ladder?
Sorry if my questions appear typical as I am new and eager to learn.
Thank you again for the response on dead outs! And the video

[GLOCK]

VARROA is a real problem and is you are starting out and going treatment free your going to lose bees
I have lost 2 hives so far this year and they here healthy clusters and had queens and a little patch of brood it  was just to cold for to long.  If you ever think about treating OAV is working well for me .
Just saying ;)

[hvac professor]

Thank you Glock

[Michael Bush]

It is always worth checking for Varroa.  Reality is that on the average, people who treat for Varroa lose 30% of their hives over winter.  On the average, people who don't treat lose 30% of their hives over winter.  Winter is hard on bee colonies.  The issues vary from year to year.  Sometimes it's a failed fall flow that causes them to miss that last batch of young bees in the fall.  Sometimes it's just bitter cold that does in some of the in between sized ones.  Sometimes it's those wimpy Southern bees who can't take winter.

[sc-bee]

And sometimes they starve because they won't break cluster to go to the feed if it is not close enough...

[T Beek]

I've been fooled into thinking a colony was dead in the past.  Had to leave town in early Spring and because of extended travel didn't get back home until the weather had warmed and pollen was widely available.  The assumed 'dead out' (silent despite rapping, hadn't touched the sugar left for them, no sign of cleansing flights) was now alive and kicking (the size of a baseball!!), thrived during the summer, made lots of honey and survived the following winter so I could make splits from it. 

For this reason, I think it pays to wait a bit before deciding to clean out an 'assumed' dead out hive.  Even a small cluster can survive if provided the chance and pollen is soon to be available.  Ever since the above experience I now wait until the willows bloom before opening up or disturbing too much, an assumed dead out……..and I've been surprised several times discovering a small cluster of bees, some brood and the queen inside a hive I 'thought' was dead. 

I can only hope that this Spring brings me such a surprise  :-\ Only two months to go……. ;)

[stanisr]

Another possibility is that moisture may have played a roll in the loss. If moisture accumulated on the inner cover and began to drip on the cluster it can cause them to split into two smaller clusters. since your hive was wrapped, this may be something to look at.

[jayj200]

It has been a typical north eastern winter with a lot of below zero temperatures. I am still a fairly new beek with this only being my third winter, but unfortunately today I found my second hive loss. This hive appears to be similar to my first loss a month ago with plenty of stores but two separate clusters dead in hive. I guess I just don't have the experience to know what exactly the cause is, both hives were wrapped as I have done past two winters with no losses. I am sure there were some mites as I do not treat but still not sure.
Any ideas for future experience would be helpful. Thanks

If they are wrapped? how? are they vented at the top and at the bottom entrance?
     I have been watching THE BEE VLOG he had the same problem in Oregon. No ventilation at the top!
means's condensation on everything! Wet your feet in a cold house for a while. bet you'll go for slippers and socks!
 I have seen this on another hive vid where they wrapped the hive with one inch Styrofoam everywhere except the bottom board.this sounds to me a safe hedge, then vent the top and bottom well.
this sounds reasonable and minimal  sounds safe
jay

[hvac professor]

I do believe moisture played at least some type of role in the dead out, I am 100% sure all bees were dead as I removed all of the boxes and pulled a couple frames, bees were dead in the frames of honey, with plenty of stores. I did see some moisture inside of the top cover. Quite a few dead bees had the bottom entrance partially blocked which already had a mouse guard in place. Small top entrance also but not very large

[hvac professor]

One of my neighbors hives just did the same as mine, hives very similar.

[jayj200]

Any more thoughts out there?

        Yes I have many. Too many dead outs!
Too many dead outs which may have or could have been prevented?
Depending on how cold it gets in your area. Maybe one or two inches Styrofoam as a wrap?
 all around? better, or good ventilation is a must!
no feeding sugar syrup during hard freezes, just table sugar.

jay