Say it with me now - Car-knee-oh-lan, NOT Car-no-lee-an.

[Grid]

Hi all.  Just a little rant.   :-x

<rant>
We don't say (or type) Ilatian honey bee. 
Nor do we say Bufckast, or Rissuan, or ...

So why do we keep calling Carniolan (car-knee-oh-lan) bees Carnolian (car-no-lee-an) bees?  It's not a pronunciation thing, it's simply wrong.

The Carniolan bees come from a sub-region of Carniola (now in Slovenia), in the Southern part of the Austrian Alps and North Balkans. These bees are known as Carniolans, or "Carnies" for short, in English.  NOT Carnos.  Carnies.  Say it and type it with me now - car-knee-oh-lan.  Carniolan.  Carnies!!!!

I need more sleep.  A little grumpy this morning I think.   :-D
</rant>

Thanks.
Grid.

[ziffabeek]

Lol, Grid.  I have the same kinds of pet peeves!  I'm actually glad you posted this, because I did not know that I was pronouncing it incorrectly!  Car-nee-oh-lan. Got it! :)  But it does make my tongue twist a bit that way, so maybe I'll stick with Carnie.  :)

love,
ziffa

[Scadsobees]

I don't keep carnies, I think that would be cruel.  I do see them maybe once a year, they control the rides.

I keep honeybees.  Not hone-bees, not hnee-bees, but hu-nee-bees.

 :-D  Yeah, maybe just a bit grumpy! 8-)

[Grid]

Thanks Ziff.  Nice to see someone took it well. :lol:  Even in my quick google search to find the etymology of the name Carniolan, I found website after website spelling it wrong.  On the other hand, I knew exactly what was meant, and regardless of what we call them, they are nice bees.

Scadsobees - LOL!  Hopefully my kids will let me get a good night's sleep tonight, so the grumps will depart.

Grid

[Tommyt]

While your at it
its Not EYE Tal e N
It is e tal - yan   :-D


Tommyt American
 with Italian Grandparents :-D

[Trot]

Maybe the grumpiness should stay for a while longer?  :-D

There is no 'k' in Car-nee-oh-lan.
There is no such a thing as 'the south part' of Austrian Alps. 
Carniola lies on the "sunny side of the Alps!"
The international boarder between Slovenia and Austria runs on top, on sheer peaks of Karavanke mountains and one perhaps can say that the north side is Austrian and south - the sunny side - is ofcourse Slovenian or Carniolan.
I must add that if there was the 'ownership'  given to 'those' Alps that would surely go to Slovenia for almost all, 90% of this mountain range lies in that country.  On north side, the Austrian side, there is precious little to the mountains, mostly only dizzying, sheer cliffs...
Austria, on the other hand, does have numerous mountain called Alpen, they do belong to them.
To be more precise the ALPS is a common name for a mountain range, extensive group of mountains, extending, are of interest to us, from Alpi Charniche, on Italian side.  Karniche Alpen, on Austrian side, this whole central region which goes by this common name -ALPS.
 
All that was once ours, but after the WWII was 'smartly' divided by English and Americans who for some time, after the war, patrolled this much disputed land of Carniola.  When they got tired of it, they drew 'temporary boarder' and gave much to Italians, more to Austrians and the rest grabbed Yugoslavia where Slovenia stayed until the early 1990-ties when Slovenia broke away from Yugoslavia and the war known as 'Balkan War' started. . .  And than Croatia grabbed a good portion of Slovenia and is still grabbing our land to this day, with no opposition from Slovenia or the EU - European Union - to which Slovenia is a member state. 
(They don't want to start another war?)
So, on the side of nowadays Slovenia, the mountains are called Karavanke - same name stands for Austrian side as for Slovenian! 
(Name is Slovenian, for our land and its people stretch all the way to Klagenfurt - Vienna, etc, etc. . .)
In the interior of Slovenia, to the south lie Julijske Alpe which stretch again into Italy, the par of which was annexed.  To reinforce this; in Italy stand mountains called; SLAVIA (Slovenia) VENETA  (the land of ancient VENETI - later known as Carniolans - today Slovenians) with towns of Tolmin and Kobarid where one can to this day enter the tunnels in the mountains, pick bones and remnants of war-machines, this is the land where fiercest battles of WWI were fought.
Further east, from Karavanke, lie Kamnisko Savinjske Alpe.  East from there is Pohorje and from town of Maribor the land stretches on into the 'flat-lands' all the way to Croatia and beyond.  This 'flatland' is the natural brake from the Balkans and is nohow connected by any mountain ridge to central Europe. 
Balkans can be perhaps proudly claimed by Serbia, but I doubt that even that nation wants to be connected to Balkans?

And the ill informed people keep calling that region of Central Europe - BALCANS!  So, go figure?

Northern ranges of Balkans are hundreds of kilometres to the east and encompass the south-eastern part of former Yugoslavia.
Slovenia, with neighbouring Italy and Austria are all solidly in CENTRAL EUROPE! 
Hungary, the other Slovenian neighbour, could perhaps be mentioned as to be part of the Balkans, but I doubt that Hungarians would concur?

But, after this runt - don't take my word for it - I was only born on the 'sunny side of the Alps' themselves and skied - walked and run on them, every day, for 20 years! 
Yes, I also kept bees there.  I kept the real Carniolans or 'Kranjska sivka', as they are lovingly called there...
Yes friends, Carniola is not only known for its bees but is known as the land of the best beekeepers on the world as well. 
In years past, almost every house had in the garden, a cebelnjak, with at least six or nine hives...  Now all that is slowly going by the wayside.
My bee-house - Cebelnjak - still stands there today..... although it is now empty and serves current owners of our house (Vila was taken from us by REDS) as a woodshed, or something like that?

Regards,
Trot

[Grid]

Maybe the grumpiness should stay for a while longer?  :-D

No, that's ok.  Work week is done, and I'm at home with the whole weekend ahead of me.  :)

There is no 'k' in Car-nee-oh-lan.

Quite right.  I was thinking of my body part, and typed "knee".

There is no such a thing as 'the south part' of Austrian Alps. 
Carniola lies on the "sunny side of the Alps!"
...
...

Wow.  Thanks for the history/geography lesson.  I am not being sarcastic, I mean it - very cool to know all that, especially from someone who was "born on the 'sunny side of the Alps' themselves".  Much better than the snippit I got from Wikipedia, which is what you are correcting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carniolan_honey_bee

So, it is car-nee-oh-lan (no 'k'), and NOT car-noh-lee-an.  :)

Grid.

[Trot]

It is alright Grid, there was no intent, on my part,  to steal your thunder, nor to correct you personaly.  No intent to correct what Wikipedia has on its pages, about this region.  I only wanted to inform the readers, to sort of steer them onto the right track. 
Balkans are to this day, a troubled place and depends on who discuses it, or writes about it?   For even old history keeps changing as new discoveries are made and ancient sites and artifacts found. . .
The borders for the Balkans are not defined, per se, they are delegated by history, if you will.  The old Ottoman Empire is where the proper Balkans were and there they should lie - the way they did for few hundred of years.  Part of Yugoslavia was under Ottoman Empire for around 800 years or so.  And those inhabitants were forced to inbreed and take their ways as their own - to this day!  Even though that Turks tried to occupy Carniola and Austria, for all those years - they never succeeded, cause those tough old warrior tribes defeated them every time they would come to pillage and conquer.   They constantly drove, pushed them back to Croatia where they had a foothold for a while, on and off, so not even southern parts of Croatia were never part of permanent Ottoman Empire.
To mark on the map the far reaches of Ottoman excursions is wrong?  Why mark it into Slovenia and not into Hungary, Austria and even France?  Turkish armies even knocked on the ancient walls of Paris - once or twice?
So, even though they show on the map and talk about river Soca as furthermost reaches of Balkans - Turks never did reach that far into the mountains of Julian Alps.  They only went as far as Ljubljana, capitol of Slovenia to this day.  Failing to conquer Ljubljana they would spill their armies on over river Sava and on into Austria, with not much success and eventually settled back behind their boarders which encircled the Ottoman Empire proper...

I make no mistake by saying that those excursions by Turks to those lands were most murderous?!  Most of the lands were completely cleared of its inhabitants whose man-folk hid in the mountains and forests with few exceptions where heavily fortified villages and towns withstood the onslaught for years on end.  But those bands of mountain warrior tribes did manage to repel those invasions for centuries.  So it is only proper to give those souls some credit where credit is due.
To this day in regions of Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Serbia one can hear folks songs glorifying the Janicars - young native boys captured and raised by Turks into fierce commanders of marauding troops which were in regular intervals unleashed on troops native land...  Those ware most feared and most murderous bands of Turkish fighters but still not good enough a match for resilient warriors that they encountered.

So, Wikipedia is made up by contributions of many people and many minds do not work the same, are not known to work in  unison for such broad undertaking.  So, info on the subject is only as good as the input and effort made by those with this subject at hand...

Anyway, my countryman, you did achieve what you set out to do.  I hope all will remember?  It is Car-nee-oh-lan. . . ;)

[skflyfish]

Please excuse this somewhat off topic question, but Trot, do you use a bee house in Sudbury? For a small cottage country apiary, these seem quite handy.

Thx,

Jay

[Trot]

No Jay, I do not use bee-house here.  It is too cold and hives need to get some sun in order to survive our minus 30 and minus 40+ temperatures.
I wish I could...

Regards,
Trot