Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => HONEYBEE REMOVAL => Topic started by: iddee on February 26, 2009, 11:19:47 pm

Title: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on February 26, 2009, 11:19:47 pm
The cone, with an exit hole sufficient to allow two drones to exit together...Must be 1/8 inch hardware cloth. Screen will collapse and clog up, preventing the bees from getting out. 1/4 inch will allow the bees to pass through.

a piece of plywood with a hole in it, size varying with the different jobs.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/bees002.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/bees003.jpg)

a tube of silicone caulk and caulking gun.
Screws and screwdriver
Catch box, either hive body, super, or nuc, with all frames except one.
One frame of brood and EGGS. Yes, I capitalized EGGS.
Platform to mount catch box on, preferably adjustable height.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/BEES007.jpg)


Normal set of equipment carried for a removal.
Expect edits to this post as I remember other things I am forgetting at this time.

Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: JP on February 26, 2009, 11:47:47 pm
I seem to be finding more and more single story brick exterior homes where hives have built between the brick and blackboard, they can be a cut out nightmare, because the bees will extend comb as far as they want to left and right and because its attached to brick and mortar.


...JP
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: RayMarler on February 27, 2009, 03:41:37 am
Very nice post iddee!
You've made the procedure much more simple for me, if I ever have the chance to do one. :D
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: JP on February 27, 2009, 10:46:29 am
First stupid question, how do you make your cones and keep them from unraveling?


...JP
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on February 27, 2009, 11:56:10 am
I roll the cone a bit smaller than I need it to be, then push it through the hole in the plywood until it stops. It will spread a small amount when released. On the larger ones, I lace the wire in 2 or 3 spots along the cone. The smaller ones won't need it. Then I trim the wire behind the board about 3/4 to 1 inch. I clip the wire to where it will fold down against the plywood and I staple it.

Not a stupid question, once it is asked. Only the unasked ones are stupid.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: JP on February 27, 2009, 12:10:32 pm
So, how close to the catch box does the cone need to be, the pointy end of course.


...JP
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Robo on February 27, 2009, 12:17:05 pm
First stupid question, how do you make your cones and keep them from unraveling?


...JP

Not try to butt in on Iddee's thread......

You can find cone calculators on the internet to help you lay out a pattern.  Of course the one I used is now gone, but here is a similar one.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/antti.lusila/models/laskekartio.html

I made a couple of different sized patterns out of poster board that I just lay on the screen and trace with a sharpie.

Lacing the cone together with the wire you embed in foundation works well.  Also hot glue works well with aluminum screen.    For some reason,  the majority of the trap outs I get are in a corner so a flat board doesn't work. to secure them.

Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on February 27, 2009, 08:48:23 pm
Whatta ya mean "not to butt in"? Heck, I need all the help I can get. Get in here and lend a hand.

Watch the screen, tho, as said above, it will collapse and stop up your exit. That will cause the bees to look for another exit, usually inside the house. NOT GOOD for public relations. 1/8 in. hardware cloth is all I will use.

JP, I'll cover cone placement in the set up post. It will be coming soon.

I'll also cover setting the cone in a corner. You will be able to use a flat board, but with shims.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Robo on February 27, 2009, 10:15:19 pm
Watch the screen, tho, as said above, it will collapse and stop up your exit.

I have never had a problem with it, so never gave it much thought.  But can't argue with you, the #8 is much more rigid.  There are enough other things that can go wrong,  so why add another.  The main reason I used screen was that it was flexible enough to easily bend/twist in and around corners.  But with the #8, it looks like you can re-use your cones over and over.  With the screen it is one and done.  Looking forward to how you deal with the corners.

Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: cundald on March 02, 2009, 04:43:12 pm
Should the cone be double walled.
What prevents the bee from passing the nectar throw the screen to others side. :?

cundald
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on March 02, 2009, 07:13:59 pm
Once the inside bees enter the cone, they will continue until they exit. There are none in the cone to pass the nectar to. They don't realize there is a problem until they have exited, then it is too late.
Title: Re: Trapout box location question
Post by: defendthecommons on May 24, 2009, 03:23:06 pm
Hi folks
I have a trapout opportunity and need advice on placement of my hive catch box. This is my first time trying this.
The hive entrance is at the top of a bay window that has a flat roof, very old house. The bees go in a little crack at the corner of where the top of the bay window meets the molding of the side of the house. And the hive extends down the whole second floor wall, which is easy to hear. AND! The queen likes to pipe when the beekeeper comes to see them!! Amazing piping. That's another story... 2 queens?

So, I want to put my deep and super stacked on the roof of the bay window, which places the entrance ABOVE the current one, and about 6-12 inches from the current entrance.  Is that OK? Can I construct my cone to go upward to the bay window roof?

PS. What would happen if I drilled a hole in the wall where the hive is, down low toward the second floor where I hear the hive seems to end, and smoked them a lot? Would that scare them enough to think they're on fire, gorge and then head for the exit? What would the queen do? Would she get out as well, out the cone, and walk into my new hive?

Thanks
D
Dutchess County, NY (Millbrook, New York)

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4018/image331k.th.jpg) (http://img40.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image331k.jpg)

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8779/image332.th.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image332.jpg)

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8119/image333.th.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image333.jpg)





Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on May 24, 2009, 04:39:14 pm
That looks like a good candidate for an entrance re-location. It's similar to this one.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/bees034.jpg

Please read these links, as most of your questions are answered there. If you have doubts after reading, get back to me and I'll try to answer them.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20301.0.html
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: The Bix on July 15, 2009, 12:04:32 pm
Where do you find 1/8" hardware cloth?  I have been to Home Depot, been on the Lowe's website and called all the Ace Hardware stores and the smallest mesh they carry is 1/4"...at least that seems to be the case here in the Denver area.  Any other sources?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: joker1656 on July 15, 2009, 12:17:55 pm
Here is probably a simple question, but how long will the brood/eggs sit before the bees will take care of them?  Obviously, not too long since you, iddee, have done this numerous times.  Is there a chance they will start making a queen right away? 
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Robo on July 15, 2009, 12:24:05 pm
Where do you find 1/8" hardware cloth?  I have been to Home Depot, been on the Lowe's website and called all the Ace Hardware stores and the smallest mesh they carry is 1/4"...at least that seems to be the case here in the Denver area.  Any other sources?

Thanks!

http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=522
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/8-Mesh-Hardware-Cloth-1-Linear-Ft/productinfo/539/
http://www.mcmaster.com/#hardware-cloth/=2r99l6
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: joker1656 on July 15, 2009, 12:37:48 pm
I guess what I am really asking about the queen is, is there a chance that they will make a queen, and the old queen come out?  If that happens, I guess, nature takes its course.  ???  Regardless, I am going to try it again, and see what happens. 
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on July 15, 2009, 12:49:48 pm
The bees will begin tending the brood within a couple hours of setting the trap. There will be queen cells within 24 to 48 hours. If the trapped colony is over a month or two old, the queen will not come out before the new queen emerges, and will likely continue for parts unknown when she does. She may take the catch box if the swarm just moved in within the last few days.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out #8 hardware cloth
Post by: Stone on September 03, 2010, 04:35:33 pm
#8 hardware cloth can be special ordered from Ace's.  Cheapest prices I've seen and gets to you in under a week.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Meadlover on October 09, 2010, 10:04:02 am
What do you guys use to fill voids to block all the entrances?
For small gaps I have used silicone, for large gaps I have cut pieces of plywood to fit and siliconed them in, as well as used stainless steel wool for weep holes.

What about medium sized hard to get holes?
I am looking at a trapout but there are a few gaps that need filling, and they are recessed to the point I won't be able to get pieces of plywood in there. There are 2 holes in particular about fist sized, so silicon by itself is out.

I was thinking of a crapload of stainless steel wool? Any suggestions?

Thanks

ML
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on October 09, 2010, 10:09:57 am
Why not just some old rags?
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Meadlover on October 09, 2010, 10:20:50 am
Hmmmm, a much simpler response than I was thinking - love it. I was worried they might chew through material eventually.

Well I might give this trapout a go this coming week after I make myself a set of cones, since my 1 and only cone is in use at the moment :)

Thanks iddee
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Robo on October 09, 2010, 12:54:49 pm
I find balling up aluminum foil works well.   You can use your hive tool to tightly pack it in.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Meadlover on October 09, 2010, 08:28:10 pm
I like that one too Robo. I think I might use a combo of both rags and alfoil on this trapout.
Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Acebird on December 14, 2010, 04:30:57 pm
It works!  I got all the confidence in the world but could someone explain something to me?  If there is an exit hole large enough for 2 drones then why can't they go back in?  I am assuming it is something like a lobster trap.  Also, could someone give me the English version of "2 drone" diameter?  I am guessing 1/4 to 3/8 diameter.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on December 14, 2010, 05:52:30 pm
If you use a solid cone, such as a funnel, they will go back in. If you use 1/8 in. hardware cloth, they see only the wire "fence" and cannot distinguish the entrance from the smaller holes. They do not see the cone shape.

Yes, approx. 3/8 inch Diameter, maybe even a half inch.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Acebird on December 14, 2010, 06:14:53 pm
Thank you.  Very interesting
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: preston39 on May 03, 2011, 02:16:26 am
I like that one too Robo. I think I might use a combo of both rags and alfoil on this trapout.
Thanks guys.
=========
Would a can of foam insulation work?
I am getting ready to do a trap out of an oak tree with an odd entrance/exit configuration and plan to use it around the board to control the exit.... would like to know if it may be ok.
Thanks,
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Tommyt on May 03, 2011, 07:59:36 am
Just a FYI
I have used silver color metal window screening and it has worked well
I don't overlap it very much so its stays some what transparent 
I am doing one as I type ,I'll try and get a Pic of it

If you use the foam you will kill a bunch of bees Now that I mentioned the screen maybe you could use it
for the hard to stopup,angle's on the tree??

Tommyt
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on May 03, 2011, 08:33:59 am
Bees will remove the foam after it sets.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: preston39 on May 03, 2011, 08:41:43 am
Just a FYI
I have used silver color metal window screening and it has worked well
I don't overlap it very much so its stays some what transparent 
I am doing one as I type ,I'll try and get a Pic of it

If you use the foam you will kill a bunch of bees Now that I mentioned the screen maybe you could use it
for the hard to stopup,angle's on the tree??

Tommyt
====
Tommyt,
Thanks,
I failed to mention that I planned to put s screen at an angle between limb and trunk...at an angle up to the board creating a 3-5" channel to the board exit hole...then put the foam on top of the screen to block several small rotten cavities in the limb and tree which could be used as exits. The foam would not come in contact with the bees....unless they choose to contact it where it fills the hole(s) I will not use it if fumes from it may hurt the bees.....? Or are you thinking of them chewing on it and hurting themselves?
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 02, 2011, 07:42:27 am
Hi iddee,

You say

Quote
Catch box, either hive body, super, or nuc, with all frames except one.
One frame of brood and EGGS. Yes, I capitalized EGGS.

Do you mean all frames except for one to allow for the frame of brood and eggs? ie in a full, use 9 frames plus the frame of brood and eggs?

Are the frames with or without foundation?

Thanks mate
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 02, 2011, 07:59:43 am
I have another question regarding the "hardware cloth".
Here in Oz we don't have easy access to your #8 (1/8" \ 3.175mm) mesh. What we do have easy access to is 3mm mesh with 1.2mm wire dia or 3.3mm mesh with .91mm wire dia.

I imagine the smaller wire diameter would be more suitable but I am unsure if the 3.3mm 'holes' would be too large?

Any input on this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Intheswamp on November 02, 2011, 08:40:42 am
ShaneJ, #7 wire mesh is roughly .143 inches and is believed to be almost perfect for using in building small hive beetle traps...lets the bigger beetles through but keeps the bees in/out.  Unfortunately it's about as scarce as hen's teeth. :(   

#6 mesh wire (which is reported to let *some* bees through) works out to something like .167 inches.   

Your 3.3mm works out to being roughly .130 inches which is a tighter mesh than even the #7 wire mesh is and should hold the bees fine.

This is considering that I've disregarded wire gauge in my calculations and that all my calculations are correct, which I believe they are being as I took my boots off so I could use all of my digits. ;)

Best wishes!
Ed
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 02, 2011, 10:24:11 am
Thanks Ed, very helpful.

I do have yet another question that I have found conflicting answers to. The frame that I source from my existing hive with eggs and brood, is it ok to take some bees with it? If not what is the best way to remove the bees without disturbing the eggs?
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on November 02, 2011, 10:37:31 am
The catch box should contain the egg frame, plus enough frames to fill the box.

Either wire should work. Use the one that is easier to fold and mold into a cone.

Shake the bees off the egg frame, leave them on, or place a whole weak hive on the trap with queen, to bolster it's strength. It doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 02, 2011, 07:44:15 pm
Thanks mate.

Shane
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 03, 2011, 06:07:48 am
I have just read about 60 posts on this forum regarding foundationless frames. I don't have the time or the equipment at this stage to modify frames with guides etc, so will using frames with fresh foundation be ok with the one frame of eggs/brood?

Thanks
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Jim134 on November 03, 2011, 07:21:24 am
I have just read about 60 posts on this forum regarding foundationless frames. I don't have the time or the equipment at this stage to modify frames with guides etc, so will using frames with fresh foundation be ok with the one frame of eggs/brood?

Thanks

 I read one frame EGGS
and

May bee one a frame of brood  :?


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 03, 2011, 07:46:52 am
In Iddee's other thread "Setup the trap out" he says:

Quote
On the day of the setup, I will remove a frame of brood, WITH EGGS,

I have read Iddee's posts over and over just to get the plan set out in my head.

Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on November 03, 2011, 09:01:19 am
Shane, you are correct. Yes, one frame of brood with eggs and the rest foundation will work.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Robo on November 03, 2011, 09:02:05 am
You need EGGS so that they can make a new queen in hive on the outside of the trap.   One frame is sufficient.  You usually can't get a frame with just eggs,  but can get a mixed frame of brood and eggs.  

My preferred method is to take one frame of brood (with eggs) and put it in the trap hive as close to the base of the trap cone as possible (usually all the way to the side of the hive that touches the wall of the house) and then fill the remainder of the hive with 9 frames of foundation (assuming using a full size trap hive).
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 03, 2011, 09:05:04 am
Thank you guys. Much appreciated.

My only concern now is finding some eggs in my current hive. I'm very nervous about this part.

Shane
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on November 03, 2011, 09:09:36 am
The only thing you should be nervous about is insuring you don't get your queen. If it is warm on the morning you do it, you can shake off most the bees from the frame.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 03, 2011, 07:26:30 pm
Getting the queen was the second thing I was nervous about. I was planing on spotting her on a frame really quickly and then grabbing another perfect frame with a good mix of eggs and brood. :roll: :-\ I wish..
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Robo on November 03, 2011, 07:49:38 pm
If you can spot her and set her aside, that is the safest.  If you can't find her than do your best to thoroughly examine the frame you want to take (study both sides of the frame at least 2 times)  then shake the bees off,  examine one more time and then put it into your trap out hive.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Meadlover on November 03, 2011, 09:35:00 pm
Shane,

I have only ever just put 1 frame in my tapouts (with open brood & eggs, no bees).

Because it is right next door you are at such an advantage with this trapout!
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 03, 2011, 10:01:17 pm
Thanks.

Lets just hope that my advantage means success. :)
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Robo on November 03, 2011, 11:10:33 pm
Actually, there is also a disadvantage with it being so close.   Once you have completed the trap out,  you will need to find a place to move the hive for a couple of weeks that is more than 2 miles away.   Moving them a few hundred feet doesn't work so well,  unless you do it a foot at a time.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: ShaneJ on November 03, 2011, 11:16:25 pm
Is that right? This is definitely the case with my native bees but didn't know the foreign bees were the same. Thanks for letting me know.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: GDRankin on September 02, 2014, 02:29:39 pm
Quote
One frame of brood and EGGS. Yes, I capitalized EGGS.

Hey guys, pardon me if this has been addressed in more detail and I missed it, but . . .
when setting up a trapout and using a frame of brood and eggs, do you want to include some nurse bees to tend to the eggs and brood? Or will that cause a conflict with the new bees that will be moving into the new trap hive?

I've been successful without adding nurse bees, but the temps are rather high down here in south Texas this time of the year, so I thought the nurse bees may be helpful, but didn't want to start a fight among the unrelated/strange bees.

Thanks,
GD
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: iddee on September 02, 2014, 03:00:17 pm
I have used queenright nucs for the catchbox, and used frames with eggs without nurse bees, so I would say it doesn't matter. Either way works.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: GDRankin on September 02, 2014, 03:09:42 pm
Okay, good deal. Thanks for the speedy reply!
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: jayj200 on September 25, 2014, 01:13:09 pm
First stupid question, how do you make your cones and keep them from unraveling?


...JP


I use cone glue. we keep it with propwash
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Ben Framed on November 13, 2022, 11:50:11 am
I wanted to bump this. A similar subject came up this morning and I think this topic by iddee deserves to be renewed.

Phillip
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Bill Murray on November 13, 2022, 12:02:51 pm
yes, what I like about this whole set up is it takes the work part out of the equation and replaces it only with time.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: G3farms on November 13, 2022, 04:54:43 pm
Still work, several trips to the removal site for sure.

1. site visit to meet the property owner or at least see what is going on.
2. gather materials for sealing cracks and holes, bait hive, frame of brood, brackets, ladder, etc. and load up the truck
3. site visit to seal all of the cracks and holes, set the screen cone, set the bait hive which usuall requires some kind of brackets. Wait and watch to see that everything starts going your way.
4. site visit after 1 or 2 days to make sure they have not found another way in/out, maybe plug more holes and cracks.
5. site visit after a couple of weeks to make sure everything is still going your way, maybe even pull the original bait hive and replace with a new one. Look for signs of a queen, depending on how long it has been, Q cell, Q cell remnants, eggs, etc. Observe for bees still exiting the cone, could take and hour or so, first thing I do is plug the cone with grass while I and looking for queen
 signs.
6. site visit after several more weeks, no bees exiting cone, remove the cone and watch entrance hole for a while. Bees going in and out, fine. Bees going in with pollen........put the cone back on and wait some more.
7. site visit, pull everything down, plug entrance hole, collect money and head to the bee yard to set up a new hive.

easy peasy.........at least if close to home or on the way to/from work.

making the cone and keeping it together.
I roll mine up the way I want it and use an office stapler on he big end to put a couple of staple in it just to hold it in place. then use frame wire to stitch it together. easy peasy.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Bill Murray on November 13, 2022, 05:00:19 pm
Still my friend only time.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: G3farms on November 14, 2022, 08:11:04 pm
Yes just time, but a lot of gas and running around that you could be doing something else.







I find that the blue tap-cons work great for attaching the brackets and cones to any type of masonry
type wall
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Bill Murray on November 20, 2022, 11:43:26 am
But you do get paid for this correct? And if so it seems It should be a good income stream, trapping them out vrs all the work cutting them out.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: G3farms on November 20, 2022, 02:07:24 pm
Paid......absolutely, and very handsomely I might add. Only freebies might be for some elderly folks who you know could not afford it. I always go to look before pricing.

nice little sideline income last year of 10K for just fooling around with some bees.

Had rather do a cut out over a trap out any day. Less time involved and the bees are gone. Plus I got to keep the wax.
Title: Re: Materials for a trap out
Post by: Bill Murray on November 20, 2022, 03:52:52 pm
Never thought about the wax side.