abandoned queen

[Kathyp]

doesn't absconding seem more likely?  just because a queen was left behind, does not mean that it was not absconding.  could have been a 2 queen hive, a new queen, etc.  i would hesitate to jump to the conclusion that it is CCD.  the hives could have been disturbed by robbing, or even the honey harvest.

[Cindi]

Dane, have you done anything to kill the yellowjackets?  What I mean is the traps set around the colonies?  I had excellent results with the yellowjacket traps. And get this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This morning I thought I would try to put some Kombucha in them and see how they liked it, I was getting rather tired of wasting beer on them.  I see they love Kombucha way more than beer, good, cheap and thank goodness it won't be beneficial to their health.

I hope things work out well for you, be aware of those blasted and dreaded yellowjackets, I hate them almost as much as the varroa mite.  I know hate is a strong word, but it works for me. Have a wonderful and beautiful day in this life.  Cindi

[TwT]

doesn't absconding seem more likely?  just because a queen was left behind, does not mean that it was not absconding.  could have been a 2 queen hive, a new queen, etc.  i would hesitate to jump to the conclusion that it is CCD.  the hives could have been disturbed by robbing, or even the honey harvest.

bee's leaving a queen and brood, highly unlikely IMHO but in this world now days there aint no telling, I wouldn't want to have anything like that happen to mine either, Dane could have had something else happen to his hives for them to be that way, he hasn't said if his hives matched the symptoms yet, but the ole saying goes, if it looks like crap, smells like crap, then its probably crap..

[Cindi]

Ted that ol' saying of "looks like crap, smells like crap, then it probably is crap" is one of the best sayings in the world.  Seems everyone is familiar with it eh?  I love it, so true to true!!!!  Have a wonderful day, great day in our life.  Cindi

[Jerrymac]

Oh crap.... I thought it was a duck  :shock:

[KONASDAD]

This , if I rememeber correctly, a strong thriving hive. Making a total collapse from YJ unlikely. I would imagine that the yellowjackets came after whatever happened to your hive. I would suspect the more traditional diseases before CCD that went unnoticed by first year beek. The more stuff that happens the more you learn. I would look for mites or other diseases first or just bad luck.

[Dane Bramage]

Thanks for all the replies!

Definitely difficult to tell...  I've been reading (elsewhere) of those with experience on YJs systematically destroying their hives and I think they are, at least, a contributing factor.

Cindi ~> yes, I've been trapping them and even found one nest (which I immediately destroyed) but it was further away and they still keep coming.  I'm actually not seeing so many of them now.  But when I open a hive and a YJ comes out, it's not encouraging (happened one time).

and on another section of that site it tells the symptoms, does yours match?

and this was in your first post

One hive is dead 100%.  Loads of honey, "bee-bread" but no live bees whatsoever.  Dead larvae, dead emerging (newborn) bees and a small blanket of dead ones on the bottom (SBB). 

see the first line in the top quote with little or no dead bee's,,,,, could have been the first one to get it and died out, the second hive you could have caught in time to see it, you never said how many dead was in the second hive? it could be yellow jacket but does sound like symptoms of CCD from what you are saying....

oH SORRY HAD MY TINFOIL HAT ON AGAIN   :-P :-D ;)
 

I hi-lighted in red the part of my first post which makes me think it is not CCD.  "Small blanket" meaning the bottom was blanketed in dead bees, and by "small" I meant not a deep pile... but definitely significant numbers (~100+?).

I appreciate everyone's input.  Leaving the postmortem & diagnosis speculation aside for now (please) could anyone please help me with this previous question ~> is freezing the only safe method of storing filled frames?  I've already treated the empty hive with Bt (for wax moth) and have it closed 100%, but still in the bee yard.

btw - I took a couple of frames (w/larvae & live bees) and did a swap from a strong to the lonely-queen hive yesterday.  Unsure if it was too late or not.

Thx again!
Dane

[KONASDAD]

Personally, I wouldn't use frames from a hive that collapsed w/o additional knowledge as to why it collapsed. Finsky has often provided great ways to keep small colonies alive through the deepest of winters. Including heating w/ small lite bulbs, feed info and the like. Perhaps thats the way to go. Again, I wouldn't take from the questionable hive anything and put it in a healthy hive until you have a gretaer knowledge of why. Also, I wouldn't weaken a strong hive too much to save the weak one this time of year. Feel for you. I have had some scares, but no losses yet myself and know I am lucky so far.

[Kathyp]

if the honey is capped, it should keep just as it would in a container....however, keeping ants, etc. out of it, could be a problem.  you also might run a risk of mold on the frames.  not such a big deal as i understand it.  the bees can take care of it later.  i bought a chest freezer at costco for < 200 dollars.  by removing the frames from the boxes, i can store quite a few in there.  an investment to consider?