When to start winterizing Southern Ohio

[atthelake22]

 ;) Hello All fellow beekeepers!
It has been a while since i posted on here but have been reading quite a bit instead. :)
 HOwever, I have not found anything as to the question I have been desperately seeking an answer to yet...so I'm posting it here for some help from so many of those of you who are seasoned veterans at beekeeping. :roll:
   I was wondering when you begin to "shut down" or prepare for the winter in terms of weighing the hive bodies to make sure that they have enough storage to get them through the winter. We have odd winters here, sometimes it is absolutely freezing as in weeks of 20's and below and often the overall is below zero. It is so diverse and impossible to predict which way it is going to go of course just like in all areas basically, but only a few miles from the OHIO river and it really can create quite a diverse winter season so no predicting accurately, seems even the weather men have difficulty predicting day to day during the winter  :shock:soooo......
But my question is basically two fold......as you know my father passed away and i inherited the best hobby of all times BEEKEEPING :lol:>
..we have 5 hives and i so want to have 5 hives again come next spring ;).
 We started out in 2005 with 20 hives and kept them ALL healthy and thriving until last winter when we opened the hives and found NOTHING WHATSOEVER>>NO dead bees and etc :'(
....I attributed it to the ccd.....for there were NO bees whatsoever in the hives at all NONE!! SPOOKY actually :shock:....but there was plenty of honey/pollen frames and even unhatched brood!!! SO i obviously want to hold on to these....as they have become my "friends and pets" per say. :roll:.....but i digress ....here is the question...
Could someone please tell me when is the best time to start preparing for winter ????
Have you started doing anything at this early fall time???
 I have 2 hive body hives and at this time we still have supers on the hives ready to remove them tomorrow....for the final robbing....the hives have absolutely packed their hives with honey and pollen and the population looks wonderful at this time :)....they are still coming and going like the busy bees they are: bringing in pollen and still filling frames with honey in their hive bodies....

I have screened bottom boards and use entrance reducers in the winter....dad never wrapped the hives and they did alright so i do not plan on wrapping just making sure that all hive bodies are in great condition and no cracks or vented openings between the bodies....but we do use an inner cover with the hole in the center ...I know to turn this inner cover upside down in the winter to allow more ventilation :?
 and yet i read on here that some also cover their screened bottom boards in the winter... :? I do NOT remember my dad ever doing that, then again I could have missed that visit to the bee yard, but really don't recall that at all.....should I do this and if so with what??? cardboard/wood/etc

My question is WHEN or about WHEN should i be doing this....I know that a hive should weigh about 150 lbs going into winter.....we have stored honey frames from the hive that we had to remove during the summer to keep them from getting honey bound so i have FULL frames of honey to put in if i see come time for the cold to hit, to put in for them to pull from (in the freezer at this point but will bring to outside temp and then put in if see one is lacking in the honey storage) and they have just thrived beyond our expectation  :-Xbut i have that honey to place into the hive if needed or one seems a little "slow"....we have also a NEW hive that we just started in june due to an old queen needing replaced and it too is thriving in population yet struggling a little on getting all the honey i feel they need for winter I know to add some frames of honey to that one.
We use the confectionary sugar shake to get them to groom themselves, and the thymol cords in the fall AFTER the supers are removed and we let them clean out the supers by placing them a distance from the bee yard to assure that it doesn't promote robbing or fighting.....that has been very successful and they did a great job cleaning.
So my question is WHEN to start preparing, seems august is a little early to completely shut down in my areas that is......yet i am an newbie at this still i feel .......so should I and when do YOU start treatments for fall???
 I know the supers are to be OFF the hive when you do treat.
...we also treat them with wintergreen, tea tree, and peppermint in the syrup of 2 to 1 for the fall.....when should i start doing that and do i leave that on until the hive weighs the appropriate amount??? 
I like to keep all the natural products in use that i can, and the bee inspector was amazed at the minimal amount of mites that we had thanks to reading a lot of posts here   :-Dfrom Michael Bush and utilizing his natural processes.....but intend on treating for mites pre-winter, feeding with syrup 2:1, taking off supers before treating with thymol cords, and using apistan on the inserts at the entrance,and using entrance reducers for we live near a field and the mice will invade otherwise, my cats love their attempts for the cats mill about the bee yard just waiting it seems at times!!
 BUT I have never covered the screen bottom board before ....is that done from the inside or the outside of the hive??? Is it a necessary process for some reason i thought that leaving them open would help with condensation am I mistaken??? :?
I am so sorry there are so many questions   :oops:but oh how i wish there were a check list of EXACT Things to do but I know nature is NOT exact and NOT consistant in its weather and so forth....so if anyone can help me to decide how to determine WHEN to start the fall shut down it would mean a lot.....
I know when daddy was alive he often went into late september before they were totally shut down and if having an extended summer heat year he would go to early October....AM I JUMPING THE GUN HERE???
I just so love this hobby and my girls that i just do not want to overshoot the care ya know???
Please advise and I SOOOOOO appreciate all the knowledge on this site and the kindness of those of you who deal with beeeeeginers like me .......thank you so very very much for any input you can offer me.
Sincerely and anxiously awaiting any reply or help you can offer......
atthelake22

ps we also use dry sugar on the frames for extra assurance that they will have plenty within clear reach when needed.....should i do that AS i'm shutting down or should i wait for a warm winter day to shake the sugar into the hive?????

[Cindi]

Atthelake22.  Oh, you have spent alot of time creating this post, and you really need to get some answers.  There are beekeepers in your area that can help you out for surely with your questions.  The weather is the most integral thing when we begin to prepare for wintertime.

I will give you an example.  I live across the river from a place called the Honeybee Centre.  I have taken some seminars over there and the owner/lecturer is simply wonderful and so knowledgeable.  But my circumstance with weather is so different than his, it could make your head swim.  The nectar flow that I have here for my bees (and my two neighbours that are about 1/4 mile away from me) is astounding.  I have planted a myriad of bee plants that will be flowering deeply right into the end of September, if not longer.  Now the ability of the bees to process this nectar, of course, does stop.  When I took my beginning level 1 and 2 of beekeeping, we were taught, for our particular area (my side of the river) to arrest any feeding around October 6.  That was the deadline for sugar syrup feeding....period.

In the newsletter that came from the Honeybee Centre, it was indicated to now have all the honey supers off, reduce the hive bodies to one deep for the winter.  That is not even an option here at my place.  Period.  Whatsoever.  The bees will be working hard, and I mean hard, for at least another month.  I cannot even begin to think to comply with what the instructor/owner of this centre indicates.  My bees have too much work to be still doing.

So....if you have followed what I am saying, the weather can change so drastically from area to area, it will be hard to indicate to you when exactly to begin winter preparations.  But maybe there will be someone close enough that they can give you a reasonable time frame.

Isn't it wonderful that you took after your Dad and continued on with his obsession with the bees.  I use that term loosely, we are all obsessed with our bees, we are under their spell, and how can one not, what a world of excitement and wonder they provide for us, beauty.  Good luck, I hope that you will get some answers that will make you feel comfortable with bringing the bees into winter, strong clusters to bring through to the spring build up.  Keep us posted on how you make out with answers.  If you don't get answers that make you feel comfortable, ask again and again, until you get that warm and fuzzy feeling of contentment.  You deserve it.  Have that most wonderful and awesomely great day, groove on this life.  Cindi

[indypartridge]

It sounds like you're on the right track. I'd say now is that time to start planning for winter, but you need to know your local area. For example, I'll be pulling my last supers off this week. Then, I'll be watching to see what kind - if any -fall flow we get. Here in central Indiana, sumac is blooming and goldenrod is just starting. If, by mid-September the hives are feeling light, I'll feed the rest of Sept and Oct.

As for treating - have you done mite counts? I don't treat unless I know there's a problem. Here, mite counts typically spike about this time of year. If I understood you right, it sounds like you're treating with powdered sugar, and thymol, and apistan on top of that? Might be overdoing it - when you throw everything at them it's hard to know what's helping and what's not.

Regarding screened bottom boards: I leave mine out all winter. Others, in colder/windier climates close them. Again, depends on your local area.

Are you involved with a local club? Clubs are great places to find mentors and beekeepers who know how to keep bees in your area. Looks like you may be close to clubs in Ohio, WV and Kentucky:
Ohio club:
http://www.ohiostatebeekeepers.org/Regional%20%26%20County%20Clubs/countyclubs.html
Kentucky clubs:
http://www.kyagr.com/statevet/bees/association/index.htm
WV clubs:
http://www.wvbeekeepers.org/Associations.html
(There's one there in Huntington across the river)

[Scadsobees]

It all depends on your honeyflow.  If you get lots of later goldenrod, then wait a bit.

I am starting about now.  I don't usually get surplus fall honey.  Really, the earlier the better, since strong healthy young mite free bees = much better winter cluster.

You need at least 4 weeks to treat at temps > 60F degees, so keep that in mind.

I close my SBB, but I designed them and they have boards and grooves. Sticking a board under there somehow to minimize drafts can work fine though, if you close them.

Disclaimer: I'm in MI and zone 5/6 so a bit colder than you are in winter.

Rick

[ArmucheeBee]

two of the posts were about screened BB so I'll ask this.  Should those of us in the southeast leave our SBB open during winter (NW GA)?

[Brian D. Bray]

two of the posts were about screened BB so I'll ask this.  Should those of us in the southeast leave our SBB open during winter (NW GA)?

Last year all my hives were SBB and I left them open, they all survived the winter.  This year I've gone completely bottomless and will once again have open bottoms during the winter.  Since my weather here in the PNW is much cooler than yours in NW GA I'd say you can leave the bottoms open all year around like I do.

[ArmucheeBee]

Brian

When you say "bottomless" do you mean no screen or slatted bottom?  What about pests?

[Cindi]

 This year I've gone completely bottomless and will once again have open bottoms during the winter.

Oh my goodness sakes!!!   :shock:  Have a wonderful and awesomely great day, Cindi

[Irwin]

I wonder what he look's like bottomless? :-D :evil:

[ArmucheeBee]

I love literal interpretations, but I don't wonder what he looks like bottomless, only if he has pests without his bottoms!!!! :mrgreen:   If he has pests without his bottoms, he has real problems.

[Brian D. Bray]

Brian

When you say "bottomless" do you mean no screen or slatted bottom?  What about pests?

I use no bottom board, just a slatted rack.  The slatted racks act just lilke a mouse guard. 

I wonder what he look's like bottomless? :-D :evil:

Like a hairball popsicle with hairy handles.  Aren't you glad you asked?

[ArmucheeBee]

Surely you don't go bottomless when you open the hive.  Sounds like the bees might get trapped in all that while trying to land on the handles! :-P

[Cindi]

I wonder what he look's like bottomless? :-D :evil:

like a hairball popsicle with hairy handles.  Aren't you glad you asked?

Oh dear!!!!  Maybe he shouldn't have asked,  ;) :) :) :)  Have a great and wonderful day, love life.  Cindi

[atthelake22]

Oh thank you all so much. Cindy you are so especially welcoming and kind, i so appreciate that and yes it is a wonderful thing my daddy started and it has "infected" me with the intense love of the bees we all so care about, they have become my "pets" per say......and i know that a lot of people think HONEY only tehee...but not this ctry girl i LOVE my bees so thank you for your wonderful answers and ideas and for the information.
All others were so helpful too, I so appreciate your posting to my question. I usually just read the posts and try to pull all my information from there but for some reason this year with the drought and then the rain coming in spurts and the flowers still at it....well i was getting uhm well confused as to "do i do it the way i did last year"
Last year i left all screened bottom boards open and they did great.....I will begin feeding next week and that should last throughout october....
ONE MORE QUESTION>>>DO ALL OF YOU REDUCE TO ONE HIVE BODY????Last year we left 2 hive bodies on for the population of bees inside was so intense i just didn't know how all would "fit" in just one hive body.....perhaps a silly question but please remember i'm still rather new at this and so DESPERATELY want to succeed....
I know to feed 2:1 sugar syrup and that will begin next week. I have a disability hearing this week and just dealing with that is far stressing so don't want to take that anxiety into the bee yard for i feel they can sense our anxities and such silly i know, but when i'm anxious i make more mistakes so best to wait anyway......so next week feeding will begin.....THANK YOU for that information
I have yet ONE MORE QUESTION>>>>last year and i've search the forums someone spoke of feeding back to the bees what they had collected in their supers to put down in their hive bodies the honey that is there....we have far enough honey this year already and i was wondering should i do this??? I know it dealt with turning over the hive inner cover and yet i can't remember if i should remove the queen excluder.....there are a few hives that have collected a good but not massive amounts of honey in the last super on there now and wondered if it would benefit them more to just let them have that honey back...didn't know if i should just put it out and let them clean it out as in the past without a super on so they have no choice but to store it in the hive body....or if to keep each ones OWN super on their hive and feed back to them somehow .....could someone give me the process of doing this????and is it smart to do so????
Okay i will stop picking your brains and hope to hear from someone soon on this....I plan to start removing those last supers this weekend and add on the feeders and sugar water!!! Sad to see the season end but oh they need a rest and this year i think even I need that too!! gives me plenty of time to clean equipment and get ready to go at er again next year.....
THANKS for the information on OVER TREATING the mite situation.....I think I'll use the apistan and sugar shake as usual, and late october do the thymol cords for we often have warm weather up to halloween!!!
thank you so much for all your help guys, this place is AWESOME and can't be beat in knowledge and kindness and you don't know how much that means to those of us just whirling and not sure if we are helping or hurting our precious pets!!!

SINCERELY and with GREAT APPRECIATION
atthelake

[Scadsobees]

I think most people winter in the equivelent of 2 deep bodies.  You can get them in 1 hive body, but either way you need 80 - 120 lbs of stores in there.  What they often do is store the honey in the top, and then fill up the bottom with pollen.  Sometimes I will winter in 2 deeps plus 1 medium if they have uncapped honey stored in the super that I don't know what to do with.  I have a few that I'm going to winter in 1 deep.

You don't need to feed if they have enough honey left in the hives.

As far as medicating and treating the bees for mites...treating them is hard on the bees, I don't think that I'd be doubling up chemicals in one year.  Sugar shakes is fine, just annoying for the bees.

Rick

[Cindi]

Atthelake.  You are a grateful woman, that shines through and that is a wonderful thing.

I overwinter in two boxes, deeps.  Unless the colony is too small when I begin the winter preparations, then only one box is needed.  We have a period of a couple of months where the bees cluster and cannot get around, so they need enough food.  The established amount of stores in our area is 60 pounds, which should last until the bees can get out to obtain food.

You will hear many answers to your questions, and everyone's area is very different from each other.  Good luck, and have the most wonderful and awesome day, Cindi