Wooden or Plastic frames?

[homer]

I only have one beehive and I'm new to it this year.  I bought the solid plastic frames w/foundation from Mann Lake.  They seem so much better than the wooden ones, but everyone that I see around here uses the wooden ones.   Even all the pics on here that I've seen use wooden frames.

Anyway, could someone give me some pros and cons to these two options?

THanks

[Brian D. Bray]

I only have one beehive and I'm new to it this year.  I bought the solid plastic frames w/foundation from Mann Lake.  They seem so much better than the wooden ones, but everyone that I see around here uses the wooden ones.   Even all the pics on here that I've seen use wooden frames.

Anyway, could someone give me some pros and cons to these two options?

THanks

If you plan on using plastic frames you need to do several things: 1. air them out thoroughly, 2. Paint another coat of wax on them with a foam rubber brush, 3. Spray syrup on them when you put them in the hive, and 4. Sharpen you hive tool, you'll be cutting out a lot of bridge and burr comb.

[Robo]

If you use the search function of the forum, you will find many opinions on this issue.   I personally dislike the solid plastic because my frame gripper doesn't hold them well and I find them too flimsy when full of brood and/or honey.  Drop a few full of bees and you'll understand. Wooden frames are much sturdier and easier to handle.

[Tucker1]

Homer:  One of my friends purchased a hive with the plastic frames. The frames were included in a purchase of a Styrofoam hive. He has had problems with lots of burr comb bridging between the frames.  This resulted in his having problems extracting frames from the brood box. The bridging burr comb went from the tops of the frames to the bottoms, which required him to remove several frames at the same time. (A bit tricky.) He will be trying the corrective action proposed by Brian, when he next inspects his hive.

Regards,
Tucker1

[contactme_11]

I only have one beehive and I'm new to it this year.  I bought the solid plastic frames w/foundation from Mann Lake.  They seem so much better than the wooden ones, but everyone that I see around here uses the wooden ones.   Even all the pics on here that I've seen use wooden frames.

Anyway, could someone give me some pros and cons to these two options?

THanks

I've found that the bees will build out better on the wax coated wooden frames. They just seem to like them more.

[Michael Bush]

Some plastic the bees really don't like.  I've had decent luck with the Mann Lake PF 120s (mediums) and PF 100s (Deeps).  They are kind of flimsy but they are also cheap and well accepted and the cell size I want.  On the other hand I've had plastic that the bees just would not draw for anything.  Most people who don't like plastic have had that experience and decided never to use it again.  :)

[johnnybigfish]

 I started with the Dadant EZ frames, sort of what youre talking about, I think. I have five hives with it inside now.It works good for me, but one(ok, a few) words of advice...be sure you mash them all together tightly when putting them in your boxes(deeps). If you dont you will have burr comb, bridge comb, and comb that isnt even attached to the foundation but just hanging down from the edge of the frame like wild natural comb does..I didnt know better at first, but I got those 9 frame spacers and used them in my first deeps.Dont use the spacers in your brood boxes or you'll have the same problem as I did.
 Ok, I know what you mean about everybody else using wood frames...I use them too now, and i plan on staying with them...They are very cheap, sometimes as cheap as 25cents a piece! For me,Making the wood frames and using foundation(I use plastic foundation) was at first intimidating to me, but after I made my first frame and saw how easy it was, I wont go back to EZ frames now. I still like them ok but i wont go back to them. They cost too much!

your friend,
john

[TwT]

  Most people who don't like plastic have had that experience and decided never to use it again.  :)

that describes me, I used it before and my bee's drew it out ok but the same hive would have drawn out 2 deeps of wood and wax foundation in the time they drew out 8 frames of plastic, it has its good points but I am a wood and wax person all the way. Duragilt in my opinion is the worst of the plastic foundation of all, my bee's just don't seem to draw it out on average for me, maybe 50% will be drawn out correctly.

[gottabee]

I was considering giving those plastic frames a try. I have had good luck with plastic foundation. The all plastic frames cost only a few cents more than the unassembled wood frames with plastic foundation. The advice here is very helpful and I will not waste my time and money. A flimsy frame and too much brace comb is enough to change my mind. 
TWT made an excellent point about bees drawing out the plastic wrongly. I have experienced that too. For me probably one frame in 20 has to be reworked. I do like the plastic foundation with wooden frames.
Thanks all.

[ArmucheeBee]

I'll 2nd the MannLake PF120's.  My bees are pulling them out fine.  I bought black first, but did not know about SHB which are hard to see.  Now I'm going to all mediums and bought white.  SHB are easy to find and CRUSH!  I put the plastic between two wooden frames from a cutout and they draw it fine.  Maybe the burr comb is due to the frames not being lined up north to south???   My other hive is lined up east to west and they made burr comb on the plastic, but they make burr every where else too.  I'll move them N_S and see what happens.

[Jim134]

 I am a wood and wax parson all the time.



         BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[NasalSponge]

Wood and wax all the way.....I have never used plastic but there is something unnatural about it to me.

[Scadsobees]

I use and like both.  As mentioned they all have their good and bad points.  You will need to decide what is best for you.

Plastic is admittedly a bit harder to use.  You only want to put on plastic foundation during a flow, and there is some extra work you may want to do before using it.  But it will last forever.  Unless you break it...

Solid Plastic combs
Pros: Cheaper, more reusable, can't be destroyed by moths
Cons: Bees draw it slower, bees sometime comb it all up because of beespace violations, there are spots for SHB to hide.

Wood frames:
Pros: bees like better and will accept it better
Cons: wax moths can chew it, the top and bottom bars will sometime come apart, leaving you with a big chunk of brood that you've got to somehow stuff back into the hives.

You can make your own wooden frames, and I have a lot of homemade ones, you can get plastic frames/foundation for as cheap as $1.50/each or less (Mann lake has/had discount mediums from $1/each).  Considering what it takes to make frames, that is a bargain, considering it is frame and foundation.
Rick

[mlewis48]

 I am a wood and wax person. I have tried everything to get them to draw out the Pierco frames that came with the kits that I got when I got my new hives. I used wax coatings and did all that I could do to get them to draw them out and they would not use them. I won't waste the money on them again!

[Cindi]

Solid Plastic combs
Pros: Cheaper, more reusable, can't be destroyed by moths
Cons:  there are spots for SHB to hide.
Rick

I do not like plastic frames, I have many.  Yes, just like there is places for the small hive beetle to hide, there is an awful lot of places for earwigs to hide too.   We have a horrible earwig issue here.  I am not impressed with the cavities along the sides of the frames with the plastic.  Solid wooden frames is the only way to go.  I am slowly getting rid of my plastic frames, but that is gonna take years.....I mostly have wooden frames.  Beautiful, most wonderful day, Cindi

[poka-bee]

Oh Cindi, I do know about the earwigs, they are everywhere it is dark & damp!  Sometimes if I feel mean I breathe into the inner cover & get the girls riled up..then toss one in... :evil:  I don't think they hurt the bees any but may harm the woodenware?  J

[woodchopper]

Wood and wax all the way.

[winenutguy]

More help for a newbee on a related subject please.  Are wooden frames tough to put together?  I'm the first to admit to being "carpentry challenged".  Any advice?  I'm going to go foundation-less but I'm still going to need to put about of 100 of these things together this winter.  Any tips would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks to all!  Winenutguy.

[buzzbee]

Frame and box assy,sorry they did not upload in order!
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l65/kwrabbit/Beekeeping/Box%20and%20frame%20assy/
I always glue the joints,not dry assemble as shown.Nailing is okay for the first time but a brad nailer might be on my Christmas wish list .It makes the job a whole lot more fun!! ;)

[Cindi]

Ken, I hope that you get your brad nailer for that gift!!!  My Husband loves that thing, I hate that thing.  I hate it because it has to be hooked up to a compressor and that HURTS my ears.  I cannot even stand to be within 5 feet of him when he is nailing, seriously....I think the compression of the air or something causes pain.  I have to use a hammer.  I now have a sore shoulder because I was hammering so much in the chickenyard.  Sorry, off topic...I have to post a picture of something that I built, hee, hee.

I love the wooden frames, I do not like the plastic.  Something about wood, seriously, wood is so like "natural", plastic is crap.  Have the most wonderful and beautiful day, Cindi

[poka-bee]

Cindi, I wear earplugs!  I love my nailer, so fast & doesn't hurt my shoulder like hammering all those nails would!  Winenutguy, if I can put them together, anyone can.  I'm seriously mechanically challenged & managed to put my hives AND frames together...although I can't figure out how to do the bottom boards or migratory tops... :? so I got SBB & telescoping! They don't look like Dr. Seuss houses either!  J.

[Cindi]

Jody, yo' a smart gal.  I know, I should wear ear plugs most of my life, hee, hee.  I will remember to do that thing when I am working with Ken outside.  So good for you that you can wield a gun.  I don't know how you do that thing, the one that my Husband has weighs an awful lot, I don't think that I could do that one handed -- it would take both my arms to work it, maybe I have just become more weak.  Are you strong or something?  Hee, hee, smiling.....I have had a really bad shoulder the past week because of the nailing I did while I was making some new roosts for the chickens.  It almost hurts as much as when I had that severe rotator cuff injury a couple of years ago.  I thought for surely that I had torn the other shoulder too, but that rest at my Daughter's home over the weekend did a world of wonders.  Now I am back and ready for the garden cleanup, hard, killing frost last night, things are all blackened, the work begins.....have that most wonderful, awesome day.  Cindi

PS, look at the next post I am going to make about my chicken coop addition, hee, hee...

[winenutguy]

Hi All.  Well I guess I'm ahead of the game because we do have a compressor.  Does anyone have a favorite brand for a brad gun?  Winenutguy.

[buzzbee]

Winenutguy,
This is the unit my wife bought me at Lowes for my birthday:
http://www.bostitch.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=BOS_FINISH_AND_TRIM_NAILER&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=BT200K-2&SDesc=2%22+18-Gauge+Oil-Free+Brad+Nailer+Kit

I've used it on frames and boxes,just be sure to use a quality all weather wood glue!!
 When you put top bars on the frames,put one nail down through the top bar into the side bar and one nail in from the side through the side bar into the top bar. that way when you need to pry frames upward,the top bar has a tougher time pulling off the sides if the frame is really propolized into the hive box.
  Cindi:
This will quiet the nailer up:
http://www.elvex.com/ear-muffs-start.htm
Or maybe you can get a longer hose to get further from the compressor!

[Brian D. Bray]

More help for a newbee on a related subject please.  Are wooden frames tough to put together?  I'm the first to admit to being "carpentry challenged".  Any advice?  I'm going to go foundation-less but I'm still going to need to put about of 100 of these things together this winter.  Any tips would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks to all!  Winenutguy.

Remember the frame jig I showed you for making frames?  Buy your frames, bring them down, and We'll put them together using the jig.  I'll also show you how to do the popsicle sticks for foundationless frames.    Such a Deal, you shouldn't refuse.

Hi All.  Well I guess I'm ahead of the game because we do have a compressor.  Does anyone have a favorite brand for a brad gun?  Winenutguy.

I use the cheapo from Harbor Freight Tools...$19.95.  If you get the Brad Nailer/Stapler combo you  have every thing you need to build frames, hive bodies, super, tops, bottoms, etc.   Brads and Nails in both 1 inch and 1 1/2 inch are all you need.

[winenutguy]

Thank you all!  Brian I won't refuse!  I'll take you up on your kind offer.  I'll let you know when I get my boxes and frames.  I'm still getting a brad stapler though.  Thank you BuzzBee for the tip.  I'll put that down on my xmas wish list.  Best to all. Winenutguy

[Michael Bush]

>Are wooden frames tough to put together?  I'm the first to admit to being "carpentry challenged".

Not "tough" just tedious.  A frame jig and a stapler make it quite easy.  I'd take Brian up and save a lot of expense.

[Cindi]

Oh I wish that I lived closer to Brian, I would love to have him show me how to do carpentry stuff, too.  Have that most wonderfully awesome and healthy day, Cindi

[johnnybigfish]

I was intimidated by frames at the beginning.
 But after i made one frame, I realized how easy it is! And so much cheaper than the plastic frames I started with!

your friend,
john

[JP]

All wood frames here.


...JP

[Scadsobees]

I do not like plastic frames, I have many.  Yes, just like there is places for the small hive beetle to hide, there is an awful lot of places for earwigs to hide too.  Cindi

Interesting, I've always considered my yard to be the earwig capital of the world.  I never have earwigs hiding INSIDE the hive.  Inner cover, outer cover, underneath, space between boxes, and stinkin' little crack they can cram their nasty beastly stinking bodies into, but not in the frames.  Oh..did I mention that I don't really like earwigs.....

I wasn't really intimidated by the thought of making wooden frames, but after making 200 of them I don't have any more interested in making another stupid frame. :-D  Plastic frames are sooo much easier....

Rick

[johnnybigfish]

When we were kids we were told that earwigs crawled into your ears and ate your brain!
your friend,
john

[Brian D. Bray]

I do not like plastic frames, I have many.  Yes, just like there is places for the small hive beetle to hide, there is an awful lot of places for earwigs to hide too.  Cindi

Interesting, I've always considered my yard to be the earwig capital of the world.  I never have earwigs hiding INSIDE the hive.  Inner cover, outer cover, underneath, space between boxes, and stinkin' little crack they can cram their nasty beastly stinking bodies into, but not in the frames.  Oh..did I mention that I don't really like earwigs.....

I wasn't really intimidated by the thought of making wooden frames, but after making 200 of them I don't have any more interested in making another stupid frame. :-D  Plastic frames are sooo much easier....

Rick

There are 2 things I no longer find in my bee hives since I've changed to bottomless hives and migratory tops (upside down solid bottom boards); Ants and earwigs.   Both now stay down on the ground as everything they want from a bee hive now falls at their feet.  2 other critters that have gone missing are varroa mites and SHB. 

[BjornBee]

To the original question...I favor wood frames. I can not tell you why other than that they feel and handle better. The plastic frames just seem cheap or somehow not right. With that said....I have been known to slap in a bit of pierco plactic foundation in those wooden frames. :roll:

[Romahawk]

I prefer wood also. The plastic frames I have tried have thinner top bars and the bees seem to like to fill the difference in space with lots of burr comb, Grrrrrrr....   :-x

[ikeepbees]

I love to experiment. As a result I've tried way to many different ideas, things, methods, etc. in my beekeeping career. When it comes to frames, I've tried solid plastic frames (Pierco, EZ, and another brand I can't identify that I received through a buyout), wood frames with plastic, wood frames with wired, unwired brood, and unwired comb wax, and wood frames with no foundation.

As an aside, I still haven't tried the 7/11 foundation offered by Kelley. Michael Bush has spoken of it on the other forum. I don't think they offer it wired, and if I use foundation I prefer wired. But I still want to try it.

If I use plastic foundation, I prefer it in a wooden frame. The downsides I see to the solid plastic frames are:
 - Flimsy, as mentioned earlier.
 - My experience is that there will ALWAYS be burr/bridge comb between the top bars and whatever is above them.
 - I use one of those lever type hive tools rather than a frame grabber or standard hive tool - much too often the ears of the plastic frames break, rendering it essentially useless.