Huge swarm caught & hived-honey potential??

[challenger]

I caught a swarm yesterday that was huge. I'm not very experienced in such things but have seen quite a few swarms and this one I would describe as the size of at least 4 3bl packages. I hived them yesterday but they are in a 10 frame deep box with only 4 frames of plain foundation. I didn't feel like there was room for any more frames without creating a crowded condition and putting more frames in would have forced me to make room by moving bees out of the way. What should I do next? Today they seem like they or OK with their new home and there are a lot of bees taking orientation flights but I put and entrance reducer in the front to be safe and wonder if I should make the entrance larger. Also how do I go about adding the 6 add'l frames?
I was thinking a swarm this big could produce a crop of honey this year but would like some opinion on this as well. I know they will need to expend a lot of energy on building comb etc. but isn't the swarm that has left a hive full of "resources" needed to create a new hive? I can't see trying to feed them because we are in a major flow right now.
I've also been told that a swarm is "not desirable" because "the queen is old and all the bees are foragers and won't live too much longer". Any input on these claims and or ideas is greatly appreciated.
Thanks-Howard

[Ross]

Put 10 frames in the box.  Do it NOW.  If they need more room, give them another box with 10 frames as well.  If you don't have the box full of frames, they will draw wax elsewhere and make a mess. ultimately they waste the resource because you have to cut it out and they have to fix it.   A big swarm like that can draw comb in a hurry will have plenty of foragers.

[JP]

First off, no offense but I'm guessing your swarm to be 5-6lbs of bees, which is a good sized swarm but there is no way on earth 4, 3lb packages would fit into one deep.

If they are very crowded you need to add another box, if not too crowded then put the four frames back in.

Wait and see on the queen until she starts laying to place judgement on her abilities.

This hive could perhaps make honey for you this season.


...JP

[G3farms]

I agree stick the rest of the frames in there, that will give them something to work on. If they feel crowded again or think there is not going to be enough room they could try to swarm again, have seen this.

G3

[iddee]

The frames you put in there will be ignored. They prefer to hang their own comb. They will have started free hanging comb before you can get to them this morning.
NEVER, NEVER leave open space in a hive during wax making season.

[asprince]

I caught a huge swarm early this spring. They drew out 20 frames of wax in about ten days! I added a super and they filled it in a matter if days. Despite my efforts to add supers, they surprised me by swarming.

So, give them plenty of room, they are wax drawing machines! Divide later if necessary. And yes, they can make you some honey.

Steve   

[challenger]

I'll go out there today and add the 6 add'l frames. I know it sounds impossible for a swarm to be the size of 4 packages and perhaps it is my lack of experience but it took 2 trips up the ladder to get the bees. The first shake was into a single, empty deep migratory box that filled at least 1/3 deep with bees before I covered it. Then they clustered again on the limb after about 30 minutes so I suspect the queen was still on the limb so I went up again and shook whatever I could into a 5 gallon pail with a lid tied to a string. this bucket filled up at least 1/3 the way and must have had the queen because the bees were all flying around the bucket after I closed it. There was another small cluster that reformed on the branch but they thinned out after about 1/2 hour and were just flying around. I can't say for sure what the amount of bees were but I know there had to be no less than 3 packages worth-maybe 4 was out of line. I could easily feel the add'l weight in the empty deep and the bucket as well. Before dumping them into their new home I did what I read in the book I got with my first started kit from Kelly's and wet them down to the point where only a few could fly using sugar water and that made them compact and flat on the bottom of both the box and the bucket. It was only for a few moments to help consolidate the bees and they were huge in numbers/depth while wet and stuck to the bottom. The packages I've done like this might be 3" deep with wet bees after being knocked to the bottom prior to dumping out and the deep had at least 2" deep and the bucket 1 1/2" and that is alot more area than the bottom of a package box. Still all I can do is guess.



Thanks for the great tips.
Howard

[asprince]

If all the bees won't fit in a single deep with frames and foundation, give them another deep. If they are crowded from the start, they will leave. It won't hurt to feed them some syrup for a few days until they get some wax drawn.

Keep us posted on the progress. 

Steve

[TwT]

well look at it this away, I caught a swarm a few days ago that took two deeps to hold and they were still crowded, it want take a week and I will add a super, large swarms need room or they will leave again, give them the room they need. I locked them in this hive by adding a frame of young brood and a queen excluder under the bottom deep, after 3 days I took it out and they working like crazy...

[1reb]

Congratulations, Howard on catching a swarm

Johnny

[challenger]

Great advice here. I went out this AM and they were all over each other and had built enough hanging comb to make a tennis size ball of wax after squeezing out the nectar. What they had built on the foundation was amazing and they had a fair amount of the four frames with pollen and nectar in it.
I put 6 frames in it while a lot of the bees were out foraging and it was a real task making them fit without removing bees. As it was there was a ton of bees off to the side on a frame I took out and a huge amount on the inside of the inner cover. Later toward evening I took another look and they were really crowded and spilling out of the front and bunches were on the top bars so I added another 10 frame deep. I have yet to see the queen and hopefully they will stay around-it seems like they are setting up house?
After another week or so I'll hopefully see some eggs/larvae.
BTW-from my other hives I had to remove some comb that they built where It would have made a real mess so I spaced the frames out better and took the comb which had some capped honey. They honey was a real light color and I sucked it all out like I normally do. This is some of the best I've tasted. I think the Galberry and Tullip Poplar are kicking big time now. I could sit there and chew comb for hours watching them work and they are super gentle right now. I did the swarm frames & additional box and frames with no veil and only a bit of smoke. I would have thought they would be a little mean after what they went through yesterday but maybe they are stoned on nectar?
Anyway I think the advice here saved me a lot of work at minimum and a lost swarm at worst so thanks again.
Howard

[G3farms]

when there is a flow on and they are still setting up house, they really don't have time for you unless you make them mad (with the exception of them black german bees I used to have years ago).

Sounds like you caught them in time before they mad a real mess.

Good luck with them.

G3

[challenger]

Sounds like you caught them in time before they mad a real mess.

G3

Yes-thanks to posters here. If I waited another day I think there would have been a full deep of hanging comb.
As soon as I can see they have a brood pattern and plenty of stores I will add a honey super. Maybe there will still be a flow?