Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => DISEASE & PEST CONTROL => Topic started by: LivelyHive on July 24, 2010, 10:08:59 pm

Title: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: LivelyHive on July 24, 2010, 10:08:59 pm
Hello,
This critter was crawling around the hive entrance around some of his shriveled friends. :-P The bees seem to be ignoring them, but they look frighteningly like SHB larvae. The hive is strong, it looks like I need to do an inspection. What are my best non-chem treatment options?




http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter,nsf/WebPages/EGIL-5G95PA?open (http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter,nsf/WebPages/EGIL-5G95PA?open)

http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/disorders/small-hive-beetle.html (http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/disorders/small-hive-beetle.html)

http://www.devonbeekeepers.org.uk/bees5b.html (http://www.devonbeekeepers.org.uk/bees5b.html)
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: doak on July 24, 2010, 10:16:20 pm
oil traps using cooking oil.  :)doak
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on July 24, 2010, 10:20:04 pm
Use your thumb and kill everyone you find.  I like to use beetle barns and a ground drench.  I cleaned out my oil trays on Thursday.   They were full of wax particles, beetles, bees, and lots of pollen.  Took the torch to it to kill out all the maggots in there.  It burned for hours.   The wife wanted to know what all that black stuff was and why was it burning.  I told her it was lightning strike.   She would buy it.   Now I need about 15 more gallons of oil.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: doak on July 25, 2010, 12:19:54 am
I tried the bottom trays and switched to the little top ones, bees don't seem to get in and it takes very little oil. they fit between two frames. no wax debris to amount to anything. :)doak
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: jclark96 on August 22, 2010, 09:01:01 pm
From my battle last year, kill all of them you find (If they are to bad take the hive apart and kill all that you find.), don't let the worms get to the ground (get chickens or guinea hens), keep your hives strong.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Sparky on August 22, 2010, 10:06:06 pm
Here is a handy trap that works well.
http://beetlejail.com/products-page/beetle-jail/beetle-jail-jr/ (http://beetlejail.com/products-page/beetle-jail/beetle-jail-jr/)
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: dennis2021 on September 17, 2010, 12:19:08 pm
From my battle last year, kill all of them you find (If they are to bad take the hive apart and kill all that you find.), don't let the worms get to the ground (get chickens or guinea hens), keep your hives strong.

How many do you have around how many hives? Questions is.... How many does it take to be effective? Guineas or chickens or combo?
Do gunieas eat bees, do bees care about/bothered by our fathered friends?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Mason on October 07, 2010, 05:02:57 pm
I poison them and take the traps out if there is a potential for a honey harvest.  There are virtually no SHB in my hives and I think the bees really appreciate it.  For me it was a question as to if I was a beekeeper or a honey producer.  I figured if my hives died because I didn't control the SHB...what's the point?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 07, 2010, 05:52:29 pm
I understand what you mean.   But there are a lot of people that don't like the idea of roach poison anywhere near the bees.   
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Culley on October 07, 2010, 09:03:18 pm
My home made cooking oil traps have been catching 40-60 in the first day and then about 20-25 a day, soon dwindling down to 3-5 a day depending on infestation. There's still beetles running around in the hive though. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any info about beetle populations. How many do you need to kill in what time frame to keep the hives afloat?
I understand the larvae will hatch and boom the population.
Also the beetles fly in in late afternoon. Where do they come from?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 07, 2010, 10:00:48 pm
I know that when the beetles come out of the soil, they do not have to live in a bee hive.   They can eat pollen and fruit off the plants.    They just use the hive to reproduce and if the hive has food for them and they can get to it easy, they will take up in that hive.   I think they fly all the time of the day or night, but most say at night.   Stop them in the hive before they lay eggs is the best way to keep the population down.  Then kill them in the ground with gardstar as a second measure.  Just some thoughts on SHB.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Culley on October 08, 2010, 01:07:35 am
If each larvae becomes one beetle, there is no way the population explosion I'm witnessing is from an isolated population. They must be flying in. If there are other infested hives in my area, no amount of in-hive control would necessarily dent the beetle population.
What about catching them as they fly in? I'm aware of the beetle jail traps.
Are there other ways to catch them as they come flying in in the evening?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 08, 2010, 03:24:18 am
You can make a PVC tube trap and place it outside the hive, but that just shows there are SHB in you area.   They are still going to get into the hive.   You can also place a oil trap under your hive.  Either under a screen bottom or they make one trap, all black plastic that goes over the bottom board.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Mason on October 08, 2010, 01:34:51 pm
If your not going to be pulling any honey off....just kill them.  That way you will have the healthiest hive possible going into winter.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Bee Happy on October 08, 2010, 02:04:49 pm
full sun, and some kind of oil filled trap - I had the west on one hive, and the other hives were SBB, the west trap and the SBB with fire ants on the ground below didn't have a problem with infestation. I had one SBB that had an undesireable SHB population, (no trap, no ants, poor sun) so that hive is being relocated, possibly over an anthill. (the trick is to make sure the ants can't get into the hive itself) Under the hive they will eat the SHB larvae, in the hive is just trouble.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Culley on October 08, 2010, 10:23:39 pm
If your not going to be pulling any honey off....just kill them.  That way you will have the healthiest hive possible going into winter.

If you're using roach poison, why would you not want to use this trap during a honey harvest? Is there potential to contaminate the honey?

Wouldn't there be a risk then that you'd contaminate the honey that the bees are eating and feeding to their brood?

----
Edit: Just read this (http://www.pnas.org/content/104/20/8374.long) very interesting study about bee alarm pheremones and SHB.
Among many interesting points are;
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: hardwood on October 08, 2010, 10:26:02 pm
Yes

Scott
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: hardwood on October 08, 2010, 10:26:40 pm
Yes.

Scott
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Mason on October 11, 2010, 01:38:28 pm
Quote
If you're using roach poison, why would you not want to use this trap during a honey harvest? Is there potential to contaminate the honey

Personally I think that it is such a tiny amount of poison and contained in the trap I doubt there would be any significant contamination at any time.  However,  some people are very adverse to using any chemicals on their hives at any time.  To the point they will watch a hive die out instead of doing what needs to be done to give them a chance.  For me I look at it as a balance.  If the beetles get out of control the hive will die.  One or two of those little traps with a tiny bead of the poison completely eliminates them.  If I start seeing them again I put in another trap and a week later take it out.  Beetles done.....  As a precaution I would take the traps out several weeks before harvest.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: tecumseh on October 12, 2010, 08:05:24 am
Livelyhives writes:
What are my best non-chem treatment options?

tecumseh:
1) remove infected comb and freeze for 24 hours.  pay special attention to any comb with a lot of pollen (<think shb on steroids).   any web track thru the comb means the comb should be frozen.  after freezing the comb is reusable.

2) if the hive is weak feed some (doesn't normally require a lot).

3) in some situation boost hives with a frame or so of capped brood.

4) anything that falls to the bottom board burn (ie do not scrape unto the ground).
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: L Daxon on October 13, 2010, 12:24:48 am
Is it worth keeping a beetle trap on in the winter.  Are those little bugs active then or do they hibernate during the winter months?  Go underground?  Surely they don't have free reign of the hive while the bees are clustered up tight.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: tecumseh on October 13, 2010, 08:21:34 am
when the weather cools they move even slower than the honeybees.  they ain't so much fun to squash then since they are such an easy target.

Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Culley on October 13, 2010, 08:40:28 am
Do they shut down breeding over the cooler months, and do they do this even in warmer areas?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 13, 2010, 11:01:07 am
SHB will be in the winter cluster with the bees.   If you ever clean out a hive that froze over the winter, you will be amazed where you find them. 
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Anybrew on October 16, 2010, 02:30:02 am
Hi Guys, I am new to this site and read with interest that some of you use self contained cochroach traps as one way of controlling SHB or did I read this wrong. I think "Mason" has used them it the past is that right and can they be used to control a nasty invasion whilst I wait for my Beetle Jails to arrive from the good ol USA.

Cheers
Steve
Australia
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 16, 2010, 10:09:40 am
BEEKEEPING,Bees,SMALL HIVE BEETLES,Beetle trap filling,install Beekeepers Honeybees Beehives Georgia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0mO-cYTZ58#)

Here is what I think you are looking for.   And here is another beetle trap some are using.

Making Small Hive BeetleTraps with the "FatBeeMan" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_KDPp8H6PU#)

Note, these poisons are not approved inside the hive in the US.  (disclaimer added)
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 16, 2010, 04:44:58 pm
Check out the oil trays for SHB.   Here is a west trap with oil.
hive beetle infestation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibbEY2J9kfY#)
Here is another oil trap with oil.

Freeman Beetle Trap Design (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHsOl9C3Jis#)

I have them both but use the freeman trap the most because you can just buy the trays and use your SBB and a solid bottom.  (cheaper)
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Anybrew on October 16, 2010, 06:25:38 pm
Hi AllenF,
Good info mate, I really like that small trap in the first clip that the guy slides into the entrance where do you get those from??? I would love to purchase some and what bait does he put in them??

Cheers
Steve
Ausralia
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: KD4MOJ on October 16, 2010, 07:22:47 pm
Probably this or a variant:

(http://aprs.cc/images/maxforce.jpg)


Contains Fipronil which is not approved for hives... but it does work.

...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Anybrew on October 16, 2010, 08:05:07 pm
Thanks Doug, I will see if its available in Aussie Land.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 16, 2010, 09:26:26 pm
Here is the beetle barn from the first clip.   http://www.gabees.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=571&osCsid=13f54d76a1537115baa9801b597a1704 (http://www.gabees.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=571&osCsid=13f54d76a1537115baa9801b597a1704)   They run a dollar (US) a piece when you buy in bulk.   
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 16, 2010, 09:47:47 pm
And just to let everyone know, Checkmite is only approved for use in the beetle barns (or under cardboard strips and elsewhere in the hive) to kill Small Hive Beetles.  http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Check-Mite-Plus-10-Strips/productinfo/481/ (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Check-Mite-Plus-10-Strips/productinfo/481/)
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 16, 2010, 10:10:21 pm
How to apply to the card board strips to the checkmite (using metric measurements for those downunder  ;)).
Prepare a piece of corrugated cardboard by peeling off and removing the surface of one side to expose the flutes within the cardboard. Cut the cardboard to approximately 22.5 cm along the flutes by 10 cm wide (across the flutes). Tape over the smooth side of the cardboard (the side opposite the flutes) with duct tape, shipping tape or similar tape to prevent the bees from chewing and removing cardboard, or use one-sided plastic corrugated sheets. Staple one strip of CheckMite+™ onto the centre of the corrugated side of the cardboard.

Place cardboard insert fitted with CheckMite+™ strips as near the centre of the bottom board as possible with the strip facing down, parallel to the width of the hive. Make sure the bottom board is clean and the insert lays flat on the bottom board. This allows the beetles to walk through the tunnels, but it prevents the bees from walking under the insert and being exposed to CheckMite+™. For detection, leave the strips in the hive for one week, then check for the presence of dead beetles. For treatment, leave the strips in the hive for a minimum of 42 days and a maximum of 45 days. DO NOT TREAT THE SAME COLONY WITH COUMAPHOS MORE THAN TWICE A YEAR. Honey supers may be replaced 14 days after strips are removed.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Mason on October 19, 2010, 01:03:37 pm
Quote
Contains Fipronil which is not approved for hives... but it does work.

This is what I use in the plastic corrugated traps. I slit them half way through with a razor blade,  apply poison in the center and seal them back up with black electrical tape leaving the holes on the end open.

Last year I was completely infested with beetles.  Several of these traps and a few days later not a single beetle in the hives with scores of them dead out front.  I do feel that it is possible under normal breeding conditions to control beetle populations with less chemically intrusive measures however more drastic circumstances call for more drastic measures.  If the beetles get out from under you for whatever reason this is a great way to regain control.

Beetles check in....then completely check out
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: tecumseh on October 20, 2010, 08:07:59 am
a kd4/doug  snip..
Contains Fipronil which is not approved for hives... but it does work.

tecumseh:
I am not familiar with the product.  could you provide some further explanation?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: KD4MOJ on October 20, 2010, 08:31:23 am

tecumseh:
I am not familiar with the product.  could you provide some further explanation?

Quote
From the Wiki Fipronil is a broad spectrum insecticide that disrupts the insect central nervous system by blocking the passage of chloride ions through the GABA receptor and glutamate-gated chloride channels (GluCl), components of the central nervous system.

  Mainly used in roach bait. Next time you are in Walmart, Home Depot or Lowes, check out the section where you purchase ant and roach stuff and you will see the tubes. the Maxforce just contains a greater percentage of the active ingredient Fipronil.


  Again it's not approved in the USA. I did an experiment on a test hive using Checkmite in one beetle barn and the "gel" in another and it does work well. But I would not use it on a production hive.

...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: fish_stix on October 20, 2010, 01:34:17 pm
The key to using Fipronil is to use a system which the bees cannot get to, but the SHB can. That's why you use the Beetle Barns or the corrugated plastic signboard traps. Fipronil is approved for use in food prep areas so I take that to mean there is no harmful fumes or residue that the bees can be harmed by. In Central FL we use traps or quit the beekeeping business; there is no alternative. We have one day hives and two day hives; meaning the time it takes for beetles to get in the hives in significant numbers. Some yards are worse than others but we have a MAJOR, MAJOR problem with SHB everywhere. Unprotected, our hives will be inundated with SHB larva in 1-2 weeks, yearround. For those who haven't experienced this pest, that means loss of the hive, as the bees abscond when the larva have taken over a couple frames. The Fipronil works extremely well, very few beetles make it back out of the trap; in fact, the signboard traps seem to retain the beetles even better than the Beetle Barns. I hate any kind of chemicals in my hives, but I also really like having bees to work with, so it's not an option to fail to protect them.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 20, 2010, 03:06:32 pm
  Again it's not approved in the USA. I did an experiment on a test hive using Checkmite in one beetle barn and the "gel" in another and it does work well. But I would not use it on a production hive.

...DOUG
KD4MOJ


Which one killed more beetles, the checkmite or the "gel"?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Anybrew on October 21, 2010, 12:13:41 am
Hi guys thanks for the advice re SHB, I went this way with my hives, after seeing all the SHB running about I decided to attack them hard and fast.  First with my hive tool, boy are they quick.
Then I adapted some Coachroach baits by squashing them and taping them up so the Bee's couldn't get in them and I also got some roach gel and gave each one a squirt in the baits as well.

I placed the baits at the back of the hives in the corners,that was sunday.

Tuesday I went around my hives just for a quick look, I didn't see any dead SHB and only saw one running beetle who was quickly squashed.

I will leave the baits in for about 10 weeks to try and break the breeding cycle.
ps, the Bee's appear not to care at all about the baits and I haven't seen an increase in dead bee's at the front of the hives.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 21, 2010, 05:52:44 pm
In a few weeks the bees will have the holes to your beetle traps glued shut.   You will have to keep the holes open.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Anybrew on October 22, 2010, 12:38:53 am
Well, I didn't think about that! thanx.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Culley on October 22, 2010, 06:24:41 am
My traps with holes drilled through the bottom boards keep getting clogged. Mostly it's cardboard starter strips the bees are removing  :( but there's also wax, pollen, bee legs etc.
Took some advice from the forum and packed down all the hives with spare room, took boxes off some. It has already made a huge difference, but the traps are making a difference too.

Let us know how they do for you, Steve.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Mason on October 22, 2010, 01:36:35 pm
Quote
The key to using Fipronil is to use a system which the bees cannot get to, but the SHB can

I prefer to use the plastic corrugated traps and just throw them out when they are clogged.  I have made some reusable traps with the same chemical out of CD cases.  Some already have small holes in the edges or you could just drill some small holes in the edges that the bees can't fit through.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: David McLeod on October 31, 2010, 10:30:19 pm
Anyone use the entrance traps? I have been checking out the beetle jail trap and it looks like that one combined with a SBB trap andnot allowing any other openings into the hive should be a good first line of defense. Opinions?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 31, 2010, 11:04:18 pm
They will crawl down the front of the bottom box and into the entrance from the top, upside down and never touch the SBB.   Seen it.  But you need to kill them in the hive.  Try everything in there.  And don't forget to drench the ground with Gardstar to kill them before they come out of the ground.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: David McLeod on October 31, 2010, 11:15:42 pm
Yeah, I planned to use the guardstar but I wonder if the nematodes are effective as well. I guess one can't use both. I also planned on sheet tin under the boxes as well. I have several sections of the heavy guage stuff used for pouring concrete that will get pretty hot in the sun.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on October 31, 2010, 11:43:09 pm
I have heard that SHB larvae will crawl 200 yards across  concrete and fire ants can't stop them.  They are just unreal.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Culley on November 01, 2010, 01:25:51 am
I just caught 66 from one hive in 24 hours.  :(

Has anyone tried the CoRal with natural soy oil on paper towels method or know about it?
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Anybrew on November 02, 2010, 01:35:23 am
I went around my Hives yesterday and I could'nt find and SHB I looked real hard and the girls were pleased when I finally left them alone.  All my commercial roach baits are still intact and not waxed up which is surprising.

Today my Beetle Jails arrived from the USA I am very pleased they took no time to get here and look tops.
I will load them up with cheap vege oil and place them in the hives on my next inspection.

So far so good.

Cheers
Steve

Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: KD4MOJ on November 03, 2010, 10:34:51 am
AllenF:

 The Gel had more SHB... but this really wasn't a scientific study. The Gels were placed on top of the inner cover and the Checkmite was on the SBB... could have just been more SHB up top at the point in time.

...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: AllenF on November 03, 2010, 12:10:38 pm
AllenF:

 The Gel had more SHB... but this really wasn't a scientific study. The Gels were placed on top of the inner cover and the Checkmite was on the SBB... could have just been more SHB up top at the point in time.

...DOUG
KD4MOJ


Maybe this spring we can do a test here.  But it would be nice to see which way there is out there to kill the most beetles.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: hardwood on November 03, 2010, 01:03:12 pm
I've been toying with several baits/traps for SHB. I'm currently trying a system recommended by the Ag folks down under that uses a thin square of plywood that is coated on the underside with D.E. and propped up a little with a Popsicle stick. The thought being that the hive beetle will crawl under it to hide and the D.E. cuts into its antennae.

I just started the trials last week and have no results yet but I'm encouraged.

Scott
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Sparky on November 03, 2010, 08:43:07 pm
Anyone use the entrance traps? I have been checking out the beetle jail trap and it looks like that one combined with a SBB trap andnot allowing any other openings into the hive should be a good first line of defense. Opinions?

The entrance traps are nice but price adds up quickly if you have more than a couple of hives. The groove around the actual bee entrance channels the beetles not to have a opening into the hive and to fall into the oil reservoir. Nice, well thought out design. With the combination of the entrance trap and the frame hung beetle jail traps the beetles should be well controlled if the other openings are closed. I use some fruit in the center of the three chambers of the frame hung beetle jail as bait and they have worked well. I hope they never become as bad as the folks deal with in the more southern regions.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: beyersgrt on November 01, 2011, 04:32:44 am
Please explain
SHB = Small Hive Beetle
SBB = ???
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: ShaneJ on November 01, 2011, 05:46:06 am
Screened Bottom Board

Shane
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: KD4MOJ on November 01, 2011, 08:43:20 am
Lots of acronyms used here! :)

...DOUG
KD4MOJ


Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: beyersgrt on November 02, 2011, 03:09:51 am
Thanks
Newbee status is evident.

Ordered the screen this morning. For SBB :) and trap out.

The cd case trap is a beautiful idea. I see in numerous vid clips that maxpro paste is used. This is not available in South Africa. What alternative can be used or what are the active ingredients of maxpro.
The other roach baits I could find clearly state that they must not be used near foorstuffs.
Beyers
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Sparky on November 09, 2011, 08:51:13 pm
A local commercial beek has been using Diatomaceous earth in trays under his sbb's and he says that when they fall into it they just wander around in circles and die because of it getting on their antennas and they cannot navigate.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: TheHeavyJ on February 15, 2013, 02:10:01 pm
Hey, I did a search on Google for SHB and fipronil and landed here.
I recognize it is not approved for use in a USA hive.
That being said, I recognized it is the active ingredient in an ant trap that you can get at the grocery store.
The opening is too small for bees. I might put some on my SBB (screened bottom board) and see how they do.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: mroark on February 22, 2013, 04:11:31 pm
I tried lots of things last year. I had some of the barns which seemed to work initially but later in the season the beetles appeared to ignore the traps. I took to banging them off frames into soapy water to keep the numbers down. I do hope I can keep a better handle on things this year.
Title: Re: small hive beetles and advice
Post by: Linda32 on March 23, 2013, 08:55:06 am
I don't know really about this but i have heard at somewhere that using an oil trap will help you great. The oil must be a cooking oil. I don't know about other oils so that i only suggest you what i heard. This is from my cousin who try this. And he said that it was very effected to me.