new bee questions

[FRAMEshift]

I pick up bits and pieces of bee lore that I don't understand yet.  So I have a couple of questions and this forum seems like a good place to get  it sorted out.

1.  I keep reading about bees laying down white wax.  I know that bees making new comb are making wax that is white.  But do they ever make any other color?  When do they make wax other than white wax?  If they only make white wax, why do folks keep referring to new wax as white... isn't that obvious?

2.  I know that the whole point of the Langstroth system is to be able to move frames around.  But can they be reversed in the hive?  I mean, can you pull out a frame that has...say... brood comb in it and rotate that frame 180 degrees in the horizontal plane and put it back in?  Is there a directionality to the frame or is it the same in every direction?  Could you turn the comb upside down  in the frame(rotate 180 degrees in the vertical plane) and put it back in?

Sorry if these seem like silly questions but I haven't found the answers elsewhere.

[MrJeff]

Why would you flip a frame upside down and put it back in? First of all it wouldn't fit, secondly all of the cells would probably drain into the bottom of the hive when not capped.

[iddee]

1. Saying white wax, yellow wax, or black wax is not saying color as much as it is stating the age of the wax.

2. The comb is NOT the same in all directions. Each cell is made with a slant and other features that make it unique. Queens will not lay eggs in upside down cells. Reversing frames horizontally will be accepted, but is not considered a good idea. In other words, the negative of doing so is minimal, to the point most don't bother being concerned.

3. There are Carolina's all over the world. Please post a better location in your profile.

[FRAMEshift]

1. Saying white wax, yellow wax, or black wax is not saying color as much as it is stating the age of the wax.
Ok, so bees generally make white wax (or yellow depending on pollen incorporation) and the darker waxes are the result of accumulation of contaminants over time.  Is that right?

2. The comb is NOT the same in all directions. Each cell is made with a slant and other features that make it unique. Queens will not lay eggs in upside down cells. Reversing frames horizontally will be accepted, but is not considered a good idea. In other words, the negative of doing so is minimal, to the point most don't bother being concerned.
Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.  :-D

3. There are Carolina's all over the world. Please post a better location in your profile.
Done.

[iddee]

All wax is created white. It yellows with age and contaminants.
Thanks, and welcome to the forum. Drop by sometime if you are in the Greensboro area.

[FRAMEshift]

Thanks, and welcome to the forum. Drop by sometime if you are in the Greensboro area.
Thanks.  Actually I live in Madison, north of Greensboro so I might be able to come visit you sometime.  I'm helping my daughter with her new hive in Carrboro.  I'm thinking about getting my own hives next year.

[iddee]

Rockingham County has a great bee club. It meets monthly in Wentworth. You should try to make a few meetings. Lot of good folks there. Visitors are welcome.

1st Thursday, 7:00 PM
Rockingham Ag Ctr, 525 NC Hwy 65, Reidsville    Harvey Friddle  
(336) 210-0144

[FRAMEshift]

1st Thursday is tomorrow. Good timing.  Thanks for the info.  I will check it out.

[luvin honey]

All wax is created white. It yellows with age and contaminants.

This is what I thought until I opened my new colonies tonight. They were both building new wax 2 days after installation. And all the wax was a golden brown color, like you would expect from wax a few months old that had been through a few brood cycles.

Do bees recycle wax? Could they be breaking it down from the old comb in the hive and rebuilding it where they want it to be? I was shocked!

[iddee]

If you installed packages, the bees are older than normal wax makers. They may make a darker wax then younger bees, I don't know.

Yes, they will re-use wax at times.

[Ollie]

2.  I know that the whole point of the Langstroth system is to be able to move frames around.  But can they be reversed in the hive?  I mean, can you pull out a frame that has...say... brood comb in it and rotate that frame 180 degrees in the horizontal plane and put it back in?  Is there a directionality to the frame or is it the same in every direction?  Could you turn the comb upside down  in the frame(rotate 180 degrees in the vertical plane) and put it back in?

Make it easy on your self, when I build frame, one end has 2 nails through the top bar, the other only one, they all live the same way in the hives. For a while when I started I was running plastic frames, I had a cross etched on one end on the top of the frame.
Makes it easy to remember which way the frames live.
Also I write on the top of the bar P for pollen, H for Honey and B for brood, a little arrow points to the side where H, B or P is. It makes life easier when you go back in a couple of weeks later to see changes. Carpenters pencil works well.
A little sandpaper remove the marks at the end of the season or when it get's full and confusing.

[FRAMEshift]

Make it easy on your self, when I build frame, one end has 2 nails through the top bar, the other only one, they all live the same way in the hives. For a while when I started I was running plastic frames, I had a cross etched on one end on the top of the frame.
Makes it easy to remember which way the frames live.
Also I write on the top of the bar P for pollen, H for Honey and B for brood, a little arrow points to the side where H, B or P is. It makes life easier when you go back in a couple of weeks later to see changes. Carpenters pencil works well.
a little sandpaper remove the marks at the end of the season or when it get's full and confusing.

I had thought of that too.   Iddee says most people don't worry about it.  What are you worried about if you reverse the frame direction?  What's the worst case?

[iddee]

There is a slight difference in the way the bottom of the cell is made. When looking at the hive from the front on a foundationless hive, all combs will be the same on the left and all will be the same on the right. If you turn a frame around, you put it back opposite the others. The difference is so slight, very few beeks even know it, much less practice it.

[Ollie]

I don't know if it makes a difference to the bees, i guess it must stress them out a little. But hen again a little stress here and a little there and at some point it must affect them some.
Idee is right, there is a little difference, they start building down from the frame, facing the brood or the center of the nest, is a row of full cells at the top and on the other side of the frame it starts with a half cell row. Maybe it helps them find the center of the broods nest. Most of the nest in hives are not dead center of the box, they tend to favor one side over the other. In my backyard they tend to favor the side of the morning sun maybe it is a bee fung shuey (?) thing.