Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: The beginning of "death from above"  (Read 3662 times)

Offline KeyLargoBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
  • Gender: Male
    • Pirate Hat Apiary
The beginning of "death from above"
« on: May 23, 2016, 04:32:23 pm »
First aerial mosquito spray happens in my area of the Florida Keys tomorrow morning and I am sort of dreading it.....

Last year I only had to worry about the hives in my backyard...now I have them there and three out yards....
Last year I blocked entrances and covered the hives with a wet sheet and didn't release the girls until 30 minutes after the planes passed ....missed the notification once and was probably 1000 dead bees in front of the three hives.
This year I am pretty sure I cant maintain that sort of schedule with 3 outyards and flights coming almost once a week.....will be interesting to see the mortality.

We have a ton of feral hives down here so obviously this spraying doesn't kill them all but I am sort of dreading seeing all the dead bees and sweeping them up after the flights.....

Really wish there was some way to convince them the aerial spraying wasn't necessary and to just go back to the trucks with the larvacides in the night when the hives aren't active but with all the hysteria surrounding the Zika virus the media is spewing there isn't a chance in hell.....just needed to vent a little...thanks for listening.

For any interested the state of Florida is hosting a webinar on this where they go over the balance between mosquito control and beekeeping....not sure how they are goign to slant it but if you have time available might be interesting to attend.

Quote
?Mosquito Control and Beekeeping and Florida: What You Need to Know?

The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, which oversees Florida?s mosquito

control programs, has developed a webinar for beekeepers containing information about Florida?s

approach to control the spread of Zika, a virus transmitted by certain mosquitoes which exhibit a unique

natural biology making controlling them a challenge. This webinar will include information about

mosquito biology, surveillance, testing, and control practices for the vectoring species. There will also

be an emphasis on what beekeepers can do to protect honey bees while also allowing for the protection

of human health.

When: Thursday, June 2, 2016 3:00 PM- 4:00 PM

You can join this webinar through the following website and access code.

View: https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/911185237

Audio: 1 877 309 2073

Access Code: 911-185-237
Jeff Wingate

Changes in Latitudes...Changes in Attitudes....are Florida Keys bees more laid back than the rest of the country...only time will tell!!!
piratehatapiary@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/piratehatapiary

Offline Dallasbeek

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2526
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 07:53:30 pm »
Is there any evidence at all that aerial spraying is effective?  Yes, it kills skeeters that are out at the time, but their eggs live on and hatch and -- yep!  A week later the planes or choppers have to do it again.   We have an aerial applicator on the forum.  Maybe he can enlighten us as to whether this really works or is just a feel-good thing to make it look like officials are DOING SOMETHING.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2526
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 07:54:41 pm »
BTW, they'll be doing this all over Dallas soon, so I really would like to know.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Blacksheep

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 164
  • Gender: Male
  • william e smith
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 09:52:29 pm »
Good money for the crop dusters!!

Offline KeyLargoBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
  • Gender: Male
    • Pirate Hat Apiary
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2016, 11:29:45 pm »
 Back in the day that used to fly DC threes and it was a true fog smoke as opposed to the invisible stuff their using now and tourists used to call the sheriffs department saying there was a plane going down lol....they still run the trucks at night which Spray larvacide supposedly killed the buggers before they hatch but about every 10 days they still spray an aerial  mission.... Wish they wouldn't.... But it's a tourist economy down here and the white skinned non native folks are sweeter and typically dumber than us locals and they get eaten alive.
Jeff Wingate

Changes in Latitudes...Changes in Attitudes....are Florida Keys bees more laid back than the rest of the country...only time will tell!!!
piratehatapiary@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/piratehatapiary

Offline yes2matt

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 538
  • Gender: Male
  • Urban setting, no acaricides
    • Love Me Some Honey
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2016, 11:57:23 pm »


But it's a tourist economy down here and the white skinned non native folks are sweeter and typically dumber than us locals and they get eaten alive.

I feel like I'm being prejudiced by this statement. ;)

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8110
  • Gender: Male
  • Just do it
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 08:47:43 am »
I think the better solution is to spray the human being or wear a bee suit all the time when outdoors.  So much else is affected by trying to go after a single insect with a chemical weapon.  All the humans in the area are getting sprayed anyway whether they want it or not.  Just trading one birth defect for another.
Anyhow the chemical companies are happy...
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline KeyLargoBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
  • Gender: Male
    • Pirate Hat Apiary
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 09:04:42 am »
It is sort of the price we humans pay for living in the tropics.....sort of liek the same environmental price we pay to have modern society in a region of ice and snow liek Utica. All the salt and other ice melting chemicals are affecting the environment too but I still see New York state and local municipalities running salt trucks and de-icing sidewalks which  affects the environment...I don't like it and I am not endorsing it its just a fact of life and part of what allows modern society to function...all we can do is look for less toxic ways to affect the changes. They came up with GMO mosquitos which have a much lower reproduction rate and are considering releasing them in the keys but that is another huge political mess since they form the base organism of the food chain down here....no easy answers
Jeff Wingate

Changes in Latitudes...Changes in Attitudes....are Florida Keys bees more laid back than the rest of the country...only time will tell!!!
piratehatapiary@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/piratehatapiary

Offline Gunny-T

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2016, 08:03:55 pm »
I'm not familiar with what they are using to spray for the Zika virus mosquitoes. However, I have done vector control spraying in California and in Arizona. Typically, the amount of chemical used is very small. an ounce per acre average. (I would carry around 25 gallons to cover an area of many square miles.) We fly at a height of around 400 feet. The good thing about the design of the mosquito is they are easy to kill so therefore require a minute particle to do the job. The chemical is distributed in a manner that the percentage of droplets that actually reach the ground are negligible. Vector control is normally done at dusk when mosquitoes are most active, and bees are in their hives. Whenever I flew vector jobs, we always checked for bees in the area. Including the downwind area for three miles. Apiaries and -registered- bee yards were notified before hand, and there was always a notice posted in the previous day's paper. Vector control operations are very expensive, they are not conducted haphazardly or without good cause. Generally the trigger is only pulled when the mosquito population reaches a threshold determined to be hazardous or having a negative impact on the populace, this includes economical impact as it applies to livestock and probably tourism depending on where you are I guess,  or disease such as West Nile is found in samples taken throughout the region. I have, on several occasions dispersed larvacide in areas of standing water such as marsh lands, run off area's and fallow farmlands. I know many folks view these operations as greedy, selfish, evil, men trying to kill the world and cause the next several generations to be born with horrendous defects, etc?  That is not the case at all. Hundreds of man hours, extensive research, and tons of documentation go into each and every vector control evolution.  I know a lady who lost her Grandfather to West Nile. I've read reports of infants and children being killed or permanently disabled by west nile. I've read history where herds of livestock were literally driven mad by swarms of mosquitoes.  I have never seen any credible information of negative effects on humans or anything else resulting from vector control operations. I will assume there have been bee kills, though I have not seen it proven, only heard about it. I find it difficult to believe given the timing of applications (Dusk to dark) the amount of chemical used and the manner in which it is disbursed that it would be enough to kill an entire hive of otherwise healthy bees. I am not saying it hasn't or couldn't happen, I just have never seen it proven. I tend to think it all falls into the liberal invented hysteria driven by those who want to blame Monsanto and GMO's and crop dusters for everything from "Climate change" to their kids' bad grades.  Mosquitoes are capable of causing real damage. Most of us are unaware of that fact because we've lived under a blanket of health and security where those things haven't approached us. DDT was a chemical that was banned because a bunch of folks said it was killing birds and causing their eggs to fail. A claim found to be absolutely false by the way?  DDT was used extensively.  Admittedly more than it probably should have been, but it likely saved thousands of lives. The poorer countries like the Philippines for example suffered greatly when the use of DDT was halted.  If there is concern in your area about these operations, I highly recommend contacting your county Vector Control office or Agriculture commissioner.  Ask to visit their site, ask questions and explain your concerns. I am confident they would be happy to to provide you with any information you would like.  Right now, we have very few tools in our box to combat things like mosquitoes. We are very restricted from using most of those tools simply because of a skewed public perspective that is in many ways ill informed (lied to).  Until something better comes along, like the genetically selected (not modified) mosquito which has met with uninformed and hysterical public outcry, or something else, that people will certainly freak out about, we are stuck with what we have. 

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13496
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2016, 09:43:38 pm »
Thanks Gunny
For a minute there I thought you were giving the exact same talk that our local mosquito control director gave at a recent Bee meeting.

I used to hear the Vector plane fly over my house just before dawn. With 12 to 17 hives in the back yard, I never saw any bee kills from those flights.
The biggest threat is when your bees are bearding all night long and are out when they are spraying.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Gunny-T

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2016, 10:23:10 pm »
Thanks.  I don't know how things are done in other places. I'm just sharing my own experience and what I know. 

Offline Dallasbeek

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2526
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2016, 11:16:38 pm »
Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Gunny.  Thought you might have something useful to contribute and I wasn't disappointed.

BTW, the notification that came to me of your post was blank.  I wonder if others experienced that.  I found it because of the title, but it showed nothing of the body of the post.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline KeyLargoBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
  • Gender: Male
    • Pirate Hat Apiary
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 02:33:18 pm »
Thanks for the reply Gunny....Lots of good information there and some of which i didn't know......but things may be a little different here in the Keys than other locations and I certainly cant speak to the Aerial missions being run out west....Overnight applications of larvacide are applied by truck...not by plane and I typically don't worry about those since they aren't targeting adult insects and have never seen a negative impact or mortality after those applications.

The biggest difference between what you described and what we have to deal with down here comes down to 2 things...
1. Geography - Narrow island chain with mangrove estuaries interspersed with human habitation
2. State and federal parks (no spray) interspersed with private lands.

There are no dusk/evening aerial missions by plane due to the environmentally sensitive "no spray"  zones associated with multiple state and national parks and the need to toggle off and on dispersal as the planes transit "no spray" areas....so we get stuck with daytime flights that occur from civil twilight to about 1.5 hours after sunrise....pretty much when the bees are most active slurping up the overnight nectar excretions. Mortality is sort of dependent on when the plane hits any given apiary.....early in the flight and its not too bad....if they run late it gets worse. With all of the exclusion zones I am not sure how much good any of it really does...its not like Mosquitoes can read a map or know they have to stay inside the no spray boundaries

If you want to truly understand the idiocy of the "no spray" zones and get an idea of whats going on check out this page and look at any of the no spray maps.

http://keysmosquito.org/no-spray-zone-maps/

Just something we have to contend with to live and raise bees  in our little slice of paradise
Jeff Wingate

Changes in Latitudes...Changes in Attitudes....are Florida Keys bees more laid back than the rest of the country...only time will tell!!!
piratehatapiary@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/piratehatapiary

Offline Gunny-T

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 05:09:46 pm »
I imagine things are different all over to one degree or another. No spray zones for mosquitoes makes no sense to me.  More Eco-politics I guess. 
I've been to Key West a couple times. Done the "Duval crawl".  Awesome place, especially if you can get away from the hordes.  Hemingway's house was a cool place to visit.  I'm a mountain kind of guy myself but the Keys are likely one of the most eclectic, and mesmerizing places in the country.

Offline cpekarek

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2016, 11:10:12 am »
Hi All,

I have 4 new hives in my bee yard which is located at a golf course. Aerial spraying for mosquitoes begins soon in our area in Northern Illinois. They spray our property at dawn with a helicopter and are going to use Anvil 10+10. I'm planning on covering the hives and closing up the entrances. Does anyone know how long I can keep the hives closed before it becomes an issue for the bees?

Offline cao

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1679
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2016, 05:38:50 pm »
Welcome to the forum.  It depends on how hot it is.  The main thing to consider it to allow for ventilation and a source for water for them to cool the hive. 

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8110
  • Gender: Male
  • Just do it
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2016, 08:28:55 am »
Hi All,

Does anyone know how long I can keep the hives closed before it becomes an issue for the bees?

If I had to deal with annual spraying'I would definitely be using SBB and a vent on top.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline KeyLargoBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
  • Gender: Male
    • Pirate Hat Apiary
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2016, 09:09:02 am »
 I use SBB and when I locked em down last year I used a solid entrance reducer with no notch if however you have solid bottoms you could vent the entrance with #8 hardware cloth or some sort of sliding screen and you can easily leave them closed over night or Make a modified "robbing screen" insert that has no exit but just locks em down. You will want to open them up about 30 minutes after the spraying and not leave them locked down into the heat of the day....oh and for the record they DO NOT like being locked down so suit up when you pull the entrances the next morning ;-)
Jeff Wingate

Changes in Latitudes...Changes in Attitudes....are Florida Keys bees more laid back than the rest of the country...only time will tell!!!
piratehatapiary@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/piratehatapiary

Offline cpekarek

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Gender: Male
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2016, 10:26:53 am »
Thanks for the tips. My hives do have SBBs. Anvil 10+10 begins to breakdown after 30 to 60 minutes but some residue remains for up to 24 hours depending on weather conditions. Spraying takes place from 5:00 to 5:15 AM. The bees seem to start stirring around 6:00 to 6:30 AM currently. I would like to keep the bees in their hives until noon if possible. I may just set up individual misting sprinklers on each hive and run them so the bees think it's raining and stay in on their own.

Thanks again

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8110
  • Gender: Male
  • Just do it
Re: The beginning of "death from above"
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2016, 02:38:28 pm »
I may just set up individual misting sprinklers on each hive and run them so the bees think it's raining and stay in on their own.

I often wonder how well that will work.  My bees have gone out in the rain.  They don't go out when it is pouring but misty rain is no deterrent for them.  In this case all they would have to do is pass by a little mist and then it is free sailing.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

 

anything