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Author Topic: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless  (Read 1974 times)

Offline Verbify

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Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« on: February 14, 2015, 06:04:45 pm »
I'll be running all 8-frame mediums, foundationless, starting with a 5 frame nuc that is HBBBH, where H =honey and B=brood. I need to get in my head a plan so I'm thinking hiving them as HEBBBEEH where E=empty frame.

When adding second med box, should I move the frames of honey up, replacing them with empty frames? Or is it better to move up one or two frames of brood, assuming they've drawn out an empty frame or two and started brood in them)?

Also appreciate tips on the timing of this: e.g. waiting until one (or two) empty frame is drawn or both drawn and has brood?

I appreciate some additional insights.

Offline Jim134

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2015, 06:28:52 pm »
I personally would not go foundationI lees until I had at least 8 frames of brood on deep frames in my opinion it takes too many resources. If I was running mediums I would say 10 frames brood.Unless you have resources already such as drawn comb.

 If this is a brand new nuc ? I also would put them in an 8 frame box immediately if it is as full as you say it is. I would put the empty box on the bottom especially in the spring heat rises they need to keep the brood warm.
     
On one side of your setup I would have contact with the brood to the honey. Remember in the springtime you may be fighting cold temperatures at night.                 


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« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 06:44:30 pm by Jim 134 »
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Offline sterling

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2015, 08:59:49 pm »
They have drawn comb as a guide so what you are planning will work fine except I would put one frame of honey beside the brood if there is any cold weather ahead. Empties on the other side.

Offline rwlaw

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2015, 09:21:38 pm »
 I second Jim's advice, if you get all 8 frames drawn out, the hive will be firing on all cylinders. Then start putting in your foundationless frames on the outer parts of the brood nest and move the drawn out foundation into the 2nd box to bait them upwards and and then out of the hives. Drawn out comb is a valuable resource and foundation be it wax or plastic is not a detriment  IMO.
 
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Offline Jim134

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2015, 09:55:37 pm »
It has been my experience if you do this only on 5 frames of mediums the queen will be waiting to lay eggs if your go  foundationless....and it will be harder for the nurse bees to keep warm.I do hope you can make an educated decision whatever it may be and have fun with your bees.I do know where I live in New England this season is way too short to be doing this and have enough storage for the winter.


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« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 10:24:58 pm by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2015, 07:01:24 pm »
>I'll be running all 8-frame mediums, foundationless, starting with a 5 frame nuc that is HBBBH, where H =honey and B=brood. I need to get in my head a plan so I'm thinking hiving them as HEBBBEEH where E=empty frame.

That's a good plan early on.  It doesn't break up the brood nest and keeping brood warm is an issue early in the spring.  Later you can add some empty ones to the middle of the brood nest.

>When adding second med box, should I move the frames of honey up, replacing them with empty frames?

Yes.  that or add the box to the bottom.

> Or is it better to move up one or two frames of brood, assuming they've drawn out an empty frame or two and started brood in them)?

It's a judgment call that depends on how warm the nights are and how many bees there are to cover the brood.  The safer bet is to move the honey up, but it does incite them to move up when there is brood and enough bees to cover it.

>Also appreciate tips on the timing of this: e.g. waiting until one (or two) empty frame is drawn or both drawn and has brood?

I'm more worried about the density of bees than the number of combs.  You need to be able to make a gap in the brood nest and it's quickly filled with festooning bees.  That would indicate a surplus of bees available to cover the brood.
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Offline Steel Tiger

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 12:57:11 pm »
 I would go HEBBBEHE so that each empty frame has a full frame next to it as a guide. As they expand, put the two outer frames (should be honey frames) into the middle of the box above separated by one empty frame. Slide the brood outward and put two empty frames in the middle, separated by a full frame FFEFEFFF. The bees will draw them out fast.

 

Offline Verbify

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 02:08:46 pm »
Thanks so much for the replies! Its very helpful to have a plan and your advice to refine it. And especially thanks, Michael Bush, for the reminder that it's about numbers of bees and not frames!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 02:23:43 pm by Verbify »

Offline gww

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Re: Newbie: hiving 5 frame nuc with foundationless
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 03:22:22 pm »
ver
Thanks for asking the question, now I won't have to ask for myself.  I too will be starting with all foundationless frames.  I could try to get some with foundation but small orders cost more for shipping so I am going to take my chances.
gww

 

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