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Author Topic: Did they swarm already?  (Read 1863 times)

Offline IndianaBrown

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Did they swarm already?
« on: June 25, 2007, 02:10:05 am »
Sorry for the long post, but I am a bit perplexed...

Last year I hived a swarm about the end of May.  After the initial burst of wax they built up relatively slowly.  They wintered in 2 deeps, but they were not overpopulated.  I got very little honey from this hive last year.

This year they managed to outwait the Easter cold snap.  Since then they have built up like crazy!  The hive has been full of bees ever time I checked it.  There were also dozens of queen cups every time I looked.  For the most part I left the cups alone, but I culled some that were interfering with comb building.  I removed 2 frames in the late spring and replaced them with undrawn frames to open up the brood nest, and added supers early.  About 3 weeks ago I reworked the hive from a standard Lang (with 2 deeps and 3 medium supers) to a 'combo' hive with 22 deep (wood) frames and 4 medium (plastic) supers, again opening up the brood nest with 2 new undrawn frames.  At that time I found a queen cell with a larva in it on a plastic drone frame.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/annamaren/601715642/
The frame was near the front of the hive.  A week later the cell was capped.  Although I was not convinced that the cell was going to turn out to be a queen (since it was on a drone frame,) I took it out to help with a trapping removal I was starting.  I did not check every other frame, but while I did see plenty of queen cups, I did not see any other queen cells.  I left them alone for two weeks...

The weather had been hot and very dry much of the last several weeks, but it has been raining off and on over the last several days.  I had a suspicion that there were less bees coming and going recently but assumed it was due to a lack of nectar (first too dry, then too wet.)

It finally stopped raining this afternoon.  Although I know better, :roll: I wanted to get in to grab at least one frame with some eggs and young larva for another trapping removal I am working on.  A bunch of bees were doing orientation flights and there were a decent amount of field bees coming and going when I started.  The top pair of supers (that had previously drawn comb) are almost full of honey and nectar, about 2/3rds capped.  The very back 3 frames in the back top super had a little brood which does not worry me.  However 2 of these frames had multiple capped queen cells, some in the low 'swarm' position, some higher up on the frame like supercedure cells.  There were 5 cells in all.  None of the other super frames had capped queen cells.  The bottom 2 supers (that did not have drawn comb) have some bees on them, but only a little drawn wax. The rest of the hive still has plenty of bees. 

I want to avoid disturbing the brood this time of year, but after finding the queen cells I started checking brood frames near the front of the box.  I found only a small amount older larva and capped brood on the first few frames.  There was some capped honey and pollen, but no 'backfilling' of nectar, with plenty of open cells.  I moved back a few frames and was relieved to find the queen, some young larva, and more capped brood.  Another few frames back and things looked normal, with larva and brood filling much of the frames.  (I did not see any eggs, but my eyes are not that sharp and I left my bifocals at work. :oops:

By that point the hive was getting very hot.  (My gloves got tagged many times even after I smoked them.  One sting got through the leather and another bee tagged me through my shirt. That is what I get for working the hive on a damp day.)  So, although I know it was 'too little too late' I opened up the brood nest again with another 2 empty undrawn frames.  I also took the 2 medium frames with queen cells.  I added another undrawn super and closed it up.

So... There are still plenty of bees, but the field bees may have been in today.  The queen may or may not have been the queen from the original swarm since she was unmarked.  I suspect that there are more queen cells.  (I did not get to look at the half of the brood nest that had the majority of the queen cups.)  The frames with queen cells that I pulled were placed in bait hives at the trapping removals I am doing.  If my hive swarms and I end up queenless I can get one of those queens back.  (Probably not from this one ;) http://www.flickr.com/photos/annamaren/616799147/ ) As a precaution I am planning to whip up a few bait hives and put them out in the neighborhood tomorrow evening.  It is a good thing I have bee friendly neighbors.  :)

So did they swam already or did the just shut down due to a dearth?  Are they about to swarm?  Should I give up on getting any more honey, search for other queen cells and do a split?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Did they swarm already?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2007, 07:23:13 am »
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

Sounds like classic swarm behavior.  They might have already or not.  But I'd split if they look strong so they won't swarm again.  They will send out afterswarms until they sense a significant drop in population.

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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Did they swarm already?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2007, 10:43:03 pm »
From what I understand of the changes you made in the hive I would be inclined to think you're on your way to a 2 queen hive.  Part of the hive doesn't think it has a queen.  Not all swarm cells are really swarm cells but can be supercedure cells, especially if you have both location types and only a few.
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Offline Burl

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Re: Did they swarm already?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2007, 02:07:40 am »
Hi all !    I'm new here and was curious about just what the aforementioned bait hive is .  I just lost a swarm.   Had them relocated in a super with undrawn frames for about an hour and then like a twister they flew up high in the sky and headed due North. Helpless does not adequately descibe how I felt right then .     Thanks   Burl
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Did they swarm already?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2007, 08:11:08 am »
A nuc or any old bee box with a frame of old comb, some empty frames (foundationless would be nice) and a few drops of lemongrass essential oil will work nicely for a bait hive.  No guarantees, but I've had pretty good luck with them.

It's kind of like fishing.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin