package bees and cell size

[jimmy_in_texas]

Hello again all,

I have really enjoyed my first year of beekeeping from the feral hive I found this past spring, I never had any intentions of having bees at all but when I thought about the little hive I knew would die this winter I couldnt resist, currently they fill two deeps and the stores are full and those nasty hive beetles are long gone. mites I dont know, I have never done any kind of test, I do look at my bees daily and have never seen any on dead or live bees (I know you cant rely on this).

now to get to my question, I just ordered two 3Lb packages of the "all american's" from rweaver, I've read quite a bit about 4.9MM cell size and I may be a beginner but seems to me if small cell is pretty much the natural size then thats what should be used.  I forgot to ask about what cell size rweaver is using but would it matter?  can I release them directly on 4.9MM foundation? 

I do have an interesting observation from the feral hive, I used no foundation in the first brood chamber, I took the feral comb and wired it in empty frames, after the bees completely filled all 10 frames, I put on a second deep with standard foundation, it took them a long time before they would draw out the foundation even with continous feeding, in fact, they didnt draw anything until I took a honey frame from the bottom chamber and put it in the top.  then they finally drew it out and got it filled with honey, later on one day I was taking a look at the second deep and noticed a very large pattern of brood in the very center frame, all drones, could the larger cell size of the foundation make the bees think this was drone cells?   I wonder if I've confused the bees with 2 cell sizes in the hive.  also the honey frame I removed and replaced with a sheet of standard foundation which still hasnt been drawn out after around two months, they just wont touch it.

I really appreciate everyones help, other then this forum and my books, I have no other source of information

[Jerrymac]

You used their old comb. Right? What you might do is either get 4.9 or go foundationless and let the bees make their own. This would be done by placing empty frames between fully drawn frames in the brood area. The frames you take out would be moved up into the next box.

[Michael Bush]

>I forgot to ask about what cell size rweaver is using

Probably 5.4mm

> but would it matter?

Yes and no.  The bees will regress if you let them and if you rotate out a turnover or two of comb until they get smaller and those bees build smaller comb.

>  can I release them directly on 4.9MM foundation?

Yes.  Sometimes they will build it the first try and sometimes it takes a couple of regressions.  I've had good luck right off with Mann lake's PF 100s and PF 120s.  It's 4.95mm and they have drawn it well right out of a large cell package.  Another option is HSC which is full drawn plastic.  But you can just put a strip of wood in the groove and let them build their own too.

>I do have an interesting observation from the feral hive, I used no foundation in the first brood chamber, I took the feral comb and wired it in empty frames, after the bees completely filled all 10 frames, I put on a second deep with standard foundation, it took them a long time before they would draw out the foundation even with continous feeding

My experience is the same as yours.  The bees do not like foundation.

> in fact, they didnt draw anything until I took a honey frame from the bottom chamber and put it in the top.  then they finally drew it out and got it filled with honey, later on one day I was taking a look at the second deep and noticed a very large pattern of brood in the very center frame, all drones, could the larger cell size of the foundation make the bees think this was drone cells?

That or they needed drone cells. :)

>  I wonder if I've confused the bees with 2 cell sizes in the hive.  also the honey frame I removed and replaced with a sheet of standard foundation which still hasnt been drawn out after around two months, they just wont touch it.

It's not the size they wanted to build.  :)

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm