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Author Topic: Langstroth Long Hive  (Read 5939 times)

Offline capt44

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Langstroth Long Hive
« on: July 12, 2015, 12:35:07 PM »
Here is a picture of a Langstroth Long Hive I built and just got setup.
It holds 31 deep frames and has 2 follower boards.
I have 4 inner covers made and in place so you don't have to open the whole hive at one time, just sections.
I moved a colony of bees from a 5 frame Nuc into the hive a few days ago.
I figured they would be clustered where the old hive was located but no they accepted the long hive right off.
I have 2 inner covers with feeder wholes, 2 3/4 inch, for a quart jar type feeder.
For the entrances I drilled 1 1/4 inch holes at an angle up to deflect rain.
I also mounted the hive to a 4x4 treated post on each end set in the ground 24 inches.
This hive will be extremely heavy so I set it up permanent.
While it was in the wood shop I kept calling it my casket.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline Maggiesdad

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2015, 12:46:04 PM »
Nice!

Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 10:18:24 AM »
As a newbie beek may I ask, what are the advantages/disadvantages if this type of hive.
It would seem that this is far more practical than stacking boxes on top of each other?
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints

Online Eric Bosworth

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 12:29:56 PM »
As a newbie beek may I ask, what are the advantages/disadvantages if this type of hive.
It would seem that this is far more practical than stacking boxes on top of each other?
Advantages I see are lack of lifting boxes and always working at a convenient height. You never have to worry about boxes that you can't reach. You really only need to lift 1 frame at a time that is pretty nice.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2015, 08:05:15 PM »
With so many advantages why is it not used more?
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints

Online Eric Bosworth

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 09:09:19 PM »
Not sure. I use them in the summer and then I use split boxes in the winter so I can have 2 colonies keeping each other warm.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Joe D

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 11:53:22 PM »
One of the disadvantages is the weight when and if you decide to move it.  It is like a TBH with frames that will fit perfectly in another hive or extractor.  I haven't built one yet, I have a TBH with kind of triangle frames.  I like it but the interchangeable frames and being able to run the frames through an extractor will be nice.

It does look nice Capt.



Joe

Offline little john

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 05:46:30 AM »
I have over a dozen Long Hives and will be making another 10 or so over winter. They're my favourite hives, but not ideal for every purpose - so I have quite a few vertical hives as well which are used for queen-rearing and the development of nucs.
I have one or two Long Hives with legs which are static - but the rest are kept as simple boxes. Living either on a trailer, or two to a plastic pallet.

I gave up on the idea of multiple occupation, as I discovered that partition boards (for some reason called 'follower' boards - but not sure what it is that they follow ...) can seldom be made bee-tight. So - I cut-off 1.5" from the bottom of each partition board, and now make the boxes 32" long, enough for 20 frames, and fit battens to each end of the box so that they can be easily lifted when empty. Any longer and I couldn't get my arms around them ... :)
If I were in a more nectar-abundant area, then maybe I'd add 3 or 4 small supers overhead, but I'm not, so there's no need for this right now. But maybe in the years to come ... ?

I once tried central side entrances and found that my bees got 'lost' in not knowing where the back of the cavity was, and so created divided stores areas. As this could have led to winter starvation, I make entrances only at one end now.

In general, I find that Long Hives require just a little more management than vertical hives, in order that store combs don't create a barrier to brood chamber expansion - but otherwise they're far more flexible than vertical hives in that just one or two frames can be added when needed (rather than a box-full at a time) - or a few pinched to make-up the odd nuc - without there being any need to worry about filling-up a box with dummies or empty frames to prevent wild comb being drawn.

LJ

Almost forgot - I also fit Open Mesh to roughly one-quarter of the floor area - along one side - so that the hive can be tilted slightly during winter in order that any excess condensation may exit via that mesh.
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Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 01:04:58 PM »
Looks like a winter project for me.
Any input on which would be better, deep or medium frames?
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 04:39:59 PM »
>Any input on which would be better, deep or medium frames?

I would use whatever your standard brood frames are in your operation.
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Offline little john

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 05:41:57 PM »
I agree 100% with Michael. One of the worst decisions I've ever made was to make one hive with a different frame depth to any of the others.

This came about when I decided to convert a 4ft KTBH to a framed Long Hive - it was a case of either making something useful out of it, or put in on the bonfire. And - by trying to generate as little extra work as possible, what resulted was a 'Dual' Long Hive, dimensioned for 12" deep frames. Which was a really bad decision, as every other hive in my apiary has 9" deep frames.

Here's the culprit - you can clearly see it's KTBH origins on the end panel.



And here's what it looked like after a coat of paint, just before I put any bees into it.



But it's a decision I still regret having made, as the lack of inter-changeability of frames is proving to be a real pain in the backside.

LJ
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Online Eric Bosworth

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 09:17:57 PM »
Unlike laws one size fits all works great with beehive components.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 02:00:19 PM »
Thanks.
I have plenty of medium plastic foundation, so I'll stick to that size.
Time to break out the Solidworks and start designing. At 102 degrees it's too hot to do anything outside anyway :cool:
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints

Online Eric Bosworth

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2015, 10:03:57 PM »
One other advantage... You can't smash bees between boxes.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Marysia2

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2015, 01:40:23 AM »
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I have two long Langs (some wit called them Longstroths), each of which are the equivalent of 3 deeps placed horizontally.  I use Kelly Bees foundationless deep Lang frames in them; currently there is a colony of Russian hybrids in each. 

I have 2 top bar hives which I like, but the lack of standardization for top bar hives makes it difficult to swap or borrow comb from another tbh beek.  As mine were built by 2 different people (big mistake), I can't even swap combs with myself.   :tongue:

I'm a short woman, I'm unable to lift 60+ pound boxes filled with bees and honey; long hives, whether long Langs or TBHs, work very well for me.

Offline Marysia2

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2015, 01:51:14 AM »
With so many advantages why is it not used more?
For one thing, it's "different," and a lot of old beeks just don't like anything "different."  Possibly also it has to do with "real estate":  if your available space for hives is limited, stacked vertical boxes will have a smaller footprint.  You could fit 2 vertical hives in the space of one horizontal.  To me, they were a perfect solution to issues I had with hefting boxes and inspections.

Offline capt44

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2015, 05:02:55 PM »
I built 2 of these long hives, one for me and one for a student I am teaching how to keep bees.
I used the deep langstroth frames for that is what I use in my vertical deep boxes.
I drilled 3 four inch holes in the bottom and covered them with #8 hardware cloth.
I made covers to go over them and so I could treat the hive with oxalic acid vapor for varroa mites.
So far the hive is doing great.
I just move the follower boards out and place 4 empty frames and foundation in.
Since the post are in the ground 24 inches I installed 2 rachet straps to the top so thunderstorm winds wouldn't lift the top off.
So far the bees are doing fantastic.
Now to see how they do over winter.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline Bombus_perplexus

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2015, 02:45:32 PM »
Another reason that it is not used more is that it takes up more space, both in the bee yard and on a truck. They will probably never be used by the commercial beekeepers due to that fact. The need them to take up as little space as possible to be able to fit as many on a transport truck or in a bee yard as possible.

I personally had 5 top bars of my own design last year and loved them, but they were for personal pollination at my small 11 acre local farm. I have been playing with designs back and forth for varying purposes.

Offline dunderi

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2015, 06:13:02 PM »
This is really brilliant.  I've acquired a couple of ten frame ideal boxes and want to run all ideal frames,  but also would like to try top bar style specifically for ease of access and lack of lifting while I'm learning. 

When fitting a nuc into one of these would you put them in the middle,  letting them expand side to side, with the entrance to the centre of the long side (coolwise?) or to the middle of the short end (warmwise?) with the bees at the front door end of the hive and expanding towards the rear?

Also,  once full,  would you then be able to add a section vertically,  say an 8 frame super, or even a couple of them for honey flow?

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2015, 12:55:04 PM »
"When fitting a nuc into one of these would you put them in the middle,  letting them expand side to side, with the entrance to the centre of the long side (coolwise?) or to the middle of the short end (warmwise?) with the bees at the front door end of the hive and expanding towards the rear?"
Place the nuc near the entrance. That is where bees prefer to have their hives when they pick the location.

"Also,  once full,  would you then be able to add a section vertically,  say an 8 frame super, or even a couple of them for honey flow?"
Yes you can add a box on top. This is done with top bar hives and long hives.
Jim
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Offline texanbelchers

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2015, 02:24:08 PM »
This is really brilliant.  I've acquired a couple of ten frame ideal boxes and want to run all ideal frames,  but also would like to try top bar style specifically for ease of access and lack of lifting while I'm learning. 

When fitting a nuc into one of these would you put them in the middle,  letting them expand side to side, with the entrance to the centre of the long side (coolwise?) or to the middle of the short end (warmwise?) with the bees at the front door end of the hive and expanding towards the rear?

Also,  once full,  would you then be able to add a section vertically,  say an 8 frame super, or even a couple of them for honey flow?

There are different schools of thought, but most recommend that the hive start on one end instead of the middle.  For clustering in the cold you want them to be on one end and work toward the stores on the other.  The entrance can be on the end or side; cold way or warm way doesn't seem to matter.  It is more an issue of convenience for you and the available flight path.  If you are going to divide it then holes like the picture in the original post work well.

To make things easier, make your follower boards first.  Use them for alignment when you mount the long side boards.  Then you know they will fit without tweaking them.  This really applies to KTBH builds.  :)

Offline capt44

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2015, 09:51:42 AM »
I started mine in the center and as they filled out the frames I moved the follower boards out. My entrances are 1 1/4 inch holes drilled upwards at an angle to keep rain from getting into the hive.
I built mine to where I can add 10 frame langstroth boxes on top if necessary.   So far I haven't had to go vertical yet.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline Joe D

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2015, 02:49:47 AM »
I haven't built a Langstroth long hive yet, I do have Langstroth 10 frame deep, medium and shallow supers.  It would be better if I only ran one size but I use deeps for brood and med and shallow for honey.  I also have a TBH, this year I did put a super on it and tried a dozen jars with a small piece of cone stuck in the bottom/top when on hive.  They did work the super, not so much on the jars.
As for the weight of the Lang supers part of the time I care supers to exchange with the full ones when collecting honey and a dolly.  You can put on a new super or check the frames to see if they are completely capped and swap out the frames with new ones and put the full frame in the super on the dolly.  That way you are only lifting a frame at a time also.  Some of my shallow supers I will have 8 or 9 frames in the 10 frame super, they will have a good bit of honey.

Good luck to you all,

Joe D

Offline capt44

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2016, 01:55:12 PM »
Here it is January 15th and we've had some cold weather, not much but some down in the mid 20's at night.
I didn't see much activity as the other hives lately and was worried about them.
One of my students came by and helped me go into the hive.
I slapped the side of it and nothing happened.
We lifted the top off and I picked up the center inner cover and low and behold there they were.
They started coming out madder'n who thought it.
It was full of bees and the frames were filled out too.
I got the inner cover back on and put the top on and got the hell out of Dodge.
I got popped 3 times and they followed us all the way back to the shop.
Yep I'd say the gals are doing good.
I've got a drain tube hang'n out of my belly so I had to have help for spell.
But all in all the bees in the long hive are showing a lot of promise.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Online gww

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2016, 02:32:50 PM »
Capt..
Quote
I've got a drain tube hang'n out of my belly so I had to have help for spell.
But all in all the bees in the long hive are showing a lot of promise.

Good to know the bees seem to be doing well in the long hive.  I will start in spring in a lang but do have two long langs built for when I get enough bees or catch a swarm.

As far as the tube.  You have your gall bladder removed or cancer or what?  Whatever it is, I hope you are doing well and am glad you are still checking on things even if it is with help.  Wishing you well.
gww

Offline LowCountryTopBars

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2016, 07:15:37 PM »
Here is a picture of a Langstroth Long Hive I built and just got setup.
It holds 31 deep frames and has 2 follower boards.
I have 4 inner covers made and in place so you don't have to open the whole hive at one time, just sections.
I moved a colony of bees from a 5 frame Nuc into the hive a few days ago.
I figured they would be clustered where the old hive was located but no they accepted the long hive right off.
I have 2 inner covers with feeder wholes, 2 3/4 inch, for a quart jar type feeder.
For the entrances I drilled 1 1/4 inch holes at an angle up to deflect rain.
I also mounted the hive to a 4x4 treated post on each end set in the ground 24 inches.
This hive will be extremely heavy so I set it up permanent.
While it was in the wood shop I kept calling it my casket.

  I have six top bar hives with two of them populated.  Hope to get bees in all of them this spring.

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Offline capt44

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2016, 09:07:38 PM »
GGW -- nah I haven't got cancer. Just some abscesses that keep showing up in my stomach area from past surgeries.
Anyhow I go back to the Doc Thursday to see what she's got to say.
I told her I was raising queens this year even if I had to crawl on my hands and knees to do it.
They ain't keeping this ole feller down.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Online gww

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2016, 09:47:17 PM »
Capt..
Quote
They ain't keeping this ole feller down.

Thats great. 

I noticed the post before you and the pictures.  I find this site too hard to add pictures cause of the having to resize them and my ineptness in doing so.

Dad had simular issues with previous operation sites and had some of them surgically smoothed out.  He is still doing well and with your objects of interest keeping you interested and not dwelling on the bad parts, I look forward to reading lots more of your post.  I wish I could get a little of your swarm catch success to rub off on me.

Good luck
gww

Offline capt44

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2016, 09:42:13 AM »
Alright here it is May 1st, 2016 and the bees in the long hive are doing fantastic.
I keep spreading the follower boards out and adding 2 frames to each side.
That way they won't have too much empty space to guard at a time.
I move the honey frames to the outside and the empty ones in.
I have treated them with oxalic acid vapor and they're doing great.
I'm going to build 4 more this year.
But first I've got to build 15 langstroth hives.
I've got more bees coming in than Carter's got liver pills.
But for brood I love these long hives.
Easy to inspect.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline canadiyank

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2016, 02:53:36 PM »
I love that, great idea. Seems to be the best of both worlds.

Offline capt44

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2016, 01:04:34 PM »
Alright here is an update on my Longhive 9/4/2016.
I went into my hive to see how the gals were doing and check for hive beetles.
I seen no hive beetles.
The population is large.
I expanded the follower boards out so now they have 30 frames.
Which I only added 6 frames, 3 on each end.
I moved some full frames of honey to the outside and placed the empty frames towards the center of the hive.
I am building 4 more of the Long Hives this winter about 12 ft apart so I can bush hog the weeds down between the hives.
I use Permethrine SFC 36.8% as a ground drench to break up the life cycle of the Small Hive Beetles if I ever do get an infestation.
So far I love this setup.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline anderspv

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2016, 06:10:08 AM »
Anyone have plans for the Langstroth Long Hive.  I would love to get building one this winter.  Any help will be AWESOME!!!!!!

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2016, 09:04:31 AM »
Mine are all mediums now because that's what size frame I run, but when building a deep long Langstroth hive I have done this:

Make the frame rabbets 3/4" deep.  This leaves 3/8" beespace at the top.  Rip the boards for the sides 10 1/2" wide.  Use 1/4" luan for the bottom  The "ends" should be 19 7/8"  I would make the sides 46 1/2".  This means with the ends screwed on the total length will be 48".  Cut the frame rabbets 3/8" wide and 3/4" deep.  You can do this with two cuts on the table saw or you can use a dado blade and do it with one cut.  I make a butt joint with the ends running past, but if you want to make finger joints they will hold better.  Screw together with 2" deck screws.  The bottom is 19 7/8" by 48".  Nail, staple or screw it on.  I would make the top out of 3/4" plywood, 20" by 48".  I like a small top entrance on the end, so I would chisel or route an entrance into the cover so they have 1/4" to 3/8" tall 2" long entrance.  It is nice, but not necessary, to have some kind of smaller inner covers so you don't have to expose all the bees at once.  Say 6" x 20" strips of 1/4" luan plywood and put those on before the cover.  I would set all of this on bricks, blocks or treated wood.  If I put legs on them they blow over...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
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Online gww

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Re: Langstroth Long Hive
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2016, 11:17:10 AM »
I made two almost exactly like michael has writen.  The truth of the matter is that it was studying michaels web site that I was able to make my mind up on building this hive and also why I ended up just cutting a 45 degree angle on the top bar of my frames for a comb guide.  I haven't put bees in either of the long hives yet.  I also did not cut the frame rest 3/4 inch and had to add a shim around the top for bee space.  I did do the double top of small boards and then a top (single sheet) above that and did put mine on leggs.

I was looking for a photo to post but had a computer crash and must have lost them when I reloaded my computer back to factory.  I am running a couple of lang hives and may never put bees in the long hive.  I do believe that with what I know now that if you make a long lang hive in this fassion it does not give you the bennifit of ease of building compared to a lang hive that was one of the big incentives to build a long hive for me.  I do believe that if I ever do use them that having interchangable frames with the langs will be a binnifit.

Just my take on it.
gww

 

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