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Author Topic: Overseas aid  (Read 2097 times)

Offline NeilTheCop

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Overseas aid
« on: July 27, 2015, 05:47:57 PM »
Cost the US taxpayer about $50 billion last year, yes billion.
Here's a list of who got what
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid
Now this money, like all government money, came from the people, unless congress had a car wash or bake sale and didn't tell us, but

Article 1, section 8

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

So how does giving, let's say Nigeria, one of the most corrupt counties on earth, $335 million of our money provide for the "common welfare and defense of the United States"?

Just wondering :wink:
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 08:02:41 PM »
we are not as careful with our foreign aid as we should be.  This does not give a very good breakdown of exactly how most of that money is disbursed or even exactly what they count as aid, except for the military part.  We spend a great deal on UN programs, and money dispersed through UN programs.  That would be  great place to cut.  The majority of the UN disbursements go to government with the promise the money or aid will be used for the people.  We know that is rarely the case. 

We do a lot of medical stuff overseas including using our military medical staffs for various programs.  is that aid, military aid, or even counted?  We are supposed to have limits according to human rights abuses, etc. but this seems often ignored.

It is to our benefit to be involved.  We gained a great deal of good will in Africa with our AIDS program.  The 2005 Pakistan earthquake aid was the first interaction that many of those people had  with Americans and they found we were not growing horns out of our head.  Same thing in Burma.
As a health matter, vaccine programs, clean water programs, etc. are to everyone's benefit.  It's' pretty easy to spread stuff all over the world these days. 

There are a lot of things that are questionable and there should be more stringent controls and reviews.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 08:37:35 AM »
>So how does giving, let's say Nigeria, one of the most corrupt counties on earth, $335 million of our money provide for the "common welfare and defense of the United States"?

By buying us friends.  It has always worked so well in the past too...
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Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 08:06:46 PM »
While on the subject of Nigeria and money, our soon to be former president has promised to help Nigeria's President to recover some stolen money, which I'm sure includes part of the aid money we gave them.
Just plain wrong

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33689115
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2015, 10:16:25 AM »
>our soon to be former president has promised to help Nigeria's President to recover some stolen money

No, I think I know where it is.  It's in this Nigerian bank account and they offered to transfer it to my account if I give them a 10% fee...

Or maybe it's the guy who is trying to reimburse me for that other Nigerian being a scam... he's from Nigeria too and wants to transfer 2.5 million dollars to my account...  I'll bet that's where that stolen money is...
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2015, 10:04:41 PM »
>So how does giving, let's say Nigeria, one of the most corrupt counties on earth, $335 million of our money provide for the "common welfare and defense of the United States"?

It doesn't... I like this quote from Ron Paul "foreign aid takes money from the poor people of this country and gives it to the rich people in poor countries." With very few exceptions I think Congress should be required to fund government spending with crowd funding Initiatives. That would do two things, first, programs would only be funded by people who support them. Second, program support would be instantly realized.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 08:30:24 AM »
> I think Congress should be required to fund government spending with crowd funding Initiatives.

Absolutely!
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 01:39:09 PM »
I thought I might get some agreement on that. That is my problem with Planned Parenthood. I believe that morality can not effectively be legislated so therefor I don't believe that making abortions illegal will work, but that doesn't mean tax dollars from people who are vehemently opposed to abortion should have to pay for it.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 09:35:15 PM »
I thought I might get some agreement on that. That is my problem with Planned Parenthood. I believe that morality can not effectively be legislated so therefor I don't believe that making abortions illegal will work, but that doesn't mean tax dollars from people who are vehemently opposed to abortion should have to pay for it.

Interesting concept.
When you fill out your IRS 1040 they have a small but highly optimistic 'Do you want $3 of your federal tax to go to the Presidential Election Campaign Fund?'
Let's expand that to 'Do you want $10 of your federal tax to go to a foreign country, possibly hostile to the US, with no accountability as to how it's spent?', and "Do you want $3 of your Federal tax to go to planned parenthood?'
And each year add to this list :tongue:

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2015, 12:21:21 PM »
> 'Do you want $10 of your federal tax to go to a foreign country, possibly hostile to the US, with no accountability as to how it's spent?'

I'm sure they would get a lot with that one... they might have ti spin it a bit better. :)
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2015, 07:38:49 PM »
Quote
but that doesn't mean tax dollars from people who are vehemently opposed to abortion should have to pay for it.

Exactly, although the argument could be made that you don't stop murders from happening by making murder illegal, yet it is illegal.

And for those of us who believe life begins at conception, abortion is murder.  at any rate, no tax dollars should be spent on it.  If folks think it's so important, let them donate to PP and fund it.  Or let states fund it if they wish.  most of the things that get federal dollars, shouldn't. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2015, 09:03:03 PM »
If someone needs/wants an abortion it means that the planning part of planned parenthood didn't work.

A moot point anyway, for the time being

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/politics/senate-planned-parenthood-defunding-legislation/

 
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 11:57:56 PM »
I don't get this.  All the stuff they cover other than abortion is now covered by Obamacare.  They aren't supposed to use fed dollars for abortion anyway.  So...why not take the money they are given and let some of these little, local clinics that would get it, use it for hiring, equipment, etc. 

Talk about a powerful lobby!  Death is good business.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2015, 09:21:02 PM »
You're not supposed to get it Kathy.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2015, 11:11:21 PM »
> I dthink Congress should be required to fund government spending with crowd funding Initiatives.

Absolutely!
I will second that.
Jim
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Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2015, 03:14:27 PM »
At least we should save $1.5 billion a year now that Egypt doesn't need US aid money anymore.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34102656
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2015, 03:39:11 PM »
Why would that stop Washington from sending them money. We send money to Saudia Arabia.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Overseas aid
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2015, 12:42:48 PM »
Saudi Arabia really needs it now that they are cutting spending and have issued bonds to cover their budget shortfall.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11847268/Low-oil-price-forces-Saudi-Arabia-to-cut-spending-amid-record-budget-shortfalls.html
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anything