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Offline divemaster1963

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2016, 05:11:43 PM »
Robin - yes, a lovely colour.  I suspect it's called 'Powder Blue', the colour a lot of food processing machinery is painted (which is how I came to buy a part-used tin of it) - that is, the equipment which isn't made from stainless steel.  Bright blue can be easily spotted amongst the colours of vegetables - so it's the colour chosen for Band-Aids, disposable gloves etc. in food factories.

John - if (and only if) it's not too personal, what's the health problem ?
I agree - sitting around can make a person 'stir-crazy' very quickly.  We had a terrible spring - rained nearly every day and I couldn't get on with anything - drove me absolutely nuts.

'best
LJ


Not at all had surgery Thurs. 45 min operation turned into 4 and half hour surgery.

http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=48755.0

John

Offline little john

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2016, 09:15:36 AM »
Strewth, John - that's some injury !  As others have already commented, it's now a question of getting your priorities in order.  And - even after your injuries are healed, it'll still take time to build-up your muscular strength again.  So - take it slow and easy. 

You might want to consider working your way through some of the old beekeeping books as a form of occupational therapy ?  I've got quite a few (mainly in .djvu format) which I've pulled off the Internet - I'll send 'em to you if the idea appeals.

Best wishes from across the pond for a full recovery.
LJ
A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping - http://heretics-guide.site90.com

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2016, 10:24:24 AM »
Thank-you I would love to checkout some of the old books. I have read a few years ago. I would not hurt to refresh my mind on some the old ways. 

Send me a PM.

John

Offline chester5731

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2016, 01:23:57 PM »
I may have to try building some of those myself. One question is how do you keep them from sinking in the ground so they stay somewhat lever?

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2016, 02:50:28 PM »



Not at all had surgery Thurs. 45 min operation turned into 4 and half hour surgery.

http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=48755.0

John

John,

In another string you said there would be multiple surgeries.  Any idea when and how many?

LJ, those are handsome stands.  Keep posting photos of your work, particularly stuff you make from scraps.

Gary
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2016, 03:37:38 PM »
Won't know till 27 th. Then more CT and MRIs  to locate more damage areas. They could not see a lot because of all the blood in shoulder and arm. They was able to get one muscle and two tendons back and place temporary thing for the cartilage that was destroyed. But as he said they
Have to go in stages. I'm hoping what others there maybe will be less drastic.
I'll keep everyone posted and thank-you all for the thoughts and prayers. Just a side note. Woke to helicopter flying over the property. Called police and DNR and ag. dept. They sprayed a cutover next door to kill off everything but the pines. Now I have lost all my crop here at this yard for the year. They failed to give public notice so I had police report made for the DNR and for possible losses. When it rain on me it more of cyclone than shower.

John

Offline little john

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2016, 07:36:17 AM »
I may have to try building some of those myself. One question is how do you keep them from sinking in the ground so they stay somewhat lever?

Now that's a VERY good question ...

I use 'foot pads' made either from pallet plank offcuts, or whenever I come across a twisted plank, I dice it up into 6" lengths - as trying to work with twisted wood is more trouble than it's worth.

These pads, typically 6" x 4" serve two purposes - they stop the legs from sinking into soft ground, and also keep the ends of the legs from rotting due to being in contact with wet soil.
Even though I paint the leg ends with waterproof glue, then apply a couple of coats of paint on top of that, I still reckon that wood rot is possible if the ends are constantly damp.  I don't paint the pads  - they're scrap wood and thus disposable.

One other aspect of these stands I haven't mentioned, is that being angled, the top edges of the planks supporting the hive make only edge contact.  This prevents the 'wicking' of rainwater, which would otherwise occur if the plank tops were flat and held against another flat surface.  As with the foot pads, this is about the prevention of wood rot when using softwoods - especially the low quality stuff, which is all I tend to acquire.
LJ

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Online sc-bee

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2016, 08:31:02 PM »
Got me thinking how can I do a long run for a few hives?
John 3:16

Offline Jim 134

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2016, 06:25:05 AM »
   
    Something  you may like to read bee for using pallets. For bee hives projects
     
     If you would like to read the markings on a pallets. You could tell what they were preserved with the wood. Here's a chart. Hope this helps you out in your quest for wood. If you read the very end of the chart. Australia and New Zealand can use both Heat and fumigated on the same pallet. It looks like Australia and New Zealand add Methyl Bromide upon arrival .
It appears that the pallets are not restamp for this chemical. All I can say buyer beware.
http://www.1001pallets.com/pallet-safety/

           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline little john

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2016, 06:47:17 AM »
Before people get too paranoid about using pallets which have been fumigated (perhaps some months or years ago) with Methyl Bromide, do bear in mind that it's a naturally occurring compound, with an estimated 56,000 tons of it being produced annually by marine organisms, and certain plants - particularly brassicas (sprouts, cabbages, cauliflowers) - producing small quantities of this gas.

And - is there any evidence whatsoever of even a single bee dying as a result of a beehive being made from pallets treated with Methyl Bromide ?  I don't know of any.
LJ
A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping - http://heretics-guide.site90.com

Offline Jim 134

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2016, 06:56:16 AM »
Reply #28
This is for those who like to make educated choices. Apparently you've already made yours.


           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 07:26:13 AM by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline little john

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2016, 07:54:00 AM »
Reply #28
This is for those who like to make educated choices. Apparently you've already made yours.

Educated ?  Don't make me laugh.

Methyl Bromide is a short-acting fumigant.  I've said this before, but those without even a basic grounding in organic chemistry are persisting in promoting this scare-story.

Quote
Methyl bromide is frequently used for fumigating timber, agricultural products, empty containers, food stuffs, and other agricultural produce. When fumigation is carried out with Methyl Bromide fumigant, there will not be any residual issues as aeration can be carried out easily. It is very effective in controlling insects at all stages; from egg to the adult stage.

As per International Plant Protection conversion Methyl bromide is an approved fumigant which can be used for treating export cargo containing wooden packing materials.

Fumigants only control existing infestations in the cargo they do not provide any residual protection against subsequent re-infestation. Consequently timber treated by fumigation must be packed in container or shipped within 21 days of treatment. During this 21 day period it should be stored safely or cross infestation may occur.

http://www.fumigationservice.com/methyl-bromide.htm

I wonder how many more times I must try to correct this b/s ?

LJ
A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping - http://heretics-guide.site90.com

Offline Jim 134

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2016, 08:46:52 AM »
I wonder why I would use a product that has been ban for inside house use.
(Methyl Bromide)  To be use in my bee hives?
Hope you have a good day.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/jennifer-sass/methyl-bromide-pesticide-long-banned-indoor-home-uses-suspected-severely


      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 08:41:38 AM by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Duane

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2016, 08:39:52 PM »
Maybe you could clue me in why when using a gas, no matter how toxic, to treat a product, and if the product does not absorb, adsorb, or otherwise contain the gas, why would it be of a concern?

As another example, you would not give your bees cyanide gas, but if someone else treated the lumber with cyanide gas prior to you building a box, would there be any concern?

A gas dissipates.  Now if it was a liquid, it would/could be a different story such as with arsenic soaked and impregnated lumber.

Offline little john

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2016, 04:31:05 AM »
More on Methyl Bromide ...

When it comes to discussing issues related to Organic Chemistry - and Methyl Bromide of course is an organic chemical - I happen to be more qualified than Randy Oliver ... however, I'm mindful that I don't have the same credibility Randy has justifiably developed within beekeeping circles, thanks in part to his excellent website and the numerous in-depth articles published there - and so it was Randy Oliver I turned to for advice regarding how best to deal with this persistent nonsensical allegation of aged pallets which had previously been treated with Methyl Bromide still being considered hazardous to honey bees, many months after that treatment.

Although Randy shared my view that the prospect of any Methyl Bromide remaining within pallet timber a month or so after it's administration was zero, he suggested that an experiment be conducted to test for the off-gassing from any residual Methyl Bromide, together with a suitable control hive.

And so I duly set-up the experiment Randy had outlined, but using 'HT' (Heat Treated) pallet wood as a control, rather than an empty box. After seven days of intimate contact with 'MB' and 'HT' timbers, the two colonies under test were indistinguishable from each other, thus supporting our prediction that - in practice - there is no risk of off-gassing of any Methyl Bromide from treated pallets a month or two after it's initial application to them.

I received an email from Randy earlier this evening in which he writes:
Quote
Thanks XXXX,
As you likely guessed, I'm hardly surprised by your results.  Thanks for
taking the time to test--most people are too damn lazy to do so.

Thanks for the photos and experiment--I've saved them in case the
discussion ever comes up.

Best,
Randy

So there we have it - proof (if proof were ever really needed) that pallets treated 'once upon a time' with Methyl Bromide are - after testing - safe to use in the construction of bee hives.  Anyone who alleges otherwise will now need to provide concrete experimental evidence to support their claims. 

The creation of a scare story is not the same as providing factual information from which to make an educated choice.  The reason 'MB' is branded onto treated pallets is not as a warning to future users (which is how it appears to be perceived), but as confirmation that the wood has been treated and is thus insect-free at the time of manufacture and therefore safe for international transportation.

LJ
A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping - http://heretics-guide.site90.com

Offline Jim 134

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2016, 04:11:27 PM »
You do realize EPA in United States is trying to phase out Methyl Bromide for air pollution. If It is safe as you say it is I wonder why they're trying to do this?

https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/methyl-bromide



      BEE HAPPY  Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2016, 04:25:33 PM »
I have had very personal dealings with EPA in pass and am working with them right now. As with all things. Something newer with better results comes along and it changes. But as I was told by reps in EPA some new things  sometimes end up being worst. Because alot of the studies are after the fact. And EPA regs are based on percentage of advantages over disadvantages.

So it basically comes down to personal decision. Due what you think is best.


Good best of luck in you endeavors.

John

Bee happy

Offline gww

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2016, 09:26:11 PM »
Made something simular to yours.[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Cheers
gww

Offline Duane

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2016, 01:51:31 PM »
You do realize EPA in United States is trying to phase out Methyl Bromide for air pollution. If It is safe as you say it is I wonder why they're trying to do this?
I'm not sure anyone is saying Methyl Bromide is safe.  What I heard being said is that pallets which no longer have any toxic gas in them is safe.
Quote
So there we have it - proof (if proof were ever really needed) that pallets treated 'once upon a time' with Methyl Bromide are - after testing - safe to use in the construction of bee hives.
Pallets was the subject of the sentence, not Methyl Bromide.

Now, whether pallet manufacturers or anyone else should use Methyl Bromide for treating against insects is a whole other issue regarding the environment.  But that's not what's being discussed, about using such past treated, and no longer contaminated, pallets for bee keeping.

Offline minz

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Re: A touch of Pallet Engineering ...
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2016, 09:14:24 PM »
Looks pretty good to me but where are the triangles? Triangles give massive strength and keep it from racking without relying on the fasteners or glue.  A piece of wood from corner to center on each side increases the strength exponentially.  Any bridge, truss or frame uses triangles to reduce the amount of material to add strength.  JM2C
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