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Author Topic: There Must Be An Easier Way  (Read 2326 times)

Offline PhilK

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There Must Be An Easier Way
« on: August 02, 2016, 09:29:22 PM »
G'day all,

So we are looking at expanding our little operation from 5 colonies to 11 colonies. This will need a lot of construction. At the moment I am hand nailing finger-joint boxes together then hand painting them, hand nailing frames one by one, wiring with a wiring device, and embedding with an electric embedder.

- making frames one by one is probably the worst part of the whole thing. Is there a better way to do this? Even if I have to purchase a tool to save me from hand nailing I will (as long as it isn't ridiculous!) Suggestions?
- we will be buying rabeted joint supers so I don't have to put 44 nails into a hive box

Any other time saving tips?

While I am on the subject of construction, we have a 12V electric embedder. We use a 6V battery (the type with the two springs on it) but t's very slow. What's the best thing to use? I've seen people tap the button a few times and have the wire embedded. We have to hold it on there for 20 secs

Offline Psparr

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 09:55:16 PM »
Search the forum for a frame jig. Simple to make.

For the embedder you could wire two of those batteries in series to make your 12 Volts. I've also seen an 18 Volt drill battery used.

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 11:22:04 PM »
Eighteen volt rechargeable battery would work great. Put a inline fuse to keep from burning battery up. A jump box with tap switch would bee better. Use a medium box with slot for wood arm to go thru to lock side bars in then just install bottom boards. Flip put top bars on pull arms out  wala. Frames done. Get a 1 inch to one half inch Brad gun to asemble frames.  Get a one and half inch staple gun air operated  to assemble boxes with. Get the best you can afford so it will last  and pay for its self.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 12:26:20 AM »
When you are making your frames are you shaping a 2x12 and then slicing the end boards?
This will save you a lot of time.
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline PhilK

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 12:57:55 AM »
I am super unhandy, so unfortunately most of what divemaster just told me zoomed right over my head.. inline fuse? Jump box with tap switch? No idea!
Frame components are ready made - top bottom and side bars

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 01:06:00 AM »
I am super unhandy, so unfortunately most of what divemaster just told me zoomed right over my head.. inline fuse? Jump box with tap switch? No idea!
Frame components are ready made - top bottom and side bars

On the 12 volt embedded. You need at least 12 volts. Use a 12 car battery. Neg wire to neg batter terminal. On positive side   place button switch to positive wire then to a car inline fuse. ( get one from car parts store.) Then to positive battery post. To embedded wire place on wire and tap the button twice. The fuse just keeps everything safe. So battery does not blow up.

John

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 11:32:15 AM »
>So we are looking at expanding our little operation from 5 colonies to 11 colonies. This will need a lot of construction. At the moment I am hand nailing finger-joint boxes together

Box jig:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesboxjig.htm
which I nail together using 1/4" crown staples 1 1/2" long unless I find time to screw them with deck screws.
https://www.amazon.com/DWFP1838R-18-Gauge-Stapler-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B018A50O2K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1470234326&sr=8-2&keywords=1%2F4+inch+crown+stapler

> then hand painting them

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm

> hand nailing frames one by one

I have a frame jig and I staple them together with 1/4" crown staples 1" long.
https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/42/Hives-Components/Frame-Accessories/3969/Universal-Frame-Nailing-Device
https://www.amazon.com/DWFP1838R-18-Gauge-Stapler-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B018A50O2K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1470234326&sr=8-2&keywords=1%2F4+inch+crown+stapler

> wiring with a wiring device, and embedding with an electric embedder.

I used to do that with these:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm#wiringtools

Now I do foundationless.  Much less work...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

>- making frames one by one is probably the worst part of the whole thing. Is there a better way to do this?

Yes!

>Even if I have to purchase a tool to save me from hand nailing I will (as long as it isn't ridiculous!) Suggestions?
- we will be buying rabeted joint supers so I don't have to put 44 nails into a hive box

And you won't have 44 nails holding the box together... and you have to make sure you get them lined up right where the finger joints align themselves already.  Just knock them tight together...

>While I am on the subject of construction, we have a 12V electric embedder. We use a 6V battery (the type with the two springs on it) but t's very slow. What's the best thing to use? I've seen people tap the button a few times and have the wire embedded. We have to hold it on there for 20 secs

I reworked it a bit (see above link on wiring tools) but this came from here:
https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/43/Hives-Components/Foundation-Accessories/4288/Electric-Embedder

This is the transformer (though it's for 110v):
https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/43/Hives-Components/Foundation-Accessories/4659/Transformer

It takes about 4 seconds.  If you made it any shorter you'd burn through too many of the foundations...

My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 12:16:52 PM »
I am super unhandy, so unfortunately most of what divemaster just told me zoomed right over my head.. inline fuse? Jump box with tap switch? No idea!
Frame components are ready made - top bottom and side bars

On the 12 volt embedded. You need at least 12 volts. Use a 12 car battery. Neg wire to neg batter terminal. On positive side   place button switch to positive wire then to a car inline fuse. ( get one from car parts store.) Then to positive battery post. To embedded wire place on wire and tap the button twice. The fuse just keeps everything safe. So battery does not blow up.

John
John, Phil needs to know what size wire and fuse you are using. Very important, too small and the wire will just burn, too large and it takes too long top heat up and blows the battery. Too small of a fuse and it blows the second you tap it, too large and it does not protect the battery.
Jim

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 05:20:23 PM »
Five to ten amp  works. I use 16- 18 guage wire. Get wire from junked computers. Inline fuse from them also.   The tapbutton switch is just a two bolts with a bent peace of metal with rubber on one end to just push on to close the circuit then pops up when I lift my fingers. A soon as I can I'll go out to my shop and get mine and take some photos for him.

John

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2016, 10:36:31 PM »
Thanks John
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Wombat2

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2016, 12:31:06 AM »
Phill - a cheap power source for your wire embedded is a halogen downlight transformer - 12 volt output. Usually have a lead with plug for the 240 input out easy to hook up. Make your own tool

I'm giving up of foundation all together and going foundationless - saves a lot of time
David L

Offline PhilK

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2016, 01:27:33 AM »
Thanks guys - appreciate it. Wombat, would somewhere like Bunnings stock those?

I am thinking of getting one of these - https://www.bunnings.com.au/ryobi-one-18v-cordless-crown-stapler_p6210550

It would be good for making up lids, bottoms, and frames. Would it be OK for hive bodies or is it better to screw supers together?

Offline Jamie

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2016, 04:23:51 AM »
Hi Phil,

I'm using a Ryobi 2 in 1 to put 12mm staples through the 8x20mm rider on the weathertex for bases. I plan to use a heavier 38mm staple for the boxes and 25-32mm one for the ends of the lids and the 12mm one to hold the ply down on the lids.

Ask me how it went next week.

Offline PhilK

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2016, 12:14:10 AM »
Well the stapler makes life a lot easier - now I just need to make a frame jig to make multiple frames at once.. does anybody use a box jig? Hard time keeping boxes square when putting them together. Bought a few clamps so we'll see how they go

The battery for the stapler is very good for embedding wires - sizzled through a sheet of foundation a couple of times until I got the hang of how long the button can be pressed for (not long!)

Online Lancej

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2016, 12:39:52 AM »
Hi Phil,
I am just about to start making a box jig with clamps this week, the design is in my head, if it works well I will take a few photos and post on site. I did make a simple jig before out of timber, just to hold the box square while I glued and screwed.

Offline PhilK

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2016, 04:00:47 AM »
This is all a struggle for someone as handy-challenged as myself! Any images and help is appreciated

Offline Jamie

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2016, 05:23:34 AM »
Are you using rebated, or dovetail/box jointed supers? I'm not finding I need additional support with the dovetail boxes.

This though, this is the business for simple rebated boxes that need a bit more support.

http://www.ezyloader.com/index.php/products/ezybox-jig

Offline little john

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2016, 07:17:52 AM »
This may not be relevant, but I'll chuck it in the pot anyway ...

One of the problems I've experienced when building boxes from flat-packs, is that they nearly always develop a twist.  I took to using heavy weights when gluing-up, which initially cured the problem ... until the box had rested for a while, when the twist returned.

I've recently bought a glass-topped table, which I'm now using as a reference surface, and in many case I've found that there's a need to open-up the tongue and slot joints with a rasp, until they're sloppy. Then the box is glued-up on top of the glass table, relying on the remaining glue contact in the joints for the initial set. When set, the joints are then given additional glue to fill any remaining gaps.

The twist problem now appears to have been solved.
LJ
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Offline PhilK

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2016, 10:19:37 PM »
I was using finger joint boxes but changed to rebated boxes for this set as they are cheaper

Offline Jamie

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Re: There Must Be An Easier Way
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2016, 07:58:23 AM »
They are cheaper but you really do need a better jig when building!