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Author Topic: Warre Hives  (Read 1138 times)

Online gww

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2017, 11:01:40 AM »
Ace
I like the lang hive but have lots of area for hives and think that if a guy just wanted to throw some bees in a warre for the heck of it and the swarmed and he had a couple of traps out, it would not really be that bad.  I would think they are hard to manage due to some of the things you mention but like you, if my goal was not really to start a buisness but more to have a couple of hives and maby get a little honey here and there but not to really get hard into selling things, I think the warre is kinda neat.  I doubt I give up my few lang hives but it is an interesting thought to just put some bees in a warre and just add room and if you get a top box or two that you have to crush and strain fine and if not fine.

I just put some lemon grass oil in mine and if something moves in, I will have a warre hive, if they don't then I may never put bees in it or I might.

I look at it out in my apary and it does stand out and look kind of cool mixed in with all the langs.
Cheers
gww

Online herbhome

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2017, 08:36:28 PM »
I think there is a reason why Warre hives are not that popular with today's beekeeper.  There is too much work to keep them from swarming, there is too much work to harvest honey and without a frame going through the hive is time consuming.  Nadiring guarantees that their will be brood cocoons in the combs of honey.

That truly is a disadvantage. In a strong flow supering works just fine. Warre himself mentioned this.

Another disadvantage is they are a pain to extract. It can be done with a wire cage to place each comb in. Then the box of extracted combs can be placed right back on top of the hive.

Trying to be fair, another disadvantage of nadiring in general is lifting two or three boxes at a time is hard on my old back.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2017, 08:56:10 PM »
Two or three is barely a hive. How about 5 or 7?  That is why I think they are too much work.
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Online herbhome

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2017, 10:33:56 PM »
Two or three is barely a hive. How about 5 or 7?  That is why I think they are too much work.

I can't argue with that. :smile: We don't get the flows here that more northern bees enjoy.

Online gww

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2017, 11:50:48 PM »
As far as putting the boxes on bottom, I realize the ideal is to not get into the brood nest often but supering a hive can be based in the spring on how many bees there are.  Nothing says and infact abby does say to put several on in spring.  So even if you had to break the brood nest by box for that one time minipulation, You would not be moving far from warre's management style.  Each box weighs about what a 5 frame nuc weighs. 
You have to do the same thing with heavier boxes when you harvest honey in a lang if you have a couple supers and are using an excape board.

At least when you harvest the warre, you are talking about moving one box at about 22 lbs a piece. 

So in the end on a lang the supers go on easy and come off hard and on a warre the supers go on hard but come off easy.

I am thinking that if a guy really didn't take care of his bees and just added space and harvested that a warre would actually be easier.
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2017, 09:42:31 AM »
I don't have a Warre hive but didn't someone just say they are equivalent to a 8 frame medium?  That is more like 40 pounds per box.  With my new box jack I can jack up three boxes at a time effortlessly to slip in an escape board.  True, the next day I have to get the top box off but there are no bees in it and if they are the same weight as a Warre box then they are the same.  The only time I am in the brood chamber is when I split and usually that is just identifying where they are because I split by the box.  I don't normally move frames.  It couldn't be easier.
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Online gww

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2017, 10:45:01 AM »
Ace
You are correct on the warre and 8 frame medium being the same volume hives and also the same volume as a 5 frame deep.

Yes, I really like your lift you made.  Michael pointed out that the warre was the same as 8 frame medium.  He also promotes nardering the first medium super if you are foundationless.  I was just saying on the nardering being such a hard thing to do with a warre, that I really didn't see that as much of an issue compared to how people manage thier lang hives.  If you added early and lots of space on the bottom, you are done till august.  Heat wise the warre space being added on bottom might be an advantage.  In the big picture, doing warre as a comercial prospect (which is what abby envisioned) may not have and advantage.  However for a pure hobbist that is not treating anyway and pretty well letting the bees take care of themselves.  I don't really see how a warre is really that any harder then a lang.  For a guy looking to increase and manage for every drop of honey and bees that he can make his hive give him, then a warre really probly does not make sence.  For a person living in close contact with lots of neighbors that could cause him trouble if he lost too many swarms to the hood, I could see it being a problim
cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2017, 11:39:06 AM »
Speaking from experience here, if you do not meddle in your hives on a regular basis and just walk away, the bees WILL build to the walls and glue everything in.  Without having a physical frame in the hive you will have fun come harvest time.  I think the Warre hive is more suited for the hobbyist that wants to be in the hive all the time not out of the hive most of the time.  The Lang is more forgiving so you can do either.  It is more popular so parts are more available and because it is more popular you stand a better chance of getting resources like brood, eggs and honey from another person if the need should arise.
I see nothing wrong with having a Warre hive to play with but I will hedge my bet that you stand a better chance of a sustainable apiary with Langs.  My assumption is that most beekeepers would rather not buy bees every year or every two years.
Edit:
I don't think you will get away with just throwing empty boxes at a smallish hive even in my area which is not that plagued with small hive beetles.
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Online gww

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Re: Warre Hives
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2017, 12:57:00 PM »
Ace
I plan on keeping my langs too.  As far as small hive beetle.  I went through 4 over wintered hives with my mentor of sorts and even on his biggest ones, they had hive beatles running all over the place.  I am thinking due to the warmth of the winter that they are going to be a real issue this year.   

I definatly don't want to buy bees ever and this year I will probly try to expand a little just because I have lots of equiptment built.  If I end up with bees in the warre which is questionable, it will be because a swarm moved in them on there own.  I do think that if I get some in it, that I will probly not work them too hard but I have the same comb guides it them and I put on the top bar of my langs and if the bees follow the guide, I am thinking a bread knife along the hive walls would free the combs up pretty easy.  They should be much easier to handle then the top bar long hives just due to them not being so massive and the fact that you can get to them from the bottom.

I have watched the michael palmer vidios of him inspecting his nucs where he does not pull frames but just looks from the bottom of the hive and pushes the combs sideways to look up the center.

I might be in for a rude awakening but it just does not seem like it would be that hard to take the comb out one at a time if you wanted to.  I do see where the innerchangability could cause you to lose a hive cause you lost a queen and can't add a frame of brood.

I don't say a guy should want to kill bees but on the other hand, it would be interesting to see how long a hive would survive with small interventions.

I am sorta doing that with my lang hives as I have not treated for mites and am just wondering how long it will be before that takes its toll on me.  Don't know if you don't try.

So, I would consintrate my efforts on learning to manage the langs and end up with live bees and a little honey but when I feel comfortable that I won't have to buy more bees, I will probly put a sacrafice swarm in the warre and just play with it.
I love hearing people views on this stuff and try to take what they say and learn from it.

Cheers
gww
Ps  I am building everything that I use and did build all mediums for interchangability but also built the warre and built the excape board and the double screen boards and feeders and so am not buying stuff and so the warre being a little harder to buy stuff for doesn't mean much cause I don't intend on buying anything if I have a prayer of making it.

 

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