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Author Topic: How do you keep frames with empty combs? How to save the frame from the wax moth  (Read 452 times)

Offline Ukrainian beekeeper

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In Ukraine we do it like that




Here is how we keep frames with empty combs. This method is environmentally friendly, does not require a lot of money and safe for bees and people. This method helps to kick away the wax moth and other pests. In most cases mice do not touch the frame with this substance. As fast as possible after extraction we need to sprinkle frames with empty combs with ASH. Yes we use ash, wood ash from a stove or a bonfire or ash from straw. You need to sprinkle frames with empty combs with ash in the respirator. We take frames and sprinkle ash on frames from both sides how could you see in this video.
Ash is an alkali. Wax moth does not like alkali. Ash clogs the pest's airways and the wax moth will die. Also mice do not like the smell and taste of ash. When we need to put a frame with empty combs in the colony of bees we must to shake off the ash well from both sides of the frame and rinse the frame with water. Then put the wet frames in the hive. Bees occupy such frames quickly. Bees will clean the frame. Bees are thrown ash residue to the bottom of the hive. We need to clean the bottom of the hive after that because bees should easily move on the bottom of the hive when they need. Also during the cleaning bees are smeared with ashes. In such way ash helps fight with varroa mite because varroa mite does not like ash too.
There is a small amount of ash in frames and ash is wet, that why bee`s airways do not clog. There is no danger to bees. We use this method about 4 years. We know for sure, 100 % that frames with empty combs will be clean and remain intact after using this method. Such frames bees occupy fast and there are no negative consequences for bees.
Before, we used sulfur for keeping frames with empty combs. Sulfur did not give a hundred percent result that the frames remain intact. Frames with sulfur bees were occupied worse, that led to swarming. Sulfur is not an environmentally friendly substance. Also I did not use poisons for saving frames. Such poisons are not an environmentally friendly substance.
How did I discover this method? One day there was no place for part of the frames with empty combs in the storage. I put them in the workroom, where I often used angular grinding machine. There was a lot of dust in the work room. I forgot about the frames for two years. When I found them, the frames were not damaged at all. Frames were in dust. Then I realized that the wax moth is afraid of dust. Ash is dust. From that time I began to sprinkle the frames with ash.
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Online gww

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That was a nice tip.  It looks like you guys have a pretty big operation.
Thanks for the tip
gww

Online Jim 134

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This looks interesting.

     
        BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 08:01:41 AM by Jim 134 »
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Good information. Thanks.
As you show in your video, you need a place to keep the hives in where you don't mind having all the ash. I like the idea that you can just hang the frames with out worrying about them being damaged.
Jim
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 03:17:20 PM by sawdstmakr »
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline bwallace23350

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Thanks. Good information to know.

Online Jim 134

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If you're just trying to protect against wax moths. Something you might like to consider. Look up
Bacillus thuringiensis (or Bt) .. Not to expensive at least in the USA. A lot less work for bees to clean up also. If drawn  comb is kept moist free I've had it last for over 10 years. Of course it is a challenge to keep the mice out.


        BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Ukrainian beekeeper

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If you're just trying to protect against wax moths. Something you might like to consider. Look up
Bacillus thuringiensis (or Bt) .. Not to expensive at least in the USA. A lot less work for bees to clean up also. If drawn  comb is kept moist free I've had it last for over 10 years. Of course it is a challenge to keep the mice out.


        BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:

I read about using Bacillus thuringiensis in beekeeping. It is interesting and save, as I understand, but effects of use BT only one year, and if you use Ash, your frames will be not damaged by pests (not only moth, but mice too) during many years, especially if you keep frames in a closed storage. The second is the price, in our locality the price of a jar with BT (120 ml) coast 10-30 dollars. One such jar is for 50 frames. There are about 1000 frames in our apiary. Then we need 20 such jars. It is about 200-600 dollars. It is very much for us. Average earnings per year are about 1300 dollars in Ukraine. Ash is cheap and will save our frames longer. We have 3000 dollars from our apiary.

Offline iddee

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BT will last as long as the comb does. It is not for just one year, As Jim said, he has 10 year old comb that is still protected.
Try to find BT Aizawai. It is a powder and is about 20 or 30 dollars a lb.  "454 G."  0ne teaspoon per quart, or litre, will do about 100 frames.  One lb. will do thousands of frames.
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Offline tjc1

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I like hearing about such useful discoveries that use materials that are easily made at no cost that do the job - "necessity is the mother of invention" as we used to say - and do!

Online Jim 134

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      Beekeeping is very local. I understand that price and availability dictates a lot of things. It may be a little more work for me to keep the mice out. I believe as well worth it. So the bees do not have to clean the comb before being used. As a matter of fact you can actually spray BT on live bees on comb. Never seen any ill side effects. Most likely they would be if you had open brood or eggs.

                      BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Online Jim 134

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BT will last as long as the comb does. It is not for just one year, As Jim said, he has 10 year old comb that is still protected.
Try to find BT Aizawai. It is a powder and is about 20 or 30 dollars a lb.  "454 G."  0ne teaspoon per quart, or litre, will do about 100 frames.  One lb. will do thousands of frames.

5ml per litre, will do about 100 frames.  454gm package will do thousands of frames.

https://www.amazon.com/Xentari-XenTari-BT/dp/B004CZ1MOM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1490233902&sr=8-7&keywords=bacillus+thuringiensis


                               BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Online gww

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However if you only make $3000 and you have a thousand frames, then $30 is still quite a bit of money.  Free is better if it works and if it causes no other harm.  But I am a real cheap guy. If it doesn't hurt the bees and the bees clean the comb well enough that it does not cause cancer and if it works, My view is it is a better ideal then having to spend money.
Cheers
gww

Online Jim 134

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However if you only make $3000 and you have a thousand frames, then $30 is still quite a bit of money.  Free is better if it works and if it causes no other harm.  But I am a real cheap guy. If it doesn't hurt the bees and the bees clean the comb well enough that it does not cause cancer and if it works, My view is it is a better ideal then having to spend money.
Cheers
gww

I see you're stuck on the price. At the rate of a thousand frames a year. I would dare say this bag would like you 20 years. So the price comes down to like a $1.50 per year.The bees can use immediately without any cleanup. I would rather have my bees collect nectar then to be cleaning house.

          BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Online gww

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jim
Is there a expireation date on BT?  I am not trying to convince other people to use ashes with my post.  I am too new to be doing that.  I do like to file little things away in my brain that really do work and so if the ashes work, I like to know it.  I am cheap and perhaps mentally unstable when it come to my lazyness and dislike of going to the store for anything.  I don't like shopping although I don't mind the stuff that is shipped to my door quite as bad.  I also like the ideals of individuals that come up with things that work on thier own with out needing prossessed items.  I just like tie ideal of that.  It doesn't always work better.  I built my own smoker and used it for my first year and my bought smoker does work better.

Cheers
gww

Online Jim 134

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       I have no idea if Bt has and expiration date or not. All I can tell you Bt is actually a bacteria. If I wax moth every eats Bt. The bacteria will multiply exponentially on the Comb. I know I have been using some package for over 10 years old. It is still effective in defending against wax moths. I just
store mine in my closet. I would not suggest any sunlight to hit it while in storage. Do not let water hit it while in storage. For myself I probably will use more than $2 or so per year. On soap and water. For me to clean up personally if I use ashes.


             BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Ukrainian beekeeper

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We did not use BT. We read in the online store that the time of action BT year. Your experience shows that this is not so. This is a plus for BT.  Each beekeeper uses what he likes best. BTs require less time for processing the frames. But it is more expensive than ash. BT does not protect against mice. There are many places where mice are a huge problem. For example, we have this. In our region, mice often climb into a hive and eat the entire colony. When using ash, frames are also stored for a very long time. Ash is alkali. Alkali protects against fungal diseases, too. Not only from moths and mice. This is a cheap and effective alternative.
I'm not saying that BT is bad. Just to each his own.

Offline Duane

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One wonders what would happen if you put ashes underneath the hive and small hive beetle larva exited the hive and dropped down on it? 

Offline minz

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Good idea but the timing is backwards. I have ash in winter / spring  :grin:
I noted that the bees get covered in ash and the claim was made that it assists with V. Mite. Sounds likely since acid works-I would think that the caustic would as well.

Poor decisions make the best stories.