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Author Topic: building frames  (Read 4913 times)

Offline johnnie

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building frames
« on: March 06, 2011, 02:35:53 am »
the bottom 2/3 of a frame is narrower than the top to create a bee space between the frames. MY question is how do you reduce or shave this edge down to build your own frames.I have some thought on this like mayeb a planer or a sander.
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Offline ronwhite3030

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Re: building frames
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2011, 03:30:03 am »
I use a datto blade but I do not suggest it if you are not a seasoned woodworker, use a stop at the end of the blade so the frame can only go so far into the blade for shallows I believe it is 3.5"and use a piece of 3/4" attached to your fence with the sawblade nothed out so that you can cover the blade and make sure you have a tight fitting and level blade cover insert so your pieces dont dip of fall into you blade that will result in crappy looking endbars and prone to getting your finger in the blade. the other thing is make your notches in the indbars before you do the sides.

These are the frames I made.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,29950.0.html
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: building frames
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 04:05:47 am »
I just finished up making 130 home made medium frames.  It is a job to make frames from scratch.  Glad I did it once; I’m not sure I’ll do it again.

I just cut all parts of my frames 1” wide and then glued and stapled them all up.  Later I added on 3/8” spacers to replicate the functionality of the Hoffman style end bars.

If you want to replicate the Hoffman end bars exactly, a band saw might be an option.  You might be able to cut 4 at a time with a band saw.  It would be a slow process. 

Ron, you do beautiful work.  Glad to hear you got yourself a treadmill motor too.
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Offline ronwhite3030

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Re: building frames
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 04:14:47 am »
Thanks blue and ya it seems to work great, I made a bushing up for my pulley to see how it worked but I will machine one or have it machined because it is not even and the belt walks all over and eventually falls off, it was just a mock-up though so I will post when I actually get it completed, there is quite a bit of torque needed to get it going so I just give it my helping hand and it goes by itself after that other wise the pulley on the motor just spins and the belt stays still.
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Offline Jim134

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Re: building frames
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2011, 05:50:16 am »
Quote from: johnnie on March 06, 2011, 02:35:53 am
the bottom 2/3 of a frame is narrower than the top to create a bee space between the frames. MY question is how do you reduce or shave this edge down to build your own frames.I have some thought on this like mayeb a planer or a sander.


 Use a jointer  plane
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer


 BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)
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Offline Countryboy

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Re: building frames
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 01:20:40 am »
You can cut the beeways with a bandsaw or scrollsaw.

If you are well acquainted with woodworking tools, you can cut beeways with a table saw.  For those not well acquainted with woodworking tools, I'm afraid to say publicly how, as idiots would likely try it and injure themselves.  Folks with woodworking experience know round blades can cut more than straight cuts.
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Offline Humanbeeing

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Re: building frames
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 05:13:07 pm »
I made a couple hundred frames once, but I went to my Psychiatrist and he told me it was only a passing phase.
To make the end bar beespace, I would use a router table, with the fence, and a stop block. Just push it thru to the block, turn it over, and do it again. Keeps the fingers a reasonable distance from the bit.
 When people start using a table saw for small pieces like that..well, just be careful, and use a push stick.
They are really cheap enough that I wouldn't waste my time with them.
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HELP! I accidently used Drone eggs with the Hopkins method and I got Drag Queens!!!

Offline BlueBee

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Re: building frames
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2011, 07:01:38 pm »
For any manager types out there, I did decide to log some metrics as I was making my 130 home made foundationless frames. 

My total material cost per frame turned out to be 42 cents/frame.  That is impressive. 

However, it took me 15 hours to make the first batch of 80 frames.  That’s not including break time or chit chat time.  Breaking that down per frame, it took an amazingly long 11.25 minutes per frame.  That is the time from raw wood to a completely finished frame.  That means on average, 1 hour of labor output slightly over 5 frames. 

If I were to assume my labor is worth at least MINUMUM wage of say $7, each frame cost $1.82.

Looking at my newest bee magazines, it looks like the going rate for frames in quantities of 100 is about 80 cents.  It is hard to justify making your own frames except for the unique experience of doing it once.
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Offline hardwood

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Re: building frames
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2011, 07:10:20 pm »
I get my unassembled wedge top frames for .47. Although I have a full cabinet shop it wouldn't make sense to make my own.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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Offline BlueBee

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Re: building frames
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2011, 07:33:30 pm »
Thanks for that good news Scott, I don’t think I’ll be making any more from scratch!  It was an experience.

My next most labor intensive job is painting my hives.  I need some tips on speeding that process up.  From the sound of your video Scott, it sounded like you might be using an electric paint sprayer?  What works best, an air sprayer or electric?
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Offline hardwood

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Re: building frames
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2011, 07:42:13 pm »
Airless sprayer ( commercial Grayco) puts out 3000lb/psi. It gets the job done quick but costs a good bit.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline Countryboy

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Re: building frames
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2011, 10:13:37 pm »
When people start using a table saw for small pieces like that..well, just be careful, and use a push stick.

*sigh*

This is what I was talking about.

I certainly hope no one tries to cut beeways with a table saw, one piece at a time.  This is the sort of idiotic thing that would result in the injury I warned about.

You take a board cut to the length and width of your end bars.  You cut the beeway cut on both side of the board, the whole length of the board.  You cut the grooves with a dado blade in the sides of the board.  Then you cut the end bars from the board.  The endbars will be ready to assemble (unless you want holes drilled for wiring) as soon as you cut them from the board.

If you cut out individual end bars from the board, and then tried to cut your beeways and dado your slots in the individual pieces, that would be asking for an accident.
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Offline Humanbeeing

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Re: building frames
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2011, 11:03:29 pm »
A lot of folks don't have a table saw that will safely run a Dado blade. I just stated a different way of getting it done, which happens to be safer than using a table saw. I am sorry if I offended you countryboy, but I don't feel anyone has the last word when it come to safety.
But, let me say, you are right and I am wrong.
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HELP! I accidently used Drone eggs with the Hopkins method and I got Drag Queens!!!

Offline fish_stix

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Re: building frames
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2011, 10:31:19 am »
A six inch jointer (or 8 inch) is the best way. Plane the stock to 1 3/8" thick, cut to length, dado top and bottom bar grooves, then use the jointer with a stop block to cut the side recess. After all that then slice individual end bars off on a band saw. At the price of frames why bother? Buy them, and spend all that time with the bees.  :-D
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