Author Topic: New screen bottom board design (Read 23407 times)

Hethen57 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2010, 02:32:32 pm »

Thanks for the reference to your site...so it looks like you have a frame around the wire made from strips of aluminum? How do you attach that frame to the wire? I've tried making a frame out of wood and the thin strips of wood just don't hold up very well in our cold damp winters. Aluminum would be much better, I just can't tell from those pictures if you sandwiched the wire between strips of aluminum or what? Thanks.
-Mike

gaucho10 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2010, 08:51:03 pm »

That's just what I did. I took a piece of aluminum and cut it to length. The width could be 2 times whatever thikness you want it. I think I used 1" on one and 2" on anotherone. I then fold it in half, put the screen into it and press together. If you can manage keeping one long strip to go the whole perimeter of the screen thats better but you can make each side individual. If you do each side individual you will have to either solder or use rivets. SMALL rivets and a hammer work well. It works for me. I can see how wood would not hold but aluminum is stiff enough. You can also take a thin strip and dado it using silicone to hold the screen in place. That could be a little tricky. I like the aluminum idea. If you use the 2" width and fold it in half it works pretty good.

gaucho10 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2011, 11:42:41 am »

Folks....for those who are interested......After using my single hive design of a heated screened bottom board sometime around the start of 2010 2 out of 3 of my hives made it through the winter in good health. At the end of 2010 I designed a 4-hive screened bottom board which included a 20 ft. heat tape. (See picture below). Throughout the winter I kept a record on temperatures outside the hive and compared them with temperatures in-between the 4 hive bodies which were externally insulated.

I checked my four hives 3 days ago when temperatures climbed into the 60's. Included bellow are my readings for the winter season. All four of my hives made it through in good health with PLENTY of remaining honey and pollen.

BTW......for those who DO have moisture problems or for those who are interested....I have had NO moisture problems all winter. No fungus growing inside or on dead bees. I attribute this to the use of the ventilated upper cover and the screen bottom board.

Those are my thoughts...

   Temperature comparisons:

10/13/10   Installed all 4 hives on new base. Temps in the 40's at night.
10/13/10   Merged hive #5 above hive #4 with newspaper. (D-M-M)
10/15/10   Outside temp. = 43 deg. F- Hive temp 52 deg. F.
10/17/10   Outside temp. = 50 Deg. F- Hive temp. 59 deg. F.
10/18/10   Outside temp = 35 deg. F - Hive temp. 46 deg. F.****Outside = 40 F-- Hive = 49 F
10/19/10   Outside = 33 deg. F - Hive = 44 deg. F
11/02/10   Outside = 29 deg. F - Hive = 47 deg. F
11/03/10   Outside = 21 deg. F - Hive = 38 deg. F @ 2 AM
11/04/10   Outside = 29 deg. F - Hive = 44 deg. F @ 3 AM
11/23/10   Outside = 59 deg. F - Hive = 72 deg. F @ 3 PM
11/28/10   Outside = 25 deg. F - Hive = 41 deg. F @ 12:40 AM
11/28/10   Outside = 21 deg. F - Hive = 36 deg. F @ 07:45 AM
12/04/10   Outside = 35 deg. F - Hive = 41 deg. F @ 9 AM
01/01/11   Outside Temp. = 52℉ - Hive Temp. = 59℉ @ 12:00 PM
01/01/11   Temperatures today at 3 PM climbed up to 56℉.
01/11/11   Outside temp. = 10℉ - Hive temp. 32℉ @ 7 AM
01/14/11   Outside temp. = 6.5℉ - Hive temp. 27℉ @ 7 PM
01/15/11   Outside temp. = -3.4℉ - Hive temp. = 16.2℉ @ 2:15 AM
01/15/11   Outside temp. = -4.1℉ - Hive temp. = 15℉ @ 3:15 AM
01/23/10   Outside temp. = -8.5℉ - Hive temp. = 11.7℉ @ 3:30 AM
02/04/11   Outside temp. = -4℉ - Hive temp. = 18℉ @ 5:50 AM --- Hives with approx. 3 ft. of snow all
   around.
02/11/11   Outside temp. = -6.5℉ - Hive temp. = 18℉ @ 5:40 AM
02/14/11   Outside temp. = 50℉ and bees were flying all around.
02/15/11   Outside temp. = 21℉ - Hive temp. = 36℉ @ 6:10 AM
02/17/11   Outside temp. = 37°F - Hive temp. = 48°F @ 9 AM
02/18/11   Outside temp. = 56°F - Hive temp. = 62°F @ 4:20 PM
02/22/11   Outside temp. = 9°F - Hive temp. = 23°F @ 7:20 AM
02/24/11   Outside temp. = 5ºF - Hive temp. = 22ºF @ 5:20 AM
02/24/11   Outside temp. = 40ºF - Hive temp. = 46ºF @ 4:00 PM
02/25/11   Outside temp. = 33ºF - Hive temp. 49ºF @ 7 AM
02/28/11   Outside temp. = 37ºF - Hive temp. = 50ºF @ 1:30 PM---cloudy/foggy/drizzle
03/05/11   Outside temp. = 51ºF - Hive temp. = 58ºF @ 2 PM.

PICS TO BE UL SOON (AFTER I FIGURE OUT HOW) :roll:

gaucho10 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2011, 12:01:00 pm »

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

BlueBee · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2011, 05:56:22 pm »

Guacho10, I just stumbled upon this thread. I love experimenting and hence loved your work.

I used electric heat on some small nucs this winter and they all survived. A couple were only 2 to 3 medium frames. I used power resistors potted in cement for my heat source. Un potted, the resistors reach 180F, potted they get to 100F.

My hive temps were much warmer than you’re reporting; they probably never got under 40F and were usually in the 60s inside. Outside we got down to -6F. The bees didn’t eat any more than 1 medium frame of honey all winter and did not brood up early. However I did have a problem. The warmer temps were also good for wax moths. I was out killing wax moths in the snow!

I had used a bottom heater box similar to what you described but I’m redesigning that now. The problem I found was the wax moths would go under the #8 mesh and multiply where the bees couldn’t get to them. Some wax moths would even live on the wax capping that fell thru. I would imagine a similar problem would occur in SHB country.

Thanks for sharing your work, very interesting.

gaucho10 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2011, 08:21:48 pm »

BlueBee,
Thanks for the come-back.

<I used electric heat on some small nucs this winter and they all survived. A couple were only 2 to 3 medium frames.>

WOW!!! That is interesting. Small hives that survived!!!

<I used power resistors potted in cement for my heat source. Un potted, the resistors reach 180F, potted they get to 100F.>

Without getting too far off topic...Would you mind explaining "potted in cement"and "un potted"? Bear in mind that myself and perhaps other readers might not be electrically ~~charged~~ challenged.

The heat coil I used is basically a tape for preventing frozen pipes. To give you an idea...this tape puts out 3W/ft. and I used 20 ft. of tape. The controller turns on at 32ºF and shuts off at 50ºF.

gaucho10

BlueBee · « **Reply #26 on:** March 19, 2011, 09:25:34 pm »

My belief is that you can over winter very small colonies if you provide for the lack of heater bees with artificial heat and/or insulation. Next winter I’m going to try to winter mini mating nucs if I can solve my wax moth problems.

I really liked your heater tape solution. You’ve got a nice elegant design with a built in controller. A shut off temp of 50F is probably about ideal for a full sized hive. Some of the old books claim slightly warmer temps enhance survivability with the trade off of more stores consumed. At 50F though, you should not have to worry about wax moths.

I’m a little more insulated than you are. My hives have 2” EPS foam on all sides. Like you, I have no moisture problems whatsoever. Dry as a bone in there.

I was going to create a new post showing my latest batch of potted heaters and how I made them. Until I get around to doing that, here’s an earlier link talking about them and showing them before they are potted.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,31071.0.html

I think I bought about 100 2watt power resistors for $1 in total. I pot them using a bag of mortar which makes about 30 10watt heaters. So for about $5, I have 30 heaters (10 watts each).

“Potting” is a term used to describe covering something with an insulating material, water proofing material, or thermal material, etc. In this case, I’m just sticking my raw power resistors (see the link) in cement molds and pouring mortar on top for the purpose of acting as a heat sink for the resistors. Without a heat sink of some sort, the resistors surface temps get to 180F and that could catch something on fire in the hive. When embedded in cement, the resistors still put out the same amount of heat, but the surface area is larger and dissipates more heat. The net result is a heater with a surface temp of about 100F instead of 180F and still putting out 10 watts of heat. Actually the surface temp is moderate enough that the dang wax moths often spin their cocoons right on the heaters!!!

Sparky · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2011, 12:00:31 am »

VERY NICE Rich. The sweet thing about your design is it can easily adapted to many methods of heat source such as BlueBees and more. GREAT WORK!! ;) Is the solar for just the fence charger or is it your power source for the heat also ?

gaucho10 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2011, 09:16:21 am »

Sparky, the solar pack is for my electric fence. Electric fence is for "skunks, coyotes and bears" OH MY!.....

But......funny you should ask......I was thinking of using solar for the same reasons as we are discussing. NOW that BlueBee mentioned his OTHER "resistors potted in cement" idea I will have to take a look. Just for interest sake you know :-D.

OK...now for a couple of the down-falls I had with my design...

   1. After I placed my 4 hives together last Fall I had to insert a narrow piece of pine in-between the exterior face of the hive bodies.
   This piece was to close off the gap between the hive bodies (~3") in order to keep unwanted creatures from building a nest within
   the cavity. I made these pieces to fit really tight in an upright position. After this installation I would then enclose the hives with
   my exterior insulation. It worked fine till sometime around February 15 at which time I noticed that one of those blocks had
   either fallen in or was pushed in, creating an access point. I kept checking it once in a while to make sure that nothing was living
   in between the hive bodies. On March 17 I took everything apart and relocated my four hives back to their original location in my
   bee yard. This is when I noticed that a pair of field mice have accessed the platform and had actually made their way trough the
   plug that separates the cavity space from the heat tape area underneath the platform. After removing the "slider" panels off the
   bottom I discovered a mouse nest and two residents. Luckily I caught it in time. The nest was recently built with hardly any
   urine or mouse droppings on the trays and none of the wires were damaged. No critters had access to the interior of the hive
   bodies because of the #8 screened bottom. SOMETHING TO CORRECT for next season.


   2. On 12/27/10 we got a blizzard with strong winds and several feet of snow. The winds were strong enough to remove a 4' X 4',
   1/2" piece of plywood that I had covering the four hive bodies. This plywood was weighted down with a 3' section of 6" x 6" piece
   of lumber and four granite cobble stones. When I discovered the problem I also noticed that two of my hives had the top
   telescopic covers blown off. Several inches of snow managed to fill the top empty boxes I had placed ABOVE my ventilated inner
   covers. After rectifying the problem I had thoughts that those two hives might not survive the winter. I was wrong. Apparently
   my (insulated) vented inner cover retained the hive heat well enough to allow them to survive. Next year i will have to park my
   farm tractor on top :-D.

Bee-Bop · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2011, 10:37:17 pm »

I've been using this removable screen, and removable tray for quite some time, even has slat boards built over them.

Bee-Bop

gaucho10 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 21, 2011, 04:05:05 am »

Bee-Bop, that is very similar to my previous designs of the single screened bottom boards. They work really well but I use them in the Summer season now that I built the 4-hive SBB. I don't have one with a slated rack. My slated racks are optional :-D

BlueBee · « **Reply #31 on:** March 21, 2011, 06:02:49 pm »

Gaucho, what are your thoughts on using solar for your heat source?

I have thought about it, but in Michigan we don’t get much sun in the winter and we don’t normally get any Sun in the middle of the night when it is coldest. I figured a passive solar system might be more effective than an active (electric) one since you lose so much efficiency converting solar radiation to electricity. I think we get about 100 watts/sq foot of solar radiation/heat and hence you really wouldn’t need a very large surface area to add a lot of watts into a hive. 100 watts of heat would be more than you even want. I guess this is basically the idea behind the black tar wraps.

Maybe some combo of passive solar to collect daytime heat and insulation to hold it over night?

gaucho10 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 21, 2011, 06:27:45 pm »

BlueBee,

Your ideas sound good but there is only one way to find out :-D

I am not totally sure about my electric fence output and battery storage capacity (12v). I know that the rechargeable battery works throughout the night and it operates well over a mile of wire.

I have not started any projects yet with "solar hot water" but that was my next thought. Perhaps using the sun's heat to heat up some water located underneath the hive bodies and insulating it till daylight. Don't get much sun???? I read somewhere that sunlight filtering through the cloud cover sometimes does work. I don't know about that but I will be doing some research sometime in the near future. I original started on this idea not so much for my bees but for keeping a hole opened on the ice over my pond. A hole is needed to allow for gas exchange (Ammonia). I saw some neat projects on the web where the storage tank was a 100-200 gal insulated tank of water being fed by a 4' x 8' solar panel made out of 1/2" copper pipe and some 90's, the whole panel covered with glass.

Sparky · « **Reply #33 on:** March 21, 2011, 10:09:47 pm »

I KNEW IT !! The talk about hot water confirms that the next upgrade was going to be the hot tub. :-D When you say water I am sure you meant something with glycol so it would not freeze.

gaucho10 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:41:22 am »

A friend of mine had a 12' above-ground, round pool for his kids. He also had a small shed approximately 10' away from the pool. On the roof of the shed he built one of these solar water heaters. This heater created enough heat to keep his pool water warmer then usual during the Spring and Fall to extend his pool use. I think that a circulator pump of some sort is required but my friends design was simple and ~~he did not have a circulator pump~~. I take that back...I just spoke with him and he DID have to turn on a small pump to make the hot water flow. He also had "one-way" valves along the way to prevent water from returning. :roll:

I'll have to do more research on THAT...

gaucho10

gaucho10 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 23, 2011, 06:48:14 am »

Quote from: gaucho10 on March 22, 2011, 07:41:22 am

I think that a circulator pump of some sort is required but my friends design was simple and ~~he did not have a circulator pump~~.
I take that back...I just spoke with him and he DID have to turn on a small pump to make the hot water flow.

I did some reading about solar hot water heaters and I found out that YOU DO NOT NEED a circulator pump in the warmer latitudes. For us northerners a pump is required to make the water flow from warm to cold BUT in the warmer latitudes (above freezing) water will flow due to different density between temperatures. Just a thought incase folks down South were wondering about "cost" savings.

gaucho10

gaucho10 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 24, 2011, 11:03:08 am »

I just received my new wireless thermometers. I bought two of them...three total.....I placed one outside for "outdoor" temperature readings. I placed another one right inside the bottom entrance, directly on top of the #8 screened bottom board (SBB). I placed the third one on the inside of the ventilated inner cover (VIC), right on top of the center vent hole. I also inserted a heat tape underneath the SBB.

This is my hive #2 which is composed off a medium bottom brood chamber and a deep 2nd. chamber. The bees are occupying the bottom section of the deep chamber at this time.

Temperature readings @ 1000 hrs. were as follows: Outside temp. = 30ºF
   SBB temp. = 53ºF
   VIC temp. = 45ºF

Temperature readings @ 1500 hrs. were as follows: Outside temp. = 40ºF
   SBB temp. = 59ºF
   VIC temp. = 49ºF

Temperature readings @ o3oo hrs. were as follows: Outside temp. = 25ºF
SBB temp. = 48ºF
VIC temp. = 50ºF

BlueBee · « **Reply #37 on:** March 24, 2011, 06:10:07 pm »

Gaucho, your bees are freezing out there in MA, you need to move to Michigan :-D

Nice job on the temperature readings. I’ll post my balmy bee readings shortly.

BLITZZ · « **Reply #38 on:** May 24, 2011, 03:22:57 am »

Gaucho/

Great idea thanks for sharing!

On this picture from your site

www*beesbatsandbeyond*com/images/vic_12_resized_1-17-10_odfm*png

*=dot=.

The vent holes are blocked out with insulation. Is that right?

And only the big hole in the middle allowing air flow to where?

Is there a bottom air inlet also?

My case/
The previous year(09) I heated 4 hives with a setup using a thermostat, a dimmer switch(7W-32W) and the heating element of a cup warmer, with some flat metal as heat sink, all incorporated in a tray in the SBB.

On 2010 no heat was available and all died.

For the hole vents, I used cutouts of soffit louvers and scouring pads(!) to plug the holes to minimize drafts in the winter and rain water getting in, something similar to a ridge vent of a regular house roof.

JP · « **Reply #39 on:** May 24, 2011, 04:56:31 am »

Some how I missed seeing this thread. How interesting your tinkerings Gaucho!

BTW bookmarked your webpage.

Have a good one and best of luck with your inventions.

Great thread!

...JP