Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: dfizer on February 01, 2013, 10:30:15 pm

Title: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 01, 2013, 10:30:15 pm
Hello all -
To date I have been keeping bees for three years and the first two years resulted in neither of the three colonies making it through the winters. 

This year I really want to make sure that my bees make it.  I live in Upstate NY and the climate here is rather cold... Now with that being said this winter has not been too bad yet.  The temp her now is 27F/12F or -3C/-11C.  I went to have a look at the hives last week when we had 45F/8C.  I did not open the hives - just observed.  I noticed that one of the hives felt a little light - perhaps they need food was my thought.  Now with that being said - I would like some advice from Northern latitude beekeepers who have fed during mid winter.  I would really like to know what you would do at this point.  I don't really want to open either of the three hives due to not wanting to break the seal they have made to keep the cold out but I'll do anything necessary to keep the bees alive.  Along this same line - what should I do about the other two hives?  Should I check open them up and check on them or just leave them alone.  One thing that is for certain - all three weigh considerably less than they did going into winter. 

I guess I'm just nervous about the hives dying and want to do everything and anything possible to help them make it through the winter.

David
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Vance G on February 02, 2013, 02:19:34 am
Your caution is well placed but it is too easy to feed to let bees starve.  If you have an extra shallow super or want to make a facsimle about three inches deep, put it on top of your colony on a still day that is hopefully above freezing.  I do this fast on a still day with thirties and the bees don't do much but expose their stinger and point it up at me.  Place a sheet of newspaper over the top and let it droop down.  spray it down wet with water and slowly pour in white  table sugar so the bees can displace down between the frames.  Five or ten pounds is good.  Then put the cover on and tape the joints between the box you put on and the hive body.  Personally I have basically an inner cover made out of half inch thick fiber soundproofing board.  Put your normal cover over that and you won't have much of an air leak.  The sugar will absorb the moisture the bees generate from their metabolism.  It is quick and easy and the bees can utilize the sugar even if they can't get to the honey in the hive bodies they may have tunneled up past on cold days.   Just know that it is a hard world and the needs of the many outweigh the lives of a few.  Possibly losing a tablespoon full of bees to insure survival of the colony is the way to go.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 02, 2013, 03:52:18 am
- I would like some advice from Northern latitude beekeepers who have fed during mid winter. 

I live at same latitude as Anchorage Alaska. It is now coldest month here and no one feed their bees before cleansing flight.
And it is not needed because hives stand well over winter when they have been properly arranged for wintering.

Dfirer, you must first reviele out, how to prepare hives for winter. Then they cannot bee Los Angeles or Florida guys who tell it.
They do not even know what is winter.

Another gang is those condensation guys which have lost their mind with their "thermodynamics"

Cleansing flight is here after first week of March. It happens when sun shines and temp is over +5C. Bees can fly up from snow to their hives.
When stomach is empty, you can give them syrup.


To feed bees at the worst time of year may be a final blow to the hive.

Yes, hives must be now lighter than in autumn but are they empty of stores. It revieles out when you open the cover and look, if you see capped food in frames.  .
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 02, 2013, 03:56:03 am

Look here


http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,38814.msg326272.html#msg326272 (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,38814.msg326272.html#msg326272)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 02, 2013, 06:03:40 am
.
Some basics to winter hives in cold north

1) Bee strain must be adapted to local climate that it react on time "autumn is coming"

- it keeps a real winter rest and do not rear brood during winter

2) Varroa treatment at the end of summer that winter bee brood will be not injured

3) Insulated brood boxes. It saves food that you need to worry, do they have food over winter.

4) Insulated hives give better spring build up

5) Feed the hives full that they cap the food. Timing is important.

6) Give them wintering peace. Don't disturb them with Thanks giving day honey balls or with Christmas meals

7) A proper ventilation and wind shelter


.

Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 02, 2013, 06:19:00 am
No food = they will starve and die.

Feeding, disturbs the bees and they eat more food that fills there bowels and a greater risk for them defecating in the hive.

Yes, you should get rid of queens that don't preform well under winter , change at an appropriate time.

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: buzzbee on February 02, 2013, 09:35:03 am
If you are in danger of starvation:
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,36001.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,36001.0.html)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 02, 2013, 10:45:45 am
Your caution is well placed but it is too easy to feed to let bees starve.  If you have an extra shallow super or want to make a facsimle about three inches deep, put it on top of your colony on a still day that is hopefully above freezing.  I do this fast on a still day with thirties and the bees don't do much but expose their stinger and point it up at me.  Place a sheet of newspaper over the top and let it droop down.  spray it down wet with water and slowly pour in white  table sugar so the bees can displace down between the frames.  Five or ten pounds is good.  Then put the cover on and tape the joints between the box you put on and the hive body.  Personally I have basically an inner cover made out of half inch thick fiber soundproofing board.  Put your normal cover over that and you won't have much of an air leak.  The sugar will absorb the moisture the bees generate from their metabolism.  It is quick and easy and the bees can utilize the sugar even if they can't get to the honey in the hive bodies they may have tunneled up past on cold days.   Just know that it is a hard world and the needs of the many outweigh the lives of a few.  Possibly losing a tablespoon full of bees to insure survival of the colony is the way to go.


X:X X:X  Excellent!  I've saved several colonies from starvation using similar methods, but normally will add the 5-10 lbs of sugar at winter wrap up as a precaution.  Some colonies find it and need it, some don't.  As Finski said, Proper winter preparations (for 'your' region) are required to over-winter bees in areas like Up-State NY.  You folks get some miserable weather for bees and humans.  In N/W Wisconsin, we're actually colder than Anchorage on average, despite latitudes on the globe.

There "many" beeks living in NY.  I'd find one or two, or a club to join.  Stick w/ practices performed by Beeks in your part of the world.  You can't go wrong whenever looking another beek in the eye who's giving advise :-D. 

Oh yeah; "always" trust your bees :)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: rubeehaven2 on February 02, 2013, 11:10:43 am
I am also in the Hudson valley and this is my first winter with bees.  I just fed the girls on one of the warm days.  Just a sheet of paper on top of the frames and poured sugar on top, with an added spacer bar between the frames and the top cover.  But, a new bee supply store just opened the 1st of January right down the road from me!  YEAH!

 http://www.hudsonvalleybeesupply.com/ (http://www.hudsonvalleybeesupply.com/)

They are very experienced and very helpful!  Not open on Sunday or Monday however.  It's wonderful that a place opened up so locally.  (and even more wonderful that they know what they are talking about!)  The store may become a second home for me! 

Good luck with your bees.

Rich
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 02, 2013, 01:51:32 pm
.

In Finland, no one feed hives between October to February  and they have enough food still 2 months more?


What is so different in USA? Why hives consume twice as much winter food as in Finland?


No one use here newspaper sugar system.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 02, 2013, 02:11:26 pm
.
That is interesting figure http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/bees/2011-winter-loss.htm (http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/bees/2011-winter-loss.htm)

 Ontario Canada

Estimated mortality of honey bees
(http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/bees/2011-winter-loss-f1.bmp)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 02, 2013, 02:53:22 pm
From what I understand it's not uncommon to use fondant or dry sugar here in the USA.  What you need to do is simply pop the tops on a nice day to see.  If they are in the top box and you don't see capped honey, it may be wise to put on fondant or dry sugar.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Jim134 on February 02, 2013, 03:04:30 pm
You can use this
http://www.viddler.com/v/4169aac7 (http://www.viddler.com/v/4169aac7)



           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 02, 2013, 04:07:35 pm
From what I understand it's not uncommon to use fondant or dry sugar here in the USA.  

OK, you nurse you hives at same way even if some parts are tropic and some tundra.
Local means to you the whole USA

I have seen it too often.

Florida now temps

night  15C  day 25C

Alaska Fairbanks

night -15C  day -25C


Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 02, 2013, 05:38:12 pm
You asked about the USA in general so I responded about the USA in general.  Local to me does not mean the whole USA because according to your numbers Alaska sounds nice compared to many days we have had in January.  We have had multiple days in a row that never saw 0 f but got down to close to -30 f.  Not to mention the wind chill, which does make a difference. 

But for me specifically I wouldn't feed ant hive unless they needed it.  I left my hives with two deeps and a medium (8 frame).  They have 1" insulation on top and all around with tar paper.  They also have upper entrances.  As of last week all of my hives have their clusters at the top.  I couldn't see a significant amount of capped honey so I put some fondant on the hive.  I would rather know that they have some extra there if they need it than do nothing and find out they starved.  However if the bees were not located at the top or had plenty of capped honey then I would leave them be.

Next winter I will try to leave them with three deeps.  I believe the university on mn winters in this fashion.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 03, 2013, 08:01:40 pm
Some times young first year queens keep on laying eggs late into the fall and winter consuming food that was meant to bee for the whole winter.

When this happens the hive will bee light on food and they can end up starving.

In the fall if the bee keeper cools the hive down buy making it drafty, cracks between boxes or top roof(coins,matches) they might go into winter hibernation and stop the brood cycle.


mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 04, 2013, 06:49:17 am
.

In Finland, no one feed hives between October to February  and they have enough food still 2 months more?


What is so different in USA? Why hives consume twice as much winter food as in Finland?


No one use here newspaper sugar system.
the physics is obvious the hives are losing heat...  heat go in the form of sugar... it then comes out.
Why do beekeepers in the USA put them in boxes that lose so much heat?
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 04, 2013, 09:33:37 am
Hm mm,  Mine are well insulated  ;). 

These kinds of generalizations don't help IMO.  How many beeks, in a 'variety' of climates keep bees in the US?  As compared to Europe?  Asia or Africa?

Why do some Europeans (no names ;)) consider beekeeping a competitive sport?   

After all; BEES are the ONLY experts  :bee:

Too many assumptions coming from across the waters on this thread.  Sadly, most are just that.  :(

Can we get back to the topic now?  :-D
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Jim134 on February 04, 2013, 10:13:23 am
Hm mm,  Mine are well insulated  ;).  

These kinds of generalizations don't help IMO.  How many beeks, in a 'variety' of climates keep bees in the US?  As compared to Europe?  Asia or Africa?

Why do some Europeans (no names ;)) consider beekeeping a competitive sport?    

After all; BEES are the ONLY experts  :bee:

Too many assumptions coming from across the waters on this thread.  Sadly, most are just that.  :(

Can we get back to the topic now?  :-D

 T Beek :goodpost: :th_thumbsupup:  

This beekeeper is in Ballston Spa, New York USA about 120mi west of me.
not in Finland,Alaska,Ontario Canada or Hampshire UK

  

              BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)
 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 04, 2013, 10:56:52 am
Hm mm,  Mine are well insulated  ;). 

These kinds of generalizations don't help IMO.  How many beeks, in a 'variety' of climates keep bees in the US?  As compared to Europe?  Asia or Africa?

Why do some Europeans (no names ;)) consider beekeeping a competitive sport?   

After all; BEES are the ONLY experts  :bee:

Too many assumptions coming from across the waters on this thread.  Sadly, most are just that.  :(

Can we get back to the topic now?  :-D
In Norway they can can get down to 8Kg(~18lb) stores consumed over winter. This is documented in a scientific paper.
what are your typical colony weight losses overwinter?  (not the stores you put in but the weight consumed).
 I am really interested in what the weight consumptions/energy losses are  in any US  colony with corresponding climate and beekeeping practice.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 04, 2013, 01:48:44 pm
We had 19 below zero (F) this AM, but at least the wind was calm.  All of my hives had a few dead in front of them from yesterday when we only got up to 12F above but BRIGHT sunshine.  We have tough bees  ;)

What was your temp there in the UK?

18 lbs of winter stores!  In Norway!  I'd definitely like to see that paper  :shock:.  

Does the study include the amount of syrup that was fed as well?  Or just the amount of honey left by the beek/scientist conducting the experiment?  How 'big' was the colony (s)?  That would be good to know.  Was it/were they kept in a building or outside?  I have lots of questions  :-D

Fact is; bees consume MORE when its warm and if we artificially are keeping them warm, particularly in extreme climates, it 'may' be counterproductive to any future survival "if" we are training them to 'need' us instead of the other way around.  Or, perhaps that is the goal some are trying to accomplish?????  

Just saying............... :)

Personally, I've got a messed up back/neck/head and I'm just not that anal w/ my beekeeping to precisely weigh them, other than the occasional tip.  I try real hard to have them built up to 4 mediums with the top one packed w/ honey by winter wrap up time, but have 'successfully' overwintered in just 'one' medium, a small cluster/NUC on 4 frames surrounded by honey AND a full medium of honey above it.  Placed on top of one of my LONG Hives, that one survived just fine and didn't need any of the sugar I left.  

By Winter wrap up, w/out weighing I just 'know' which ones are light and will require feeding, but I leave dry sugar for "all" of them.  That said; I also STOP 'taking' any honey in August.  Whatever they collect from about the middle of the month is theirs, which includes our goldenrod and Aster flows and can go well into October.  Even w/ a good flow I still will leave them all some sugar.

I only started insulating my hives this year and am still not convinced they are any better than plain wood.  I believe my colonies might be suffering because let's face it, insulation (foam) doesn't BREATH, allowing condensation to accumulate despite Top Entrances.  It certainly explains the frost build up at the entrances that has NEVER been an issue before.

There are as many ways to keep bees as there are beekeepers, its NOT a competition  8-) and that is a 'good' thing.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 04, 2013, 02:21:24 pm

Fact is; bees consume MORE when its warm and if we artificially are keeping them warm, particularly in extreme climates,


But that fact is false. Those from grandpa to son stories. So many guy say so. I have seen what they consume during mild winter and during severe winter.

Of course, when it becomes February, bees raise their temperature when they start to rear brood.


Winter consumption in Norway 1 kg/month? It is impossible.

Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 04, 2013, 02:39:51 pm
My own bees have consistently consumed "more" when our winters are mild, when compared to more severe winters when they just seem to 'stop' or slow down everything.   Must be that "local beekeeping" thing  :-D
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 04, 2013, 02:48:37 pm
My own bees have consistently consumed "more" when our winters are mild, when compared to more severe winters when they just seem to 'stop' or slow down everything.   Must be that "local beekeeping" thing  :-D


Yes, everything is so different.

- no need of insulation
- bees consume in warm more than in cold
- feeding every time when it becomes warm spell  and in every hollyday

carry on.............locally. But please, don't tell to others!
.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 04, 2013, 07:21:55 pm
How many beeks, in a 'variety' of climates keep bees in the US?  As compared to Europe?  Asia or Africa?

I wounder if the bees even know which continent they are on  :roll:



mvh edward   :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 04, 2013, 07:40:47 pm
18lbs - 8kg in Norway could bee right for winter food consumption

But usually the winter stores also are for the spring build up also. so they might not be included

In Sweden we give 12 to 20 kg depending on when and how much honey is harvested and left in the hive.
Poly hives, more sugar farther north.

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 04, 2013, 07:59:05 pm
Sigh..............................................................Too many questions/opinions and not enough answers............ :( in this crowd................................ :-\
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 04, 2013, 08:03:47 pm
Too many questions/opinions and not enough answers


Hmmmm this could bee mistaken for a bee keeping site full of beekeepers that have a hard time deciding the one and only way to keep bees  :roll:


mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Jim134 on February 04, 2013, 08:15:38 pm
How many beeks, in a 'variety' of climates keep bees in the US?  As compared to Europe?  Asia or Africa?

 T Beek........

 I have keeper bees in Africa all so.I am a RPCV, Tunisia 83-85 (Return Peace Corps Volunteer)




               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
 



Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 05, 2013, 03:07:00 am
.
simple winter feeding thing.

one Langstrotrh frame can have 2,5 kg honey.

3  full frame is almost 8 kg. Do you think that for 10 fame box 3 full frame food is enough?


YOu must feed the box full. Otherwise they do not cap the food. Then it soaks moisture and start to ferment.

I leave about 5 kg honey into box and then feed 16 litres syrup. I know that one box hive is then full.

It is better to put the hive full than "save" sugar. The cost of sugar is nothing.





.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 05, 2013, 03:27:33 am
.

Text from Norwegian Wikipedia
Om sommeren lever den enkelte arbeiderbie ikke mange ukene, men bier som er utklekket i september lever helt til nyåret. Samfunnet kan overleve i svært lang tid. Nye dronninger kan avløse den gamle og de utslitte. Nyutklekkede dronninger overtar, mens gamle dronninger utvandrer (svermer) med en del av samfunnet, slik at de kan formere seg.
 
Men det viktigste virkemiddelet for samfunnets overlevelse er dog honningen. Den sikrer samfunnet energi og varme under den lange, inaktive perioden om vinteren eller i tørketider. Et bisamfunn har bruk for ca. 15 kilo honning i løpet av en vinter . Når vinteren setter inn setter biene seg i en stor vinterklynge omkring dronningen i boet. Den indre kjernen av bier i en slik vinterklynge opprettholder en konstant temperatur på 33 °C hele vinteren gjennom. Dette er yngleområdet. I kalde områder som Norge holder biene dog en yngelpause og dermed en lavere temperatur det meste av vinteren. I området utenfor finnes en løsere krets av bier som opprettholder en temperatur på omkring 24 °C. Ytterst sitter en krets av tettpakkede bier som fungerer som en levende pels omkring resten av samfunnet. I denne kretsen er temperaturen omkring 15 °C. Biene kan opprettholde disse temperaturene selv om omgivelsene utenfor har minusgrader.


Google translationBut the most important instrument for society's survival is, however, honey. It ensures community energy and heat during the long, inactive period in the winter or in times of drought. A bisamfunn need approx. 15 kg honey during a winter . When winter sets in putting bees in a large winter cluster around the queen in the estate. The inner core of bees in such a winter cluster maintains a constant temperature of 33 ° C throughout the winter. This is the breeding area. In cold areas like Norway keeps bees though a juvenile pause and thus a lower temperature most of the winter. In the area outside is a looser group of bees that maintains a temperature of about 24 ° C. Extremely sits a circle of densely packed bees that works like a living fur around the rest of society. In this circuit, the temperature is about 15 ° C. The bees can maintain these temperatures even if the environment outside is freezing.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 05, 2013, 03:40:50 am
.
NORWAY

Here is a newspaper story where 80 hives beekeepers says:


Av de hundre kiloene hadde biene kun trengt rundt 20 kilo for å komme seg gjennom vinteren. Men siden sukker er både billigere og faktisk bedre kost for biene en lynghonning tar røkteren ut all honning.

About 20 kg honey for winter per colony.


http://svelviksposten.no/nyheter/sveivens-gyldne-draper-1.7501578 (http://svelviksposten.no/nyheter/sveivens-gyldne-draper-1.7501578)
.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 05, 2013, 03:53:41 am
18lbs - 8kg in Norway could bee right for winter food consumption

But usually the winter stores also are for the spring build up also. so they might not be included

In Sweden we give 12 to 20 kg depending on when and how much honey is harvested and left in the hive.
Poly hives, more sugar farther north.

mvh edward  :-P

Same in Finland. Hive has allways pollen and brood when I start to feed. I take all honey off except from brood frames. So  16 litre 1:2 syrup will fill one box hive. Two box hive needs  3x 8 liter feeding.
With that amount I do not feed in Spring. I move food frames from full hives to empty hives that winter food will be consumed before summer.

After warm winter hives have much more food than after severe winter. So simple fact.


I have Italian bees and I prefer 2-box wintering.
About half are in one box.
.Never 3 box.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 05, 2013, 06:44:23 am
18lbs - 8kg in Norway could bee right for winter food consumption

But usually the winter stores also are for the spring build up also. so they might not be included

In Sweden we give 12 to 20 kg depending on when and how much honey is harvested and left in the hive.
Poly hives, more sugar farther north.

mvh edward  :-P

I got this from a 1974 paper   IMPORTANCE OF HIVE INSULATION FOR WINTERING, DEVELOPMENT AND HONEY YIELD IN NORWAY
E. VILLUMSTAD .

Northern U.S. beekeepers please read completely it has a lot of useful insights

http://www.apimondiafoundation.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?sid=&zone=download&action=download_file&file_id=460&categ_id=80 (http://www.apimondiafoundation.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?sid=&zone=download&action=download_file&file_id=460&categ_id=80)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 05, 2013, 08:09:14 am
Interesting, and confirmed a lot of what I have bee taught about beekeeping.

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 05, 2013, 09:13:45 am


I got this from a 1974 paper   IMPORTANCE OF HIVE INSULATION FOR WINTERING, DEVELOPMENT AND HONEY YIELD IN NORWAY
E. VILLUMSTAD .


Good heavens. Things have changed after that. it is 40 years.

Polystyrene hives are now and you need not know about insulation. You just keep bees in polyboxes.

,
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 05, 2013, 02:05:51 pm


I got this from a 1974 paper   IMPORTANCE OF HIVE INSULATION FOR WINTERING, DEVELOPMENT AND HONEY YIELD IN NORWAY
E. VILLUMSTAD .


Good heavens. Things have changed after that. it is 40 years.

Polystyrene hives are now and you need not know about insulation. You just keep bees in polyboxes.


This research actually quotes the insulation level(K value) ... the levels they tested at are better insulated than  polystyrene boxes made in Finland i have been able to measure quantitively.
Not all polyboxes are the same. There are considerable differences in contruction and thermal properties.
,
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 05, 2013, 02:35:56 pm
.
What ever it is, 8 kg food over winter is impossible.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 05, 2013, 03:05:20 pm
My own bees have consistently consumed "more" when our winters are mild, when compared to more severe winters when they just seem to 'stop' or slow down everything.   Must be that "local beekeeping" thing  :-D

I would also have to disagree with this.  I believe cold is good for bees, but to a point.  A severe winter is not good for bees.  In a severe winter with multiple days below zero as a high in a row will kill hives.  They will starve with honey right next to them, unless they are a strong and healthy colony.

 I guess the term severe and mild are subjective and determined by you standard winter.  If you standard winter means highs of 60 and lows of 30 then a "severe" winter would probably be good for your bees.  If you standard winter means highs in the upper teens to lower 20s then a severe winter will be quite rough.  In this case you are praying for a mild winter with average highs in the 30-40s. 

We had a great winter last year and saw standard highs of upper 30s.  I didn't lose one hive.  This winter has been a bit colder with multiple days in January with a high below 10 or lower and many days with a high in the lower 20s. I have already lost two hives, but the three that I have are good strong hives that should make it through the rest of the winter just fine.  However even when your hives survive a severe winter, they will consume more honey because they will need to get the extra calories from somewhere to generate the extra heat to maintain the temp in the cluster. 

So I am with finski on this one.  I am going to give my hives every possible chance I can.  I am going to want them insulated with whatever I can get my paws on.  Wrap in tar paper.  Make sure they have plenty of stores and a good queen. 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 05, 2013, 04:30:07 pm
.
Hard winter to bees means that there is a long period cold. We had that 2 years ago.
All apple tree flower buttons died, not for cold but for long period, because they dried up.

When it is cold, bee cluster is not a ball. The bees are as slices  between combs. They cannot move from there if food is finnish.

I saw lots of hives where 2 or 3 slices of cluster had died and ther rest is survived.

The mild winter means that the cluster can move and reform again and again and move to food. There might be handfull of bees after winter but still alive and they have collected together.

Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 05, 2013, 05:56:23 pm
.
What ever it is, 8 kg food over winter is impossible.

.

why?
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 05, 2013, 06:23:12 pm
.
Hard winter to bees means that there is a long period cold. We had that 2 years ago.
All apple tree flower buttons died, not for cold but for long period, because they dried up.

When it is cold, bee cluster is not a ball. The bees are as slices  between combs. They cannot move from there if food is finnish.

I saw lots of hives where 2 or 3 slices of cluster had died and ther rest is survived.

The mild winter means that the cluster can move and reform again and again and move to food. There might be handfull of bees after winter but still alive and they have collected together.



Precisely my point.  A warmer than average winter (used to be as long as 7 months) has bees consuming 'more not less' of their winter stores as they are able move about, breaking cluster when they should be staying in cluster, where they would consume less, that is until enough of a warm up allows them to move to another area of the hive.  That's been my observation anyway. 

I never had to feed sugar (or insulate) when we had more typical winters.  For the last 8 years, its likely the one constant that has kept my colonies alive.

We must remember that honeybees are 'tropical" thus pretty much unsuited to living anywhere too far beyond the equator.....................without beekeepers that is  :-D.

derekm;  You gonna show us that paper (or answer the questions presented)?
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 05, 2013, 06:34:15 pm
derekm;  You gonna show us that paper (or answer the questions presented)?

Try the link at the bottom of his post « Reply #33 on: Today at 11:44:23 »

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 06, 2013, 07:33:37 am




...

We must remember that honeybees are 'tropical" thus pretty much unsuited to living anywhere too far beyond the equator.....................without beekeepers that is  :-D.

...
thats not the case ... they are only as tropical  as tigers leopards and homo sapiens are...
i.e. there are cold adapted sub species e.g. Apis melliferia mellifera (see snow leopard, siberian tiger, inuit, northern europeans etc)
they have taken to habitats that allow them to survive winters with temperatures below at least -15C .
The genetic evidence suggests the honey bees only retreated as far as Spain during the ice ages.

Humans provide a thermally inferior habitat. From a thermal point of view bees are better off  in cold climates without homo sapiens and their chainsaws, axes and hives.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2013, 09:58:04 am
I'm pretty confidant that without beeks keeping (?) bees, especially new Beeks allowing endless swarms to escape in some pretty inhospitable climates honeybees would eventually die out everywhere except for those regions around the equator or otherwise protected by environment...........unless of course, global warming allows for their global expansion, again without the assistance of Beeks, which makes it theory only, but theory based based on historical evidence non the less.

Think about it;  How long would Finski's bees survive without Finski?  Meaning; swarming out, going wild, living free in the forests and fields of Finland without human intervention.  Based on 'current' weather patterns I'd give them 2-5 years.

Where do the majority of package bees come from?  Where do the majority of the worlds 'wild' bees survive and thrive?  Not Finland and not N/W Wisconsin.  

Wonder why?  Start by not comparing humans and leopards to honeybees  :-D

***Personally; I think "life" would be better off without humans*****
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Parksguyy on February 06, 2013, 11:30:05 am
Hi there,
I'm located in Ontario (Ottawa area) so cold and damp winters.  We had a break from the weather last week after coming off a week of -25 celius ... and were able to add fondant cakes to my hives.  I went into winter with one weaker hive and used the Mountain Camp feeding method ... fed them twice that way.  Fondant is better and more easily digested from what I have read.  Come late February I will be feeding pollen patties to give the girls a head start on the season.
 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 06, 2013, 01:07:22 pm
I'm pretty confidant that without beeks keeping (?) bees, especially new Beeks allowing endless swarms to escape in some pretty inhospitable climates honeybees would eventually die out everywhere except for those regions around the equator or otherwise protected by environment...........unless of course, global warming allows for their global expansion, again without the assistance of Beeks, which makes it theory only, but theory based based on historical evidence non the less.

Think about it;  How long would Finski's bees survive without Finski?  Meaning; swarming out, going wild, living free in the forests and fields of Finland without human intervention.  Based on 'current' weather patterns I'd give them 2-5 years.

Where do the majority of package bees come from?  Where do the majority of the worlds 'wild' bees survive and thrive?  Not Finland and not N/W Wisconsin.  

Wonder why?  Start by not comparing humans and leopards to honeybees  :-D

***Personally; I think "life" would be better off without humans*****
I suggest you read T Seely's  paper "the nest of honeybee".  He found plenty feral bees around Ithaca in upstate New York living in trees. And if you speak to him he says there are quite a few feral bees in trees there now. Bees do fine in northern USA with out us.
Strains of Apis mellifera are NATIVE to NORTHERN Europe e.g. Apis Mellifera Mellifera. Anything thats been here since the last ice age is considered native.

"Study area. We collected nests in the vicinity of Ithaca, N. Y. Numerous feral
honey bee colonies inhabit the unmanaged, mature forests of this agricultural region.
Ithaca has a humid, continental type climate with warm summers and long, cold winters"
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/36534771/1231081088/name/NEST+OF+THE+HONEY+BEE.pdf (http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/36534771/1231081088/name/NEST+OF+THE+HONEY+BEE.pdf)

btw Ithaca has a similar climate to Helsinki
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2013, 01:51:13 pm
C'mon  derekm, at least read what I said before commenting please. 

I remain convinced (but you can keep trying ;)), Honeybees would soon be gone from NY (in fact much of N America) without the help from beekeepers. 

Where do you think those 'wild' or so-called 'feral bees' in NY that T Seely studied came from?
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 06, 2013, 01:55:40 pm
C'mon  derekm, at least read what I said before commenting please. 

I remain convinced (but you can keep trying ;)), Honeybees would soon be gone from NY (in fact much of N America) without the help from beekeepers. 

Where do you think those 'wild' or so-called 'feral bees' in NY that T Seely studied came from?

What is it that you think bee keepers contribute that bees can't do for themselves?

it certainly isnt beekeepers providing a better habitat. (take a close look at those tree nests)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2013, 02:12:35 pm
Beekeepers supply BEES! :shock:
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 06, 2013, 02:16:32 pm
look at this
Honey bees of the Arnot Forest: a population of feral colonies persisting with Varroa destructor in the northeastern United States

    Thomas D. Seeley


Feral colonies of European honey bees living in the Arnot Forest, a 1651-ha research preserve in New York State, were studied over a three-year period, 2002 to 2005. This population of colonies was previously censused in 1978. A census in 2002 revealed as many colonies as before, even though Varroa destructor was introduced to North America in the intervening years. Most colonies located in fall 2002 were still alive in fall 2005.

This doesnt seem to indicate feral colonies rapidly dying out does it?
https://www.beesfordevelopment.org/uploads/seeley_apidologie_2007%2838%2919-29.pdf (https://www.beesfordevelopment.org/uploads/seeley_apidologie_2007%2838%2919-29.pdf)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 06, 2013, 04:57:07 pm
Wow guys!  When I started this thread I never expected this type of reaction.  My question / potential problem is relatively simple - first here's what I know:
- I have three polystyrene hive that I attempted to feed full in the fall
- Now when i went out to check on the hives my first observation is that they are noticeably lighter. Perhaps this is a problem perhaps it isn't... I don't really know... how light is too light? 
- Next, how do you know when emergency feeding is called for?  I too have heard that fondant is easier for bees to digest however im not really a fondant making guru and if I don't need to make it I'd prefer not too.

My conundrum is this - the hives seemed really well sealed and for me to go into the hives now will certainly break these seals and cause cold air to make it's way into the hives.  If your recommendations are the go into the hive to check on the bees, then how should I do that and what specifically am I looking for?  If it's capped honey then ok but once i see bees or capped honey should I just close it back up and leave?  My primary goal is to do everything I can to ensure the bees make it through the winter. 

Current conditions here - 32F/3F or 0C/-16C.  The forecast is for much of the same or slightly colder temps for the next week.  The bad news is that were going to have low temps of -6F/-21C on Saturday but the good news is Monday the temps should get to 39F/32F or 4C/0C. 

So to summarize - i need to determine if I need to feed - how should I do this, and assuming I do need to feed, what technique should I use...  I do plan to feed a 1:2 syrup in March so I just need to make it until then.

Thanks again

David

Please accept my apology for starting such an argumentative thread...
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 06, 2013, 05:11:34 pm
Wow guys!  When I started this thread I never expected this type of reaction.  My question / potential problem is relatively simple - first here's what I know:

It needs experience, what light means when you lift the hive. But if you have that much frost -16C, you cannot do nothing to bees.

If you feed, they may do the feces inside the hive.

So you should wait for cleansing flight. It is not far away.  My cleansing flights start here a month later.  Bright sun and +5C on snow.

Now my hives are frozen into snow, and I cannot lift them. But I lift the inner cover and it is easy to see, if they have capped food in upper parts of frames.
As long as I see capped food, I move feeding later.


.
In 2 box hives I may loose and  lift the upper box and  copare it to empty framed box.

Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2013, 05:31:22 pm
No apology is needed dfizer; Thank you for starting this thread!  it's just that winter is soooooooooo long  :-D  It can and does get much more heated than this, check the archives.

Some Beeks simply can't get beyond the 'human' intervention aspect of my argument, which essentially narrows their perspective and is the basis of 'my opinion' on honeybee survival "without human intervention" much beyond the equator.  I believe Tom Seely would likely agree with my assertions, in fact I'm pretty sure he already has  ;)

*****This debating is kinda what beeks do when we can't get into our hives  :)*******

If your colonies 'seem' light, FEED them.  Better safe than sorry.  Can you get to them from the top?  Not sure of your set up but w/ temps in the 30's your bees will be in loose cluster and likely taking cleansing flights and you should be able to remove the top, place (slightly damp) paper over the inner cover hole, an empty box over the paper and dump some dry sugar inside.  Shouldn't take more than a couple minutes, less w/ a helper.  FEED YOUR BEES whenever in doubt.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 06, 2013, 05:40:16 pm
Ya wait for a sunny day in the 30s f and pop the top.  Have some sugar to mountain camp if needed.  If no capped honey then get sugar close to cluster.

As far as the bees retracting to the equator....sounds like you refuse to face the fact that bees have been in frigid climates before humans kept bees.  Yes we probably supply a lot of feral colonies, but bees have been north of the tropics far before we started complicating things.  I do suspect that their range will retract before it expands again, but they will not be isolated to tropical climates. 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2013, 05:55:36 pm
look at this
Honey bees of the Arnot Forest: a population of feral colonies persisting with Varroa destructor in the northeastern United States

    Thomas D. Seeley


Feral colonies of European honey bees living in the Arnot Forest, a 1651-ha research preserve in New York State, were studied over a three-year period, 2002 to 2005. This population of colonies was previously censused in 1978. A census in 2002 revealed as many colonies as before, even though Varroa destructor was introduced to North America in the intervening years. Most colonies located in fall 2002 were still alive in fall 2005.

This doesnt seem to indicate feral colonies rapidly dying out does it?
https://www.beesfordevelopment.org/uploads/seeley_apidologie_2007%2838%2919-29.pdf (https://www.beesfordevelopment.org/uploads/seeley_apidologie_2007%2838%2919-29.pdf)

Ask the question;  How did those Arnot Forest Bees get there in the first place?  And what keeps replenishing them (w/ new genetics)?  And if beekeepers suddenly STOPPED keeping bees in the region, how long would these 'so-called feral bees' survive in Arnot Forest?  I'm still at 2-5, a three year study (with human intervention) not being 'anywhere' near long enough for such certainty to exist or change my opinion, sorry.

Try again  :-D

I'd like to see proof of your assertion as well Bush_84.  Archaeological evidence suggests that Honeybees have pretty much followed the weather patterns that were most conducive to their survival (tropical) and moved around the globe along with the less extreme currents or died out, until people started messing with them.

Again I ask;  Where do the majority of the worlds (really wild) WILD bees live?  Not so-called ferals that more than likely began as some beeks 'first' hive :-D
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 06, 2013, 06:04:48 pm
FEED YOUR BEES whenever in doubt.

But however, select the coldest day of the year!!!
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 06, 2013, 06:08:53 pm

Again I ask;  Where do the majority of the worlds (really wild) WILD bees live?  Not so-called ferals that more than likely began as some beeks 'first' hive :-D

I do not mind what "feral" hives do in chimneys, in tree holes, inside walls, in woods  and in what ever. I know what I do my hive bees.
Those escaped swarms may do how they like.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2013, 06:10:49 pm
 :idunno: :lau:

Should we laugh or cry?
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 06, 2013, 07:30:23 pm
If you take varoa out of the equation bees can survive long cold winters fine buy themselves without the help of beekeepers

One of the oldest laws that still applies in Sweden is from 1634 and regulates the ownership of feral hives.
The bees were around in 800-1000AD when the vikings drank MJÖD so they could do there berserk when they pillaged and plundered.
:cheer: To make mjöd Viking beer you need HONEY  :cheer:
Where did they get honey? must have been from wild hives  :bee:


mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 06, 2013, 08:33:30 pm
if bees are tropical why do apis mellifera mellifera, iberica, carnica have such dramatic behavioural and metabolic adaptions to cold climates? some of which you know.. Clustering, reduction in food consumption for a range of colder temperatures.

You cant say they like the cold in one sentence then say they are tropical in another.

Because U.S. beekeepers seem to lose a lot of colonies, and then import replacements from the sub tropics it doesnt make all apis mellifera tropical.

 The colony losses might just have something to do with putting them in hives that lose more than 10 times the amount of heat that they would in a tree nest.


sub species of Apis mellifera have been in cold and temperate Europe for thousands of years living wild. Northern europe is not tropical

go read the mitochondrial research ...
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 06, 2013, 08:51:19 pm
Wow guys!  When I started this thread I never expected this type of reaction.  My question / potential problem is relatively simple - first here's what I know:

It needs experience, what light means when you lift the hive. But if you have that much frost -16C, you cannot do nothing to bees.

If you feed, they may do the feces inside the hive.

So you should wait for cleansing flight. It is not far away.  My cleansing flights start here a month later.  Bright sun and +5C on snow.

Now my hives are frozen into snow, and I cannot lift them. But I lift the inner cover and it is easy to see, if they have capped food in upper parts of frames.
As long as I see capped food, I move feeding later.

In 2 box hives I may loose and  lift the upper box and  copare it to empty framed box.


Thanks Finski - given that I don't have the necessary experience to determine what too light feels like, I think I'll wait until Monday when temps are above freezing and check on them then.  

What should the hive look like when i look under the inner cover?  Should I see bees or will they likely be in the lower deep?  IF I don't see bees should I life the top deep off and look into the lower deep?  I know they should be in a cluster however if they are in the cluster and I don't see any honey - should I add the sugar on top of news paper as other suggest or cook up some fondant and put it on top of the frames?  

I may add something to protect them from the wind too.  Right now they are simply at the edge of the woods with no real protection from the wind.  Also, I have heard that leaving the sbb open is ok - do you guys think I should put something under the hives to seal up the open sbb?  Many local bee keepers leave their sbb open which is why I have left mine that way.  

Thanks

David
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Maryland Beekeeper on February 06, 2013, 11:40:33 pm
David,
 Simple ? :) If only it were so :) The, "Reaction", is a valuable one, study the links, there is some major knowledge getting dropped in this thread.
Drew
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 07, 2013, 07:04:33 am


 The colony losses might just have something to do with putting them in hives that lose more than 10 times the amount of heat that they would in a tree nest.



CCD is typical only to USA. They move thousands of beehives to subtropical climate to over winter, but areas no not offer food to hives. Hives are starving lack of pollen nutrients and bees loose the basic health.  So they say and there much what they do not know.

There is something else too why it appeared so strongly during last few years.


My wintering goes very well if I look food consumption and hive structure. But losses for varroa are becoming worse. It is said that varroa is more angry than 20 years ago and side effects of viruses are becoming worse.

.Very experienced beekeepers have lost all they hives during few years. And mostly varroa kills only 50% or 30% out of healthy cluster and it is too much. Out died hive is not a measure of wintering success.
.

I know that I should be more carefull when treating my hives, but after all these years I am bored sometimes for those bugs.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Rurification on February 08, 2013, 08:02:24 pm
What should the hive look like when i look under the inner cover?  Should I see bees or will they likely be in the lower deep?  IF I don't see bees should I life the top deep off and look into the lower deep?  I know they should be in a cluster however if they are in the cluster and I don't see any honey - should I add the sugar on top of news paper as other suggest or cook up some fondant and put it on top of the frames? 

I may add something to protect them from the wind too.  Right now they are simply at the edge of the woods with no real protection from the wind.  Also, I have heard that leaving the sbb open is ok - do you guys think I should put something under the hives to seal up the open sbb?  Many local bee keepers leave their sbb open which is why I have left mine that way. 

Thanks

David


To find out which box your bees are in, put your ear against the box and knock - works like a charm.  If they're there, you'll hear a hum.   Do it to both boxes and you'll be able to tell which box they're in.

This is my first year overwintering, too.   I have one deadout already.   The other hive is in a 2 deep lang.  No SBB.    Our winters here are extremely variable.   6 F one night and a day and a half later 60F.  Significant extremes.    Because the warms are too warm for heavy insulation, I compromised by throwing a 6ml sheet of clear plastic over three sides of the hive and tucking it in around three sides of the bottom.  Weighted heavily with bricks.    I left the front side open  so they can get out.   That leaves the bottom open for ventilation [we have extreme variation in humidity here, too] but really protects from the wind.    That hive is booming.  It was 60 F yesterday and they were everywhere - the chicken feed, the bird feeders, the maple sap bags and pillaging the deadout.     

I did feed them in January with some candy.  It was during one of the 50 degree thaws, so I can't comment on opening your hive while it's in the 30s.   I knew they were in the top box by knocking.   I did see them at the top of the frames when I opened it up. 

I hope that helps a bit.    This has been a great thread - I've learned a lot from all the responses.  Thank you all. 

Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Just5398 on February 10, 2013, 12:23:05 pm
so here goes another newbie question regarding feeding...Someone mentioned putting a moistened sheet of newspaper over the inner cover then pour dry sugar over it.  could you put a screen in place of the inner cover so they're is a larger feeding area?
Would feeding dry sugar during the winter be a good idea or bad idea?
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 10, 2013, 12:57:29 pm

Would feeding dry sugar during the winter be a good idea or bad idea?

First, look, if they need feeding. It is winter and bees SHOULD BE in peace.

In New Jersey temp are so high that bees have done cleansing flight and you may give 1:2 syrup.

.Open the inner cover and look how it seems. If you see capped food, they do not need feeding.

.I look into hive even if it is -10C frost outside.  ´Vain feeding is worse than looking inside.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 10, 2013, 02:47:53 pm
so here goes another newbie question regarding feeding...Someone mentioned putting a moistened sheet of newspaper over the inner cover then pour dry sugar over it.  could you put a screen in place of the inner cover so they're is a larger feeding area?
Would feeding dry sugar during the winter be a good idea or bad idea?

There are successful beeks around the globe who practice placing dry sugar in their hives, either before winter wrap up or during late winter (before bees will consume syrup due to cold temps) when they are light on stores and 'someone' forgot to take action in the fall  ;).  

Check out Michael Bush's website, he has an excellent section on winter preparations that includes dry sugar, and on the archives right here on BeeMaster, you'll find considerable opinion and debate on this subject.  Robo and Bjorn do as well.  Check em all out.

Bottom line is; 'you' get to decide if dry sugar 'may' save your bees and take appropriate action.  If weather is in 30's go ahead and take a peek to see if there's visible honey and bees.

I'd nix the screen though, it'll just tick off the bees as it falls through on top of them :-D

A damp paper towel or newsprint placed over the inner cover hole AND then an 'empty super' (nor frames, nor bees, placed over that, fill cavity w/ 5-10 lbs of sugar (some beeks will lightly spray it) cover up and done.  Shouldn't take more than 30 seconds.

Don't worry, if they need it they will find it, and make use of it until the dandelions begin blooming.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 10, 2013, 03:11:34 pm

A damp paper towel or newsprint placed over the inner cover hole AND then an 'empty super' (nor frames, nor bees, placed over that, fill cavity w/ 5-10 lbs of sugar (some beeks will lightly spray it) cover up and done.  Shouldn't take more than 30 seconds.



Is that something adult entertainment?

I am sitting now in my capital city apartment. My hives are 150 km far away. There 1 metre  snow taround hives. Dry sugar and newspapers. Sure. Ridiculous beekeeping.

Like one beekeeper in Alaska wrote, he feeds 50 kg sugar per hive. You really know what to do there. 50 kg dry sugar on newspaper?


You have there so high winter losses that I would keep my mouth shut if I were you.

The Apiary Inspectors of America (AIA) and the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) conducted an online survey to estimate honey bee colony losses for the 2010/2011 winter season. A total of 5,572 U.S. beekeepers, or 20%a of the estimated number of beekeepers in the country, responded. Collectively these beekeepers managed over 15%b of the country’s estimated 2.68 million colonies.

Preliminary survey results indicate that

30% of managed honey bee colonies in the United States were lost during the 2010/2011 winter.
34% of the total colony loss in the winters of 2009/2010;
29% in 2008/2009;
36% in 2007/2008; and
32% in 2006/2007.

.
April 2010 :
Ohio beekeepers are reporting a loss of up to 75 percent of their hives.

It's not just a problem this year though. It actually started back in 2008 due to colony collapse disorder. The exact reasoning for the disorder hasn't been determined, but the other factor aiding in this year's loss is the prolonged period of colder weather. Bees haven't been able to keep the honey at 100 degrees in order to eat it.

"There might be honey in the hive, but they can't get to it and warm it up. In essence, they starve to death even though they're surrounded by food,
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 10, 2013, 05:20:34 pm
Sorry Fin, but you don't know me, you don't know my bees, and you seem to know little about teaching or relating your methods to others who may do something different than you, nor do you jnow jack about keeping bees in Wisconsin IMO.  Frankly I don't care how long you've been keeping bees, its your attitude toward others that is offensive and distracts from anything you might say that makes sense.  

So what that you don't like my methods, 'they work' just fine for me and mine.  I don't have the losses you claim 'all' Americans suffer :roll:

Your Insults belong in Elementary School, not on a public forum.

I thought we agreed some time ago to ignore each other, no?  Can we PLEASE go back to that way of relating to each other?  I'm certainly willing.

Are the mods watching?
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 10, 2013, 07:17:16 pm
.
Jee jee. Your information about wintering is so wondefull. Newspaper and dry sugar.

And results can be seen.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 10, 2013, 08:21:23 pm
Here is maybe where the issue is.  I would be willing to say that most beekeepers don't want to be feeding sugar in the winter.  Maybe I should not generalize, but I would rather that my bees get their own honey.  On the other hand if they need some emergency feeding then I will use dry sugar/fondant. You cannot argue with that.  Any beekeeper would rather not see their bees starve if they can do something about it.  As a noobi am still trying to figure our my system.  Last winter was wonderful so my bees didn't need much honey.  This winter has been rather harsh and went through more than anticipated.  As a result two of the three needed fondant.  So guess what?  They will just have to keep some fondant on until things get warmer.  I learned my lesson and will be wintering my bees with three 8 frame deeps. 

I guess there will be those that rob their hives of all their honey, feed sugar syrup, and add candy boards in the fall.  I think bees do better on their own honey.  So I will only use those things when needed.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 10, 2013, 09:45:47 pm
Its hard to bring a dead hive back to life, so everything is worth giving a try when things don't go as planed.

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Vance G on February 11, 2013, 12:23:18 am
Finksi, it may not be your way but mountain camp method of feeding dry sugar works fine.  It saves colonies that would otherwise starve out.  If you don't like it, don't do it.  I have no colony collapse disorder.   I have strong wintering bees that would be dead now without the dry sugar.   I do appreciate the knowledge you share Mr. Finski, but none of us need your approval for the way we do things. 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 11, 2013, 04:11:16 am
Finksi, it may not be your way but mountain camp method of feeding dry sugar works fine.  . 

Here guys use "feeding frame". It is a plastic box, where they put dry sugar and the box into the hive.
But it is only emercengy feeding after cleansing flight. 

Hives here really have enough food over winter and extra food is needed at spring.

That hive disturbing line what I see in this forum is not beekeeping.

Hives are now under snow if some hive is ded, it is dead even if you are knocking it every day.

-
.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 11, 2013, 04:16:34 am

I guess there will be those that rob their hives of all their honey, feed sugar syrup, and add candy boards in the fall.  I think bees do better on their own honey.  So I will only use those things when needed.

I have robbed all my honey 50 years and I have feeded them full sugar. Nothing wrong in that.
Bees DO NOT do better with honey wintering.

Our hives live with sugar from September to end od August. It is 8 months. What they need too during that time is pollen. Honey has only energy and pollen has other nutritients. But they do not gather pollen from nature during 8 months.

My goal is to produce honey and sell it.  Winted food cost is 20 euros and the price of 20 kg honey is 150 euros.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 11, 2013, 04:49:13 am
Its hard to bring a dead hive back to life, so everything is worth giving a try when things don't go as planed.

mvh edward  :-P

But id you load the things so that you need not to be in penic the whole winter and you need not to start feed hives when it is the worst of time of year.

"so everything is worth giving a try when things don't go as planed."  beekeeping is not that diffucult.

Let the bees be in peace the winter and do not go yourself into panic.
.

And guys here offer really "everything to try" if you listen to them. Poor hives! Winter dead rate 30% even if guys do not have real winter.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 11, 2013, 08:05:44 am
"Real Winter"   Its relative.

This is an international beekeeping forum, I don't have the monopoly on the one and true winter, nor does any one ells.

Winter for one beekeeper may not bee the same as another
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 11, 2013, 10:14:35 am
"Real Winter"   Its relative.

This is an international beekeeping forum,

Here is nothing international. Relative and relative.  For example I have studied geograbhy in Helsinki University and then I learn here that winter is realtive.  What I have learned during my life, it has no value among these "do nothing" and " do everything" advices.

A gang of adult persons, who teach idiot things to each other and no one want to learn anything.

This is so high level discussion and it is surely above horizont.

Oh dear!!
.
.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 11, 2013, 12:00:04 pm

I guess there will be those that rob their hives of all their honey, feed sugar syrup, and add candy boards in the fall.  I think bees do better on their own honey.  So I will only use those things when needed.

I have robbed all my honey 50 years and I have feeded them full sugar. Nothing wrong in that.
Bees DO NOT do better with honey wintering.

Our hives live with sugar from September to end od August. It is 8 months. What they need too during that time is pollen. Honey has only energy and pollen has other nutritients. But they do not gather pollen from nature during 8 months.

My goal is to produce honey and sell it.  Winted food cost is 20 euros and the price of 20 kg honey is 150 euros.

Really Finski, you feed your bees "sugar from September to end od August."  (that's 11 months NOT 8. )

Your goal is to "produce honey and sell it."  Do your customers know that they're getting SUGAR/honey?

And "You're" the expert?  :shock:
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 11, 2013, 12:10:05 pm
.
Very funny. I should write to end of April.

But never mind Beek. Now you have fun rest of your life!

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 11, 2013, 01:18:26 pm
You are missing that FINLAND is one small land in the world, there are many other countries with many different types of climates and types of winter.
Winter in northern regions+ mountains are harsher but even the low lands and southern countries have winters, they just are not as harsh and extreme as in FINLAND, BUT IT IS STILL WINTER for them.

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: rdy-b on February 11, 2013, 01:28:30 pm

I guess there will be those that rob their hives of all their honey, feed sugar syrup, and add candy boards in the fall.  I think bees do better on their own honey.  So I will only use those things when needed.

I have robbed all my honey 50 years and I have feeded them full sugar. Nothing wrong in that.
Bees DO NOT do better with honey wintering.

Our hives live with sugar from September to end od August. It is 8 months. What they need too during that time is pollen. Honey has only energy and pollen has other nutritients. But they do not gather pollen from nature during 8 months.

My goal is to produce honey and sell it.  Winted food cost is 20 euros and the price of 20 kg honey is 150 euros.

 Do you have any good recipe for making sugar watter-- :lol:   :rainbowflower:
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 11, 2013, 01:49:59 pm
The biggest issue I have with finski's posts is that I have a hard time telling what is his right way of doing things.  I know that there is displeasure in his posts, but I can't tell how he would rather do it.  I think that a frame feeder full of sugar is brilliant!  Anybody who keeps bees in such a climate must know something about bees.  So I will try to gather what I can from him, but at the same time the manner in which he communicates is hard to deal with. 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 11, 2013, 01:53:19 pm


 Do you have any good recipe for making sugar watter-- :lol:   :rainbowflower:

If you find some

Americas Crazy Obesity Problem (Feb 2012) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXNe3LHlVxU#ws)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: rdy-b on February 11, 2013, 02:00:27 pm
 frame feeder not so good when bees are in cluster--thats why they use them after cleansing flight
bees take feed from overhead and outer edge of cluster -when they are in tight cluster they dont move- so location of
 feed is key to sucsses-the topic of winter beekeeping has degraded to* how to get the sugar in the hive*
 I thought we would be hearing about unmatched  (or lack of ) wisdom for electric light bulb-or how many
 beekeepers it takes to screw one in--- ;)  RDY-B
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 11, 2013, 02:08:53 pm
.
Okay randy. Here you get more seed of succes

http://apiculture.ncf.ca/Wintering.htm (http://apiculture.ncf.ca/Wintering.htm)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: rdy-b on February 11, 2013, 06:53:36 pm
 I goggled George brezina --not alot of support for that source-but I
 will honor his opinion if you are recommending it--- 8-) RDY-B
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 11, 2013, 07:49:55 pm
The biggest issue I have with finski's posts is that I have a hard time telling what is his right way of doing things.  I know that there is displeasure in his posts, but I can't tell how he would rather do it.  I think that a frame feeder full of sugar is brilliant!  Anybody who keeps bees in such a climate must know something about bees.  So I will try to gather what I can from him, but at the same time the manner in which he communicates is hard to deal with.  

Bush_84; Your climate is every bit as harsh as Finski's, perhaps worse even.  I know your region well.

Everyone who takes this road keeps bees for different (their own )reasons.  

Finski has admitted many times (many, many times :roll:) that his main mission is to exploit as much honey as possible while supplementing his bees with sugar for up to 8 months each year.......... :( yet he condemns those (American) Beeks who basically do the same thing, although my bees get a fraction of the sugar Finski feeds his bees (He has NEVER gotten that part of the debate) and get plenty of honey.  

Can 'you' explain this contradiction?  Can I?  Can the mods?  Have they tried?  Hm mm,  Can Finski?  

Historically and based on the archives, it seems improbable my friend.

Obviously, Not everyone is going to agree with Finski's methods, especially whether they provide some benefit to, or for bees or beekeeping.  Personally, I think his methods are abhorrent and absurd in many ways, yet he's treated like some kind of BK Prince around here......so it goes w/ idol worshiping human beings who can't help themselves (I'll likely be threatend w/ banishment w/ this comment.....XIN LOI>>>>>)  

Good luck w/ your bees.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 11, 2013, 08:13:01 pm
Here is an idea....maybe we should alter the direction of this thread.  We have wandered from the op anyways.  Since we are talking wintering maybe we should discuss insulating/heating hives.  It's a topic that's been on my mind. 

I insulate and wrap my hives.  What does everybody here do?  If you insulate your hives, what do you insulate with?  As of now I am using that hard board insulation stuff, but I was wondering if anybody uses the fiberglass stuff that you get in rolls?  You would have to almost cover that fiberglass stuff with something before you put it on.  Maybe garbage bags?  It just seems like it would be cheaper and easier to transport. 

Do you insulate singles or cluster them?

Anybody use heat tape?  Would it work if I embedded it into some hard insulation or would that melt it or be a fire hazard? 

Broad topic I know but I thought a nice topic change would be great.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 11, 2013, 10:59:54 pm
Hello all -

I originally started this thread in an attempt to firugre out two main things.  When in "emergency" feeding necessary, and what to do when it is deemed necessary.  This thread has turned into a stinger size contest and to that I'm disappointed.  So, I have some information about my situation that I'd appreciate some advice on...  The temp got to 39F/4C today so I decided to look under the inner cover.  Low and behold - lots and lots of bees in a ball/cluster.  I know I was instructed to look for honey but to be honest I didn't feel comfortable disturbing the cluster any more than I already did.  Therefore, I dont know the quantity of honey status.

Now my question's are these:
1) Is it ok/normal for the cluster to be so far up - the bees I saw were above the frames of the top deep and beneath the inner cover.  It was like they were stuck to the bottom of the inner cover so when I lifted it up it the bees formed like a bridge.
2) What can I assume?  Can I assume they have some honey and are ok or can I assume they are running out therefore emergency action is required?  Or should I not assume anything and lift the inner cover up and look harder for evidence of honey?  
3) At this point what should I do?  

In summary - I have to say that I couldn't be more excited in that all three hives have a large quantity of bee's present.  We have mild temps forecasted for this week so should I need to do something this week may be one that I could do it in.

Thanks and should you have any constructive advice specifically related to this topic please feel free to contribute otherwise please start your own thread where you can argue and go back and forth all you want.  Furthermore, should you want to start a thread about insulating or heating hives you can start your own thread.  Thank you in advance for respecting this request.


(http://s4.postimage.org/yt9p0bmgp/IMG_1533.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/yt9p0bmgp/)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: rdy-b on February 11, 2013, 11:25:29 pm
 theres a old time tested method of using two fingers to lean the hive backwards
 if you can lift the hive by the hand hold with two fingers its to light and needs feed--thats where i start
 from -then take into account all the variables and decide what to do-is there any whieght to your hive--RDY-B
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 12, 2013, 09:27:58 am
If its 39F and your bees are hanging from the bottom of your inner cover they are likely running out or are already out of stores.  39F allows them to move about w/in the hive pretty much at will, so if they're all up top they're looking for energy in the form of sugar.  

Don't hesitate, give them some dry sugar OR some of BlueBees Honeyballs if you have some honey to mix w/ sugar.  

Your bees made it this far, why take a chance on letting them starve?  If they don't need it so what.  You can always use it as syrup when temps get warm.

Personally I'm still on the fence as it relates to 'artificially' heating hives.  After many years I 'insulated' my hives for the FIRST TIME this winter and am greatly concerned about the frost (excessive condensation?) appearing at the entrances.  I now feel that the wood alone, even wrapped in tar paper at least allowed moisture to escape.  The rigid foam shells over my hives right now, do not.  A dilemma for sure, and one based on our particular region and climate IMO.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 12, 2013, 11:32:18 am
Thanks for the information - I have two layers of sheet insulation on top of the inner cover with a hole the same size as the inner cover - so where should I put this feed?  I was thinking about putting the sheet of moistened paper and sugar under the inner cover on top of the frames.  The drawback of this is that removing it will difficult at best.  I like idea of honey balls... I'll make more of a honey patty but the concept will be the same.  I'll put it on top of the frames near the cluster.  I remain hopeful that the bees make it through the winter as since we've made it this far I'd hate for them to die now.

Thanks and if you think of anything else I should consider doing to help insure they make it through the winter it would be greatly appreciated. 

Best regards

David

Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: sterling on February 12, 2013, 12:40:29 pm
Thanks for the information - I have two layers of sheet insulation on top of the inner cover with a hole the same size as the inner cover - so where should I put this feed?  I was thinking about putting the sheet of moistened paper and sugar under the inner cover on top of the frames.  The drawback of this is that removing it will difficult at best.  I like idea of honey balls... I'll make more of a honey patty but the concept will be the same.  I'll put it on top of the frames near the cluster.  I remain hopeful that the bees make it through the winter as since we've made it this far I'd hate for them to die now.

Thanks and if you think of anything else I should consider doing to help insure they make it through the winter it would be greatly appreciated. 

Best regards

David


It sounds like they may be low on stores. But I have seen the cluster near the top in hives I put insulation on the inner cover. If it were me I would put some feed on the frames right over the cluster. If your inner cover has a side that is depressed turn it over if not make some kind of spacer so you will have a little bit of room to put the feed. This can be done with very little disturbance and it is kinda like insurance. As far as the type of feed goes. The feeds that have been mentioned will all work. But I like fondant best but have not tried the honey balls.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 12, 2013, 12:56:33 pm
Here is what I have done as I am in a similar situation.  Make an eke.  Make it just a couple of inches high.  You just want something that will gives you space to add the sugar.  Put the eke down.  Put the newspaper down and add sugar.  Make sure that they still have access to the upper entrance.  Put the inner cover back on with the insulation over that.  Then put the roof back on.  Good to go! 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 12, 2013, 12:58:49 pm

Frost its just condensation in a freezing atmosphere .. all that means is the inside of the hive is above the dew point and the outside is freezing. The moisture has escaped into the cold and the insulation is doing its job... I get a plume of frost above the entrances to my hives.  Previously you would have been  causing frost inside hive . Nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 12, 2013, 01:29:21 pm

Frost its just condensation in a freezing atmosphere .. all that means is the inside of the hive is above the dew point and the outside is freezing. The moisture has escaped into the cold and the insulation is doing its job... I get a plume of frost above the entrances to my hives.  Previously you would have been  causing frost inside hive . Nothing to worry about.

Never had frost or condensation issues before I placed foam shells around my hives.  I now believe moisture is not escaping as it did when I just used wood, wrapped w/ tar paper.

Adding sugar is simple "IF" you have an extra "empty" super.  Just place the empty over the inner cover and fill w/ as much sugar as you think they will consume before the Dandelions begin blooming.  Don't forget to cover the hole w/ damp paper.  Cover w/ telescoping top and you're done.  If your bees need it they will find it and eat it.  No invasion into the colony is necessary.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 12, 2013, 02:19:21 pm
I suspect that the reason for the bees being clustered up at the top of the two deep hive is due to me not covering the screened bottom board and adding all the insulation above the inner cover.  It has to be warmest up there.  I chose to leave the sbb open on the suggestion of local bee keepers, although it was counter intuitive to me.  As a kid I was always yelled at for leaving the door open in the winter and leaving the sbb open was synonymous to this for me.  The warmest spot in the hive has to be up top therefore I assume they have made their way up to the top to stay warm. 

I made some honey balls (very simple I might add) then flattened them to a patty then simply lifted up the inner cover and set them in directly on top of the frames.  I put these as close to the cluster as I could without disturbing the cluster.  The only thing I question is the clearance for the bees to get to the top of the honey patty.  There is little if any room between the top of the honey patty and the inner cover.  I guess that I'm not too concerned as the bees can access the patty from all sides. 

The weather her is 37F/21F or 3C/-6C and about a 10mph wind today.  The weather is supposed to be very similar for the next 4 days minus the wind then take a turn for the colder.  On Saturday it's supposed to be 23F/7F or -5C/-14C so my hopes are to check the honey patty's on Thursday weather permitting and make more if needed. 

I couldn't lift any of the hives from the back with 2 fingers so they are pretty heavy still.  Hell, at this point, it could be that I'm simply worrying too much it's just that I desperately want the bees to make it through this winter.

I really liked the idea of the honey balls squashed into patties...

Thanks again.

David
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: derekm on February 12, 2013, 02:33:40 pm
...  I now believe moisture is not escaping as it did when I just used wood, wrapped w/ tar paper.
....

 I now believe heat is not escaping as it did when you just used wood, wrapped w/ tar paper.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 12, 2013, 05:23:24 pm
You are missing that FINLAND is one small land in the world,
mvh edward  :-P

and Böna City and hives on the roof of city theather.  Everyone has its "local" style

If you know something, Finland is not a small land.
Sweden is in area list 57th and Finland 64th. United Kingdom is 80th
Monaco is 215 th
.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 12, 2013, 05:38:13 pm
You are missing that FINLAND is one small land in the world,
mvh edward  :-P

and Böna City and hives on the roof of city theather.  Everyone has its "local" style

If you know something, Finland is not a small land.
Sweden is in area list 57th and Finland 64th. United Kingdom is 80th
Monaco is 215 th
.

And Finski what does this have to do with the thread topic... given that this is a thread I started, I consider it my thread therefore please honor my request to keep the discussion to the topic at hand.  I am a relatively new bee keeper and am learning a lot from the likes of you and others on this site however I find it ridiculously unnecessary to compare country size. 

Should you have advice to offer me please feel free to chime in - otherwise please refrain from useless posts.

Thanks in advance for understanding and complying.

David
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 12, 2013, 05:44:57 pm
.
Ask that from Böna boare.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 12, 2013, 05:49:29 pm
I guess we'll have to wait and see what colonies of mine survive before we can compare w/ previous years.  I've been doing this awhile, but insulated hives are new to me.  

I've got 2 months before a dandelion blooms around here, but there were fresh "yellow polka dots" in the snow in front of 6 of 8 hives today  8-).
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 12, 2013, 05:57:49 pm
.
I have kept insulated hives 50 years, and I have payed my first apartment from capital citys with those honey money.

I have kept bees to in single wall hives 20 years. I know them boath how they work in practice.


Hive walls act as freezener? Mad idea because bees produce the heat. We have 4 winter months that you do not much see the sun.
Just now sun angle is 14 degree and hives are inside snow. It is same as in London 21.12.

I dig hives from snow on the first week of March. Hives keep the colonies warm like humans in their houses.

.
Just now our day length is 9 hours and we have 15 hours dark. I have not seen sun for many days.

.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 12, 2013, 06:45:11 pm
Ask that from Böna boare.

?? my name is edward  and you seem to have missed the bigger point  :roll:

there are many other countries with many different types of climates and types of winter.Winter in northern regions+ mountains are harsher but even the low lands and southern countries have winters, they just are not as harsh and extreme as in FINLAND, BUT IT IS STILL WINTER for them

Different countries, different climates, different styles of keeping bees, through exchanging knowledge and ideas we all learn and understand more about bees and how other beekeeper keep there bees.
No right or wrong as long as you know what,why, and when you want to do something.

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 12, 2013, 06:52:34 pm


?? my name is edward  and you seem to have missed the bigger point  :roll:


Yes, Grand Ego.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Michael Bush on February 12, 2013, 08:15:58 pm
>Finland is not a small land.

Finland: 338,424 km2 or 130,596 sq mi
Germany: 357,021 km2 or 137,847 sq mi
Nebraska: 200,520 km2 or 77,354 sq mi

Almost as big as Germany.  Pretty big for Europe. Half again bigger than Nebraska...

Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 12, 2013, 08:58:33 pm
>Finland is not a small land

Let me clarify

5.4 million people live in Finland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population) 115 of 195 countries(half of the world live in the first seven countries), my point being that the monopoly of what is winter is not exclusive to beekeepers from Finland  :-\


mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: dfizer on February 12, 2013, 09:31:26 pm
Really guys?  Who gives a %^&* how big any land is... please keep your self-serving comments to yourselves.  Or PM each other.  I needed advice and am still quite curious if I need to do anything else and all you clowns want to do is compare the size of your lands.  Grow up and please only contribute to the topic at hand. 

I'm beginning to think that you guys have far too much time on your hands - given the best use of some of it is used to type senseless posts designed to correct someone else. 

It is very unsettling to think that with all this knowledge that the only advice is coming in the form of how big certain countries are. 

David
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 12, 2013, 09:42:42 pm
What is winter for you?

Is winter the same all around the world?

To grasp how to keep bees in winter you have to determine what kind of winter it is and how harsh(or not) and how long.

The winters in far north and mountain climate are not the same lowland southern regions.

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 13, 2013, 01:17:48 am
What is winter for you?

Is winter the same all around the world?



You should move to Geography Forum

This is proper: "A place to ask questions, give answers, and to talk about any aspect of geography that interests you."

http://geography-site.co.uk/pages/forum.html (http://geography-site.co.uk/pages/forum.html)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 13, 2013, 01:50:34 pm
To understand why different beekeepers keep there bees in different ways it is important to take into consideration the different climate variables.


mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 13, 2013, 03:03:52 pm
To understand why different beekeepers keep there bees in different ways it is important to take into consideration the different climate variables.


mvh edward  :-P

Even here beekeepers nurse their bees with 10 methods and they are ready to kill others which have different opinion.
For example mesh floor is "modern" and solid bottom is "old age".  In ventilation we get a big bebate as we want.

However, bees stand many kind of giants of intelligens.


But if I read every day that countries are different, I cannot stand that intelligens.
That should be clear before he opens internet.

And good yields?  It depends on pastures where you put your hives. 

If you do not want to extract honey, it is same how you nurse bees. If hive dies, you get a swarm from somewhere.

Love bees, that is nonsense. - Get a life.
.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Bush_84 on February 13, 2013, 03:38:23 pm
Really guys?  Who gives a %^&* how big any land is... please keep your self-serving comments to yourselves.  Or PM each other.  I needed advice and am still quite curious if I need to do anything else and all you clowns want to do is compare the size of your lands.  Grow up and please only contribute to the topic at hand. 

I'm beginning to think that you guys have far too much time on your hands - given the best use of some of it is used to type senseless posts designed to correct someone else. 

It is very unsettling to think that with all this knowledge that the only advice is coming in the form of how big certain countries are. 

David

Then what is your question?  It seems that your questions have been addressed.  I don't care to go back and read everything, but did you ever check to see if they had stores?  I seemed to recall that you opened it up, but did not check their stores.  Pop the lid and look.  You do not have to pull frames, but if you see capped honey they are ok.  If they have none and are at the top then feed.  Options have been given.  Fondant, dry sugar, honey balls. If you have no other related issues then either let the topic meander in whatever way it will or ask the mods to close it if you don't prefer it to meander. 
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Michael Bush on February 13, 2013, 03:53:24 pm
It is helpful to understand what climate people are in when they give you answers.

Here is some useful information in that regard:

Nebraska:
 "Nebraska's highest recorded temperature is 118 °F (48 °C) at Minden on July 24, 1936 and the lowest recorded temperature is −47 °F (−44 °C) at Camp Clarke on February 12, 1899."  I've seen -40 F or more two different winters that I lived in the panhandle and one of them it did not get above -40 F every night for two months.  The record at Camp Clarke was matched in the early 80s as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebraska#Climate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebraska#Climate)

Finland:
  "In northern Finland, particularly in Lapland, the winters are long and cold, while the summers are relatively warm but short. The most severe winter days in Lapland can see the temperature fall down to −45 °C (−49 °F)."
  "Even in the most temperate regions of the south the harshest winter nights can see the temperatures fall to −30 °C (−22 °F)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland#Climate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland#Climate)

It's not only about latitude...
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 13, 2013, 04:01:56 pm


It's not only about latitude...


Michael. YOu should get some reindeers to your farm.

Like Yakutsk in Siberia. 62 degree, almost same where Edward lives.

Temsp next days Celsius
-  37C

-39

-34

-33

-32

-27

-28

-28

-23 C

Highway to Yakutsk
(http://gorod94.com/images/yakutsk-russia-02.jpg)

Local vehicle

(http://yakutiatravel.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/IMG_3326.jpg)
..
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 13, 2013, 04:20:31 pm
.
Why people live in Yakutsk: Diamond mine . 50% out of export is diamonds.

(http://img279.echo.cx/img279/3406/mirny37dh.png)
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: T Beek on February 13, 2013, 06:42:56 pm
Looks like a good place to implement a "Land Value" Tax so dividends can be distributed to local citizens, BUT....WHAT does any of it have to do w/ beekeeping? 

The OP was right, nothing much going on here  :(
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: edward on February 13, 2013, 06:49:33 pm
 :lau: you're a funny guy  :lau: , you quote my posts and then go on a  :brian: rant  :brian: about other things   :wierd:

mvh edward  :-P
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Finski on February 13, 2013, 10:59:13 pm
To understand why different beekeepers keep there bees in different ways

I do not even try, like that Bluebee's picture where he cooks bees like spaghette.

If I understand what he is doing, then I have a chance to think why?



.
Title: Re: Winter beekeeping...
Post by: Ben Framed on December 24, 2022, 11:23:17 am
Since the Winter Solstice just passed, I am re-kindling this information filled topic. I hope the information here is of help to some of you.

Phillip