Swarm trap questions

[chux]

I'm planning on building swarm traps out of plywood this winter. I had a few questions I'd like to get thoughts on from you good folks.
1) How far away from a feral colony do you suggest placing swarm traps? I've read that somewhere around 100 feet is ideal.
2) How high should I place the swarm trap?   
3) How many swarm traps should be placed in a given area?

I know where 3 feral colonies are located. I am thinking of placing multiple traps for each colony. I am considering placing at least 2 different size traps for each colony. First, I would build a 30 liter trap and place medium frames, since I am going to all mediums. I assume this size would be good for most swarms, primary or secondary. I did see one primary swarm this year that would not fit in a box this size. In fact, I put them in a four foot long top bar hive, and they didn't stay 24 hours. They were overflowing the box. So...I am thinking of building one "primary swarm" trap for each feral colony I know about.

4) Anybody got any ideas, or links to building a larger scale swarm trap? Should I bother?
5) Should I build some smaller traps (20 liter) to catch smaller swarms?

Thanks in advance for your input.
 

[richter1978]

Unfortunately I can't answer your questions.  I can ask if you have checked out the "Hogan style trap-out"?  I have read lots of posts by Mr. Hogan.  He is able to set up a swarm harvester and only take away a portion of the feral bees, leaving the rest to grow on.   If theses colonies are accessible, you may be able to employ his techniques.  I have successfully employed them on a full trap-out, that is, removing all of the bees.

[Robo]

I'm planning on building swarm traps out of plywood this winter. I had a few questions I'd like to get thoughts on from you good folks.
1) How far away from a feral colony do you suggest placing swarm traps? I've read that somewhere around 100 feet is ideal.

I don't think it really matters.  I have seen swarms move into a tree less that 25 feet away from the parent colony.   I have also ad hives that swarmed into empty equipment that was only a few feet away.

2) How high should I place the swarm trap?   

Again, not important.  If there is no chance of anyone messing with the traps,  put them low enough that you don't need to use a ladder.  Otherwise just put them just high enough to keep out of trouble.

3) How many swarm traps should be placed in a given area?

Depends on how often you will be checking them,   I often put two in each location only because it can take me sometimes up to a month to get back and check.

4) Anybody got any ideas, or links to building a larger scale swarm trap? Should I bother?

Don't know how big you mean by larger scale.  I have found 30L to work well for me,  any bigger and they become more of a hassle for me.

5) Should I build some smaller traps (20 liter) to catch smaller swarms?

I wouldn't bother building "smaller" traps, my experience has been they will pick the larger trap -> http://beevac.com/swarm-traps/


If you plan is to leave the ferals to collect swarms each year,  which is what I would suggest,  I would stay away from the Hogan method.   Let the feral colonies decide how much resources they can afford to give up.   You are walking a fine line when you are the one deciding how much to take and you put the feral colony in jeopardy of perishing.

[SilverApiaries]

Some sources say to stay in the 30-40 liter range for European Honeybees.  The idea is that they strongly prefer cavities in that range, and generally won't accept much smaller volumes.  However, AHB will accept the small volume traps.  Disclaimer: I'm no expert.  That's just what the books/articles I've read advised.

[GSF]

I used DCoates 5 frame nuc/swarm trap. He has the printable instructions as well. I opened my shed door and stapled them to the wall and built from there.

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/downloads/

[rober]

from what I've read & from personal experience an 8 frame box between 15' & 30' in a tree is ideal. i prefer 6-8' because i can access the box using a 6' ladder. in unpopulated situations I've hung boxes at eye level with success. the only thing you can count on is that there is no predicting what bees will do. i have a ventilated bucket i use for collecting swarms. i put a few drops of lemon grass oil in it when i capture a swarm. once while preparing to catch a swarm the swarm moved into the catch bucket while i was getting ready. i put the lid on & took them home. i also caught a swarm in a 5 frame nuc that was sitting on a tree stump. last year i caught ( not trapped ) swarms 18" off the ground up to 25' off the ground & everywhere in between. put at least one frame of drawn comb or saved pieces of burr comb & some lemon grass oil in your traps as an attractant.  b.t.w. the hogan boxes are geared towards removing bees from trees & structures, not catching swarms.  

[BeeMaster2]

I recommend that if you want the traps to be for more than one season that you use OSB or solid wood. Last year I built 12 nucs from various scraps of plywood, OSB, solid wood and glued up wood. The glued up wood and the plywood both failed miserably. Glued up wood, strips of wood glued together to make a larger board, was from a maple cabinet. They failed the most as the tops and bottoms.
The new OSB holds up, years ago it would fall apart.
Jim

[chux]

Thanks for the info so far, folks. This is helping. I'll look into using OSB. As for distance... I did some cutouts this past season in a little one-story house. There were 5 colonies in two walls. They were spaced between 5 and ten feet from each other. The wall was the perfect space, so either swarms came from another location and decided to go to the same house, or one of these swarmed in the house and the swarm just moved next door. Not sure which. I'm just looking for the ideal situation to invite the bees. Would they prefer a home farther away, if it was identical to something closer?? Not sure. 

For the larger trap, I was thinking of building the 30 liter nuc/swarm trap design from DCoates, but modifying it to be deeper. Maybe add another 7 inches or so.   

[Robo]

Thanks for the info so far, folks. This is helping. I'll look into using OSB.

I use regular 3/8"  ply for my traps and with a coat of paint, they last at least 3 years.   I guess it highly depends on your local environment. So consider cost of material into the longevity, sometime cheap pays off.

For the larger trap, I was thinking of building the 30 liter nuc/swarm trap design from DCoates, but modifying it to be deeper. Maybe add another 7 inches or so.  

DCoates (and other 5 frame nucs) are closer to 20L than 30L.

[BeeMaster2]

Robo,
Your right, what lasts for years up north may not last a year down here with the constant high humidity that we have. I often see on TV where they use materials up north that would never survive one year down here.
Jim

[Jim134]

The link I put out was dead. 



                    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[bud1]

folks just tie a rope to yo bos and flip end over a limb pul it up and tie it off  when swarm hits just let it down   bees don't tote a level or ruler in their pocket

[Geoff]

    I was going to suggest the "Bud" system, so thanks Bud.

[chux]

folks just tie a rope to yo bos and flip end over a limb pul it up and tie it off  when swarm hits just let it down   bees don't tote a level or ruler in their pocket

Actually, I do need to put the box close to level. The bees festoon from the top bar down. Gravity takes over. Take into account that I am putting nearly all foundationless frames. If the box leans left or right, the bees will hang vertically and build crosscomb like crazy. If I check the box every 7 days, that gives them a lot of time to build a mess.

Thanks for the idea though.

[Michael Bush]

>1) How far away from a feral colony do you suggest placing swarm traps? I've read that somewhere around 100 feet is ideal.

Ideal is 440 yards...

>2) How high should I place the swarm trap?   

If it's baited well (Lemongrass oil, QMP, old comb) it doesn't matter as much.  I try to go what is convenient with a ladder I can easily carry around.    I'm sure it's lower than ideal.  Cornell has the "ideal" measurements somewhere on their web site...

>3) How many swarm traps should be placed in a given area?

It's like fishing.  No point putting a lot in one location until you know it's a good location...

>4) Anybody got any ideas, or links to building a larger scale swarm trap? Should I bother?

Good bait carries more weight...

>5) Should I build some smaller traps (20 liter) to catch smaller swarms?

It's fishing.  Hard to say.  But a small swarm will move into a bigger trap.  A big swarm may not move into a smaller trap...

[chux]

Michael, I love the statement, "Good bait carries more weight." Is that original to you? Nice.

When fishing, size matters. Often, you need a larger bait for a larger fish. There are times, though, when the bait is a little too big. Around here you are more likely to catch an 18 inch flounder with a bait that is 3 inches long than a bait that is 4 inches long, even though the flounder is large enough to take a much larger bait. They want something just the right size.

With swarms, you are probably right that we should ere on the side of too much room. Even a smaller swarm will come in if it is baited well. Got it. I'll go with nothing smaller than the 30 liter design. Still not sure about building a larger trap. You know, just in case that huge primary swarm comes along and won't fit in the regular size trap.