Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: bmacior on September 19, 2008, 09:27:47 am
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I've read in a couple different posts of using 5:3 syrup. I'm no mathematician :oops:, give me measurments. What's its purpose?
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generally you feed 2:1 syrup in the fall and 5:3 is pretty close to 2:1 except not quite so thick and easier to mix up. so that would be 5 lbs of sugar to 3 pints of water.
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Randy ? 5# suger to 3( PINTS)water that sounds a little thick?????
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i mixed up some 2:1 a few days ago and used 25 lbs of sugar and 1 1/2 gallons of water plus about another cup of water. it was pretty thick like it was supposed to be.
as I have learned from others on this board...a pint's a pound the world around. 8 pints=1 gallon. you have to heat up the water to get the sugar to dissolve.
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Thanks Randy, guess i'm feeding way too lite ,10# sugar-2 gal.water. It tasted sweet to me but, I ain't no bee. I just put it out Wednesday. I'll check to see what they are doing with it next week. jimmy
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Here we go with my math,
1:1 according to beekeeping for dummies is 5 lbs. sugar:2 1/2 qts (10 pints) water.
2:1 then should be 10 lbs:10 pints.
2:1 5 lbs:5 pints
2:1 25 lbs:25 pints. 25 pints = 3.1259 gallons. (conversion chart) .1259 gallon = 1 pint. 25 pints = 3 gallons + 1 pint.
According to the conversion chart 8 pints does equal 1 gallon.
Is my math wrong? :-\
Is 5:3 5 lbs:3 pints? :?
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I know on Michael Bush's web page he says: 1:1 is 10# Sugar and 10 pints water, 2:1 is 10# sugar and 5 pints water. I hope I have this right because this is what I have been doing now.
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I paid $13.48 for 26 # granulated sugar at Winn Dixie on Tuesday of this week. Anyone know where to get a better deal worth the drive? Thanks.
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Here we go with my math,
1:1 according to beekeeping for dummies is 5 lbs. sugar:2 1/2 qts (10 pints) water.
2:1 then should be 10 lbs:10 pints.
2:1 5 lbs:5 pints
2:1 25 lbs:25 pints. 25 pints = 3.1259 gallons. (conversion chart) .1259 gallon = 1 pint. 25 pints = 3 gallons + 1 pint.
According to the conversion chart 8 pints does equal 1 gallon.
Is my math wrong? :-\
Is 5:3 5 lbs:3 pints? :?
but 2 1/2 quarts of water is 5 pints not 10. 2 pints to a quart. 4 quarts to a gallon.
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Oops :-D Told you math wasn't my strong suit. Was trying to get back here hopefully before anyone else and correct the 2 1/2 qts to equal 5 pints. Good thing I mixed my syrup using qts not pints. :lol:
So, does everybody agree that 5:3 is 5 lbs:3 pints? We know we don't want me doing the calculations. :fishhit:
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I paid $13.48 for 26 # granulated sugar at Winn Dixie on Tuesday of this week. Anyone know where to get a better deal worth the drive? Thanks.
$11.56 for 25 lbs at walmart. (46.24 cents per pound). Winn Dixie is 51.85 cents a pound. Not much difference.
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Everyone bee very careful.....you must use cane or beet sugar and not ordinary granulated sugar as they will have a digestion problem.
John
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Everyone bee very careful.....you must use cane or beet sugar and not ordinary granulated sugar as they will have a digestion problem.
John
From what I've been told you don't want cane sugar because it will tear up their gut. I buy the syrup from dadant and right now it is a sucrose and hfcs mix. 70 gallons is like $230.00 and that only gives the girls about 1 jar each even when I add a little water to the mix. Nothing beats a honey flow even when it is a minor one.
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granulated sugar is beet or cane sugar, and is sucrose (ie table sugar C12-H22-O11)
and I'm still looking for info on 5:3.
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A pint of water weighs roughly 1 pound. 1:1 is one pound sugar to one pound (pint) water. 5:3 is 5 pounds sugar to 3 pounds (pints) water, so yea, you're right.
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It doesn't matter. The measurements are so close most folks, to make it easier just use container size.
5:3 Ratio
Ex. 5 cups sugar to 3 cups water
Or 5 pints sugar to 3 pints water
Just forget the conversions --- the bees don't really care :-D!
>you must use cane or beet sugar and not ordinary granulated sugar as they will have a digestion problem.
Granulated sugar right out the store is what most that feed small amounts use. Seems the controversy is now over HFCS.
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Does a cup of granulated sugar really weigh a whole pound? Seems like the 5lb bags of sugar contain a lot more than just 5 cups of sugar to me.
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I paid $13.48 for 26 # granulated sugar at Winn Dixie on Tuesday of this week. Anyone know where to get a better deal worth the drive? Thanks.
a hundred pounds at Sams on 9/08 was $46.32
a hundred pounds at Sams on 9/16 was $48.92
like everything, it's going up weekly
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I paid $13.48 for 26 # granulated sugar at Winn Dixie on Tuesday of this week. Anyone know where to get a better deal worth the drive? Thanks.
a hundred pounds at Sams on 9/08 was $46.32
a hundred pounds at Sams on 9/16 was $48.92
like everything, it's going up weekly
or in this case fairly strongly
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>Does a cup of granulated sugar really weigh a whole pound?
If you are referring to my post Sgt.? I didn't say it was exact but most feel close enough to do away w/the conversions :-D!
I have seen it referenced several places. Where--- I can't remember.
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I copied this from MB's website (thanks Mike)
What kind of sugar? It matters not at all if it's beet sugar or cane sugar.
It matters a lot if it's granulated white sugar or anything else. Powdered sugar, brown sugar, molasses and any other unrefined sugar is not good for bees. They can't handle the solids.
Pollen is fed either in open feeders for the bees to gather it (dry) or in patties (mixed with syrup or honey into a dough and pressed between sheets of waxed paper). The patties are put on the top bars. A shim is helpful to make room for the patty. I usually do open feeding dry.
Measuring ratios for syrup.
The standard mixtures are 1:1 in the spring and 2:1 in the fall (sugar:water). People often use something other than those for their own reasons. Some people use 2:1 in the spring because it's easier to haul around and keeps better. Some people use 1:1 in the fall because they believe it stimulates brood rearing and they want to be sure to have young bees going into winter. The bees will manage either way. I use more like 5:3 (sugar:water) all the time. It keeps better than 1:1 and is easier to dissolve than 2:1.
The next argument is over weight or volume. If you have a good scale you can find this out for yourself, but take a pint container, tare it (weigh it empty) and fill it with water. The water will weigh very close to a pound. Now take a dry pint container, tare it (weigh it empty) and fill it with white sugar and weight it. It will weigh very close to a pound. So I'll keep this very simple. For the sake of mixing syrup for feeding bees, it just doesn't matter. You can mix and match. "A pints a pound the world around" as far as dry white sugar and water are concerned. At least until you've mixed the syrup. So if you take 10 pints of water, boil it, and add 10 pounds of sugar you'll get the same thing as if you took 10 pounds of water, boil it, and add 10 pints of sugar.
The next confusion seems to be on how much it takes to make how much syrup. The volume of 10 pints of water and 10 pints of sugar will make about 15 pints of syrup, not 20. The sugar and the water fit together.
Don't confuse the issue of how you measure. Measure before you mix. In other words, you can't fill a container 1/3 of the way with water, and add sugar until it's 2/3 full and have 1:1 syrup. You'll get more like 2:1 syrup. Likewise, you can't fill it 1/3 of the way with sugar and then add water until it's 2/3 full and have 1:1 syrup. You'll get more like 1:2. You have to measure both separately and then put them together to get an accurate measurement. I find the easiest is to use pints for water and pounds for sugar since the sugar comes in packages marked in pounds and volume is easy to measure for water. So if you know you are going to add 10 pounds of sugar and you want 1:1 then start with 10 pints of boiling water and add the 10 pounds of sugar.
How to make syrup.
I boil the water and add the sugar and then when it's all dissolved turn off the heat. With 2:1 this can take some time. Either way, boiling the water makes the syrup keep longer by killing all the microorganism that might be in the sugar or the water.
Moldy syrup
I don't let a little mold bother me, but if it smells too funny or it's too moldy I throw it out. If you use essential oils (and I don't) they tend to keep it from molding. Some people add various things to control this. Clorox, distilled vinegar, vitamin C, lemon juice and other things are used by various people to help it keep longer. All of these except the Clorox make the syrup more acidic and closer to the acidity of honey (lower the pH).
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Granulated sugar right out the store is what most that feed small amounts use. Seems the controversy is now over HFCS.
I admit that I use granulated sugar to feed. On a scale from 1-10 how bad do we think that it is for the bees? And how much dopes it cost to feed beet or cane sugar compared to granulated white?
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Granulated sugar right out the store is what most that feed small amounts use. Seems the controversy is now over HFCS.
I admit that I use granulated sugar to feed. On a scale from 1-10 how bad do we think that it is for the bees? And how much dopes it cost to feed beet or cane sugar compared to granulated white?
Granulated white sugar is almost always "pure cane sugar"
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I just checked the bag and it does say pure cane granulated sugar so I guess it is fine for the bees.
What kind is not good. i guess I am not understanding that part?
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The problem with the quote from Beekeeping for Dummies is they're saying a 1:1 mix is 5 lbs sugar to 10 pints (pounds) water. That's not 1:1, it's .5 to 1. Looks like they're the dummies---
1:1 would be 5 lbs to 5 pints
5:3 would be 5 lbs to 3 pints
Nelly
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the 5 lbs to 10 pints was my mistake :oops: not the beekeeping for dummies book. They've got it right.
HFCS isn't good for people. It isn't good for animals. How can it be good for the bees? The new HFCS commercial really burns my ...
They say it is natural as it is made from corn. My kids say marijuana is natural (and therefore good) because it is made from the same plant (that makes it natural) that is used to make hemp ropes.
Remember the coke classic new coke issue years ago. New coke contained HFCS and people could taste the difference and raised a rukus. So the company came out with coke classic using the old sugar recipe. Coke is just coke now with HFCS. If you want coke made with sugar, you have to buy Mexican coke. If you want to lose 10 lbs quick, give up soft drinks.
The obesity issue in America follows exactly the timeline of the the introduction of HFCS into the American food supply.
I don't know what the rules are here, so rather than posting a page about HFCS here from another site of mine, if you are interested, let me know and I can send you a link to read about it.
So now I'm off my band wagon. Thank you JhnR for posting the information from MBs site. It was very informative.
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>I don't know what the rules are here, so rather than posting a page about HFCS here from another site of mine, if you are interested, let me know and I can send you a link to read about it.
No problem--- Post the page!
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Varroa mites are "natural" too but I don't think they are good for bees.
Rocks are "natural" but they would do a number on your digestive system if you were too eat them.
Tell that to your grand kids about the marijuana. Just because it is natural doesn't mean that it is good for you.
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In reference to 1:1--
"usually one part sugar and one part water by weight or volume."
ABC&XYZ of Bee Culture (pg 247)
I think we got the weight thing, how would you measure by volume? I understand sugar is a dry measurement and water a liquid but in this reference mixing (sugar and water) would volume not be:
1 cup sugar : 1 cup water
Do the bees care?
In reference to 1:1 verses 2:1 , Later in the same passage "However, in both cases the bees are remarkably adept at utilizing the food in a manner that will best suit their purpose."
O.K. I think I have beat it to death now ----- I QUIT :-* :-D!
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http://www.zijamoringahealth.com/Nutrition/Health_and_Nutrition/Obesity.html
I agree with you. Just because something is natural, doesn't mean it's good for you. That is my whole point about HFCS. It's not good for you and it's not good for your bees.
I bought some Mega Bee pollen substitute. But before I did, I called them to find out if they use HFCS in their formula. They told me "absolutely not!" If they felt it was good for the bees, they'd be using it, as it is cheaper than sugar and would increase their profit margin. If you are trying to make a healthy supplement, you don't add unhealthy things (unless it's being made in China :-D).
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There is also a debate that HFCS may be going though a change during hot weather if stored in a tank --- like @ your distributor etc.
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>1:1 according to beekeeping for dummies is 5 lbs. sugar:2 1/2 qts (10 pints) water.
Really? Then he got it wrong.
>2:1 then should be 10 lbs:10 pints.
It's 10 lbs : 5 pints.
>Is 5:3 5 lbs:3 pints? huh
Yes.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#ratios
As far as what kind "regular granulated sugar" IS beet or cane sugar. It's plain white sugar. Not brown sugar. Not powdered sugar. Plain old white sugar. Plain old white comes from either cane or beet. Either works fine for feeding bees.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#kindofsugar
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>Does a cup of granulated sugar really weigh a whole pound?
No. A cup of granulated sugar weighs a half of a pound. A PINT of granulated sugar weighs a pound.
> Seems like the 5lb bags of sugar contain a lot more than just 5 cups of sugar to me.
Yes. It contains twice that.
>I admit that I use granulated sugar to feed. On a scale from 1-10 how bad do we think that it is for the bees?
The only thing better would be honey. Nectar is almost pure sucrose with a few trace minerals and a few organic acids (formic, malic, oxalic, citric, acetic etc.)
> And how much dopes it cost to feed beet or cane sugar compared to granulated white?
Beet and cane sugar ARE granulated white sugar. These are not different things. They are the same thing.
As far as how good it is for the bees that is a matter of opinion but the opinion of many of the great beekeepers through the years is that honey is better for them.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#leavehoneyforwinterfood
And keep in mind the pH of honey vs the pH of sugar syrup:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#chalkbrood
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Sheesh you guys,..Its me again, "Mr. Lucky"!
I dump half a bag(about 5 lbs) of sugar into an orange bucket (maybe 2 gallons)..I add hot water to make melting of the sugar easier. Once its disolved I top it off with cool water and steer it. Then I feed it to the bees :)
your friend,
john
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They are running ads on TV around here that say that HFCS is good for you because it is created naturally... :roll:
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Thanks for taking the time to straighten us (me) out on all that confusion Mike. Great website by the way.
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They are running ads on TV around here that say that HFCS is good for you because it is created naturally...
Yeah, I saw that too. thought it was hilarious.
Nothing really wrong with corn syrup, just the way it is used. Depending on the formulation, it can be half as sweet as cane syrup. That allows manufacturers to cram twice the calories into foods and drink, for the same level of sweetness as cane sugar.
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My grandmother drummed into me so many years ago: The pints a pound the world around, except for honey.
For normal purposes a pint (volume) equals 1 pound (wieght) the volume and wieght being equal in the Old English measuring system.
1 cup = 8 ounces = 1/2 pound
1 pint = 16 oounces = 1 pound
1 quart = 32 ounces = 2 pounds
1 gallon = 128 ounces = 8 pounds
Now when mixing a solid and a liquid 1 + 1 doesn't always = 2. For example if you mix 5lbs of sugar and 3 pints of water you end up with 1 gallon by volume due to displacement. That's why the 5:3 mix is so easy to use. So if you just want to fill a 1 gallon container with syrup use the 5:3 formula, works every time.