Cover selection.

[Doby45]

I am getting started in bee keeping along with my best friend.  I have already ordered all the "personal" gear such as suit, gloves, hive tool, brush and smoker.  I am now looking at putting together the required hive components.  I have read a pretty good bit on this site as well as a few others and am using the information I have found so far to select the components I want.  I have decided to go with all mediums as it seems to be the smartest thing I have seen yet in hive management.  Screened bottom boards will also be used and the only thing that I am still pondering is the top.  Should I use a regular telescoping top or could I use a migratory top?  What are the advantages and disadvantages of the migratory tops?  I appreciate in assistance that may be offered.  Thanks.

[Brian D. Bray]

Telescopic tops are convention, migratory tops are easier.
With a magratory top, there is no inner top, so creating a top entrance/vent is easier to accomplish.
In my book the simpler you can make your operation the better.
I use reverable bottom boards as both tops and bottoms (for swarms) when SBB and or bottomless hives are not preferred.
Mediums for everything is a good choice and my recommendation.

[BEES4U]

Telescopic tops are convention, migratory tops are easier.

Hint:
Assemble a complete hive, double, with the above covers/tops and then bend over and move it about ten feet.
There is your answer.
Ernie

[suprstakr]

The covers are your choice , The rest check with local beeks (Fat Beeman , Bud Watts ) , every area is different . I use SBB becouse it's warmer here .

[Kathyp]

migratory tops are cheaper.  you can use an inner cover or not and that saves money also.

[Doby45]

So to vent the migratory top you just place something small between the top and medium?  Say a twig or a nail?

[rast]

 Yes, but you can also vent telescopic. I use a couple of 3/8 X 1" wood scraps. Gives them an upper entrance without rain intrusion. You kill fewer bee's putting a migratory cover back on. You can slide it across the top of the hive pushing the bees off the top edge of the hive body. With telescopic, you put it in place and lower it straight down, always squishes a few despite trying not to. Telescopic don't warp as bad as migratories.
 Just my observations using both.

[1of6]

So to vent the migratory top you just place something small between the top and medium?  Say a twig or a nail?

I put these at the front over my inner cover, with a telescoping lid over top.  Remember, I'm in PA, so our weather brings different considerations.  With our wind, this seems to keep my inner cover dry with no snow or water blowing in too.  If your migratory top had a little overhang, that probably wouldn't be as much of a consideration though...

In my opinion, the inner cover is really worth having too.  You can feed over the center hole, affix a bee escape into it, or even just rely on it to keep the outer cover from getting quite so glued down.

Now, I will say this about my observations for this year and our expectations for a hard winter - aside from our heavy acorn and hickory crop, bumper fruit crops, odd blooming schedules, drones being evicted early, and all the other odd environmental 'quirks' that we've been having this year, my bees have been doing something this fall that they haven't been doing other years - they've been going above the inner cover and trying to glue the outer cover down anyway.  This is definitely NOT the norm for this area, and I'd say that this and the unusually high amount of propolis production this year might be an even further indicator that we're about to get walloped this winter.  Beware.

Oh, and Rast - I think your problem is too many bees in your boxes - they're probably spilling out over the top and that's why you're smashing so many.  I think this might help - take your queen, put her in a queen cage, then shake about 3lbs. of bees into a package, add the queen with attendants, and send to me.  That'll help with your overabundant population.  I hope this helps. ;)

[Doby45]

Here is the crux of my question.  Lets say I don't use an inner cover and I used a migratory top.  Just starting out I would not want the top to be an upper entrance because the hive will need to settle in and so forth.  But, I would want to "ventilate" the top, so could that be done by simply placing a nail between the super and top?  That would be small enough for them not go in and out and could still be opened with a tool if they propolis it some.  Does that sound reasonable or stupid? LOL

[rast]

 I don't use an inner cover down here. Neither do any of the local beeks I know. All my migratory tops have feeder holes in them and I set another super and top over the feeder if I am only feeding one hive. Tape it up if I don't need the hole. Yes it will work with the nails, but make sure your hive is strong enough to defend any opening. When you prop the front up it also props open the sides and you need enough guard bees to to defend it. I am getting really big on preventative defense due to beetles and wax moths. At this point in my beekeeping, I am only concerned with top venting during the hot part of the year.

1of6, as soon as I squish 3 lbs and a queen, you got em buddy :-D

[Doby45]

I would only prop one side of the top and the thickness of the nail would not be enough for any flyin critters to get in or out I would think.  Link a finishing nail, just enough to vent.

[asprince]

What makes you think you need a vent at the top? In the south, I only think about venting in the very hot summer days if they are bearding heavy.

Steve

[1of6]

What makes you think you need a vent at the top? In the south, I only think about venting in the very hot summer days if they are bearding heavy.

Steve

Steve - good question - I think a lot of folks are starting to think about ventilation and how it helps dry out the honey more quickly.  Warm air being able to rise out and take some of the humidity out of the hive should serve to act much like the draft in a chimney, and actually aid the bees in bringing down the moisture content of the uncapped honey...or so the story goes.

I slid back a super on each of my large hives this year, about 3/8" back, to create an additional vent point further up the stack.  3/8" is enough to create a small, defendable upper entrance up in the super area of the stack, and it seemed also that the colonies with this vent were capping their honey more quickly too.  Try it on one strong hive next year and see what you think - I do really think it helps.  It seems like years ago the emphasis was on closing the hives up, especially in winter, but now ventilation is coming to the front and foremost of major hive setup considerations.

I don't use an inner cover down here. Neither do any of the local beeks I know...

1of6, as soon as I squish 3 lbs and a queen, you got em buddy :-D

Rast - thanks for keeping me in mind.  I'd rather they be live though. :)  Interesting note about the inner covers.  We might be seeing a combination of tradition and localized differences in hive setup.  My dad grew up in KY - he and his father never used inner covers, and just used migratory covers.  When he started keeping bees later up here in PA, the locals would chuckle at him when they saw him trying to pry his telescoping covers loose.  He switched to those from migratories and never adopted the use of an inner cover.  I've actually only heard of two people (both on beesource) north of the mason-dixon line who use migratories.  Location, location, location.


Good notes by all - it's interesting to learn the differences in management techniques and equipment from region to region.