Best way to kill apple worms without harming my bees.

[JConnolly]

What is the best way to treat my apple trees for worms (coddling moth) without harming my bees?  In the past years when I didn't treat the tree every single apple had a worm.  I don't want to spray an insecticide that will kill the bees.  My hives are only twenty feet from the closest tree.

[Maggiesdad]

Surround?  kaolin ... Search  -  'Michael Phillips organic codling' for more controls

[Dallasbeek]

Is it an inchworm (moves by humping up, then forward) or does it have legs?  If it's an inchrom, maybe bacillus thurengensis (bt) would do the job.

[Michael Bush]

I always let the birds eat them... :)

[sc-bee]

Is it an inchworm (moves by humping up, then forward) or does it have legs?  If it's an inchrom, maybe bacillus thurengensis (bt) would do the job.

That is what I was thinking... was gonna look up Xentari. But may be another strain. If Xentari you will have a dual use.

[sc-bee]

Yes Xentari is good for codling moth and guess what else.... wax moth 

[Dallasbeek]

Great, sc-bee.  Xentari is a form or brand of Bt, which acts on the caterpillar or " worm" by messing up its ability to digest anything and therefore starving it to death, thus interrupting the cycle of the moth.  If Jconnally will Google coddling moth, there's an entry from Peaceful Valley Farm Supply that tells about other ways of interrupting the life cycle of the moth, all organically.  Michael Bush has an article on Xentari's use on wax moths on his website.  Good find, sc-bee.

[JConnolly]

Good info.   Also Maggiesdad's tip led me to some really good information and I found the tanglefoot coddling moth traps and barriers and a tip that the traps also help you know when the female moths might be laying eggs so you can spray.

Is Xentari or BT safe for the bees and brood?

I've got lots of pharaoh ants in my yard too.  I have a feeling I'm gonna have to find a better way to deal with them too.

Jay.

[Dallasbeek]

Bt  is totally safe for anything except inchworms.  There are forms of Bt that affect nematodes, mosquito and various other criitters, but so far as I know, not bees or most other insects.

I'll get back to you on phaoroh ants. I had them 30 years ago and cleared them in one day with a particular stuff.  I'll get back on tomorrow with that.

Gary

[Richard M]

Tree banding and trapping.

http://www.globalnetacademy.edu.au/now-is-the-time-to-control-codling-moth-in-tasmanian-apples-and-pears/

http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/agriculture-and-food/pests-diseases-and-weeds/pest-insects-and-mites/codling-moth

http://www.permaculturesouthernhighlands.info/journal/codlingmoth.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrT2woQws3A

[CapnChkn]

That is an excellent video Richard M!

JConally, stop spraying and let the populations of predators increase.  Spraying to kill the bugs that are a problem is also killing the bugs that are helping, and you're feeding the problem ones.

What isn't mentioned is the parasitic wasps and flies will need not only the nectar from small flowers such as Dill, Cilantro, Coleus, etc, but they also need a source of food for their young.

Organic methods for gardens and farms require a certain amount of the crops the pests feed on to be used to produce the pests.  This seems counter productive, but the young of the control insects generally need that protein for their development.

BT is an organic pesticide, and is excellent for controlling almost all species of Lepidoptera, and some Diptera.  Thuricide is my favorite because I can spray it; the powder, spores of the bacteria, is harder to apply and you might not get all the plant parts.  BT is not harmful to Hymenoptera (The order which Honeybees belong).  In fact it's used in the Kurstaki strain to control Wax Moths on old brood comb.

It will have to be applied at the right time to get to the caterpillars.  The active ingredient is a crystal protein that acts as a toxin in their guts, so they have to eat it.  The video shows that the caterpillar start on the leaves and migrate to the fruits, so it will have to be applied then.

At least as long as it continues to work.    GMO (BT) corn needs to be grown in just a certain way to maintain a population of susceptible pests, to avoid breeding the super bug that nothing can kill, and the method is too easy to either ignore, abuse, or fall to ignorance....

[gww]

What are the thoughts on sinosad when not in bloom?
gww

[Dallasbeek]

Pretty toxic to honeybees if sprayed on them, but "little toxicity of dried residues". What, exactly does "little toxicity" mean.  I wonder what are the exact figures for LD50 of dried residues.


This is from Wikipedia article on Spinosad, regarding its toxicity:

"...in Honeybee (Apis mellifera Linnaeus, 1758), LD50=0.0025 mg/bee (highly toxic if directly sprayed on, little toxicity of dried residues)."


Okay, if the plant isn't blooming, the bees probably aren't interested in the plant.  Somebody more versed in this stuff wil contribute, I'm sure, but I'd have some reservations about it.

[gww]

Yea, I saw a vid on youtube on spraying apple trees for the codling moth or what ever that was mentioned earlier.  He said it wouldn't hurt the bees but not to spray it during bloom.  I intend to have bees but I also intend to do a little spraying on my fruit trees and grapes.    I have never made much of an effort to spray before but I never did very well on anything but peaches and plumbs.  I never got apples but want a few cause the trees were hard as heck to plant.  course I never did it before so we will see.
Gww

[sc-bee]

Xentari is Bt aizawai  strain . And as far as wax moth you can spray directly on bees and brood frames that are infested. Spray empty honey frames before storage to protect from wax moth. A little goes a long way.
The same strain of BT was once sold in the U.S. by Sandoz for beekeeping but they let the licenses expire. It was either called Certan or B401. It is still available in Canada and off the net. But Xentari is a fraction of the cost. I believe I put 4tsp per gallon of water in a sprayer and cover at least 60 shallow frames (I spray heavy so will probably go further) So you see a pound will go a long way. If you live where there is vegetable or fruit farming you will probably find it at the co-op.

http://www.hidhut.com/xentari-p-31.html