Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: squidink on September 30, 2011, 07:17:15 am
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Hi Peoples,
Im starting to make quite a few frames with foundation from scratch and asembling supers/bodies.
I now have over 10 hives.
My questions are;
Whats the best Staple gun to use on frames? ie electric, gas, air etc?
Whats the best nail gun to use for supers, bottoms and roofs?
Is there a good single tool that will work well on both?
Im using the nail and hammer approach for frames (and wood glue) and with the supers I am doing pilot holes and running 50mm scews to join it all together..
I am a chef by trade so building tool knowledge is not my forte!
Thanks,
Ben
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Where in Melbourne are you? I am just starting up as well and used a narrow crown (1/4 inch I think) air stapler for frames and glued and screwed the boxes (Rabeted type) The air stapler is a godsend, I already had it from another project, bought it from Aldi when they had them but Bunnings have them as well. I couldn't imagine nailing frames together, I think I would still be out in the garage :-D I plan on using it on the next supers I build as well. I'll use finger jointed supers next time and staples will be more enough. I only used rabeted boxes last time as that was all that was available. I used the staple gun for the top and base with a few screws for good measure. I can't remember what size staples I used but I can find out if you are interested.
Hope that helps.
Paul.
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I bought an electric brad nailer for frames. It was a great time saving investment. As far as the supers go, I don't mind nailing them together by hand. I'm sure a pneumatic nailer would be better and maybe more versatile, but 60 bucks verses 200 and I probably would not use the air nailer for anything else but honey frames, I just bought an electric.
By the way, does squidink refer to pasta. I too am a chef by trade....David
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Hi Paul, I am in Nunawading. What brand and model is the air stapler your using? I have got myself in a great rythem putting the frames together with a hammer and nails but I think i could reduce the time down to 1/4! Specially this season i wish to nock out some more hives..
Hi David a fellow chef! what brand/model electric nailer are you using for the frames?
thank for the feedback fella's!
cheers Ben
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For frames;
A small pneumatic nail & staple gun with a 125 psi compressor has worked for me over the last 3 years. I use 1.5 inch staples.
Supers;
Nails, hammer, & wood glue. Screws are fine but a box joint is already strong. The nails just keep it in place.
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Ben, I use 1" staples on my frames, if you add glue that's even better albeit more time consuming. On woodenware I use 1.5" staples and glue.
...JP
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i do what JP does and sometimes i use glue also. trying to be better about that. i have a pneumatic nailer/stapler and i use nails on the boxes. i have never had a box come undone, but i nail all the way down both sides.
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Ditto what Jp said except I glue both frames and hive bodies. The glue I use is Titebond II.
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I don't know if you are already doing this but I stack 20 side pieces together and use a $.10 glue brush to put the glue on all 20 at once then I start nailing them together. I use a deep super with 1/4" boards stapled across the ends, one just below the rabbet and one about 3 or 4"s down. As I nail them I slide them in the super and it holds them square until they are dried. I did this after finding the first set of frames touching the sides of the super, meaning your bee space is very hap hazard.
Jim
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Perfect for frames and boxes but you have to use a strong wood glue like Titebond III with the staples.
I have two of them. One I hold 1" staples for frames, the other 1 1/2" for boxes with dado joints.
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm (http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm)
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Ben, I use 1" staples on my frames, if you add glue that's even better albeit more time consuming. On woodenware I use 1.5" staples and glue.
Does the same stapler hold both sized staples? If so, which brand do you recommend, JP?
When it comes to frames, I'm ready to start using staples rather than nails.
And although I think I'll stick with nails when it comes to assembling supers, I want to staple supers and bottom boards together on site at cutouts...perhaps that means I can't use an air-powered stapler?
-Liz
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Liz, I purchased a Porter Cable combo kit which included air compressor, hose, a 16 gauge brad nailer, 18 gauge brad nailer and a 1" narrow crown stapler. I purchased mine from H.D. on sale for $299.00. Yes, all that for $299.00! http://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/porter-cable/products/PC3PAK.asp?CAWELAID=829718196 (http://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/porter-cable/products/PC3PAK.asp?CAWELAID=829718196)
I wanted to staple my supers together so I also purchased a Rigid (H.D. brand) crown stapler that would take a 1.5" stapler. http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm (http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm) Any brand will likely do fine.
...JP
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i'm a carpenter & already had a framing gun, 2 trim guns, a brad gun, & a staple gun. all are Sencos. my original reason for buying senco was that they have a luggage type latch that opens the nose for clearing jammed nails. most others require disassembly. all guns sooner or later will jam now & again. i find my guns have fewer problems when i buy senco brand nails instead og generic nails. also an oil type compressor will outlive the oil-less types like the porter cable units sold on the big box stores. BUT if all you are using it for is to build hives an oil-less compressor should last a long time. my compressor is used almost daily.
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Hi Paul, I am in Nunawading. What brand and model is the air stapler your using?
Hi Ben.
The stapler is Aldi's generic house brand. I got it from there when they had air tools on special. Bunnings have a similar one, brand is Trade Air if I remembr correctly. It's a narrow crown stapler. I used 22mm staples for the frames and the longest ones they had for everything else. They are probably not the best quality tools, but certainly work well enough for a hobbyist.
Paul.
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Went to Bunnings yesterday, the one they have is almost identical to mine, it's a Project Air 2 in 1 nailer/stapler, sells for 69.98 shoots narrow crown staples from 16mm to 28mm.
Paul.
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Thanks fella's!
I just borrowed a Ozito staple gun just for the frames and its working a treat!
I punched out 30 frames last night!
Ben
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I wanted to staple my supers together so I also purchased a Rigid (H.D. brand) crown stapler that would take a 1.5" stapler. http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm (http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm) Any brand will likely do fine.
...JP
JP are you still stapling your supers? I have a bunch of supers to put together and I want to leave the hammer and nail behind. Stapling would be much faster!
...DOUG
KD4MOJ
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Thanks fella's!
I just borrowed a Ozito staple gun just for the frames and its working a treat!
I punched out 30 frames last night!
Ben
wait until you build a frame jig, I can bang thirty in 5-6 minutes.
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Here's the way I assemble frames.
Frame jig.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULR8F5TBcqQ#ws)
Scott
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Scott,
I'm a new bee and really like your frame jig. I notice that the large jig is way taller than the small jig (which you said was made of 2x4's.) I see the large jig will hold the frames in a standing, vertical position while you work. Does the small jig hold the frames upright too? :?
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yup, thats how its done. I think Im going to build a 50 frame jig next. lol Only thing I do different is shove a roofing nail between the depth adjuster and the gun which disables the safety. you can hover the gun and pull trigger and nail down the line as fast as you want to move.
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Bee curious, The shorter jig works well too just doesn't hold the end bars quite as securely. It will handle medium frame too!
Scott
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See what happens when you dig up an old thread, more info and cool videos! Love the jig scott... gonna have to make one.
...DOUG
KD4MOJ
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Doug, still staple and glue all my boxes.
...JP
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there are many out in the market , but it's one that suits to your need and carry the tasks you want from. Bostich electric stapler has many features which would sure may fulfill you needs to do this job !
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in the real world i work with carpenters a lot so i use paslode impulse guns.
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I use the 1" and 1 1/2" staples also with glue. Already had a 1" Dewalt air stapler and got a Hitachi 1 1/2" air stapler. If you check around some times you can get a pretty good deal on them. Best to my memory I got the Dewalt for 65 and the Hitachi for 75, anyway good luck to you all.
Joe
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Using reconditioned Hitachi N 36804AB3 shooting 5/8", 1" & 1-1/2" 1/4 crown porter cable staples, just finished up 3k foundationaless frames and will begin working on a few medium 8 frame boxes.
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Scooter, did you get it from CPO. That is where I got mine, it wasn't reconditioned, it was an opened box.
Joe
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i'm a carpenter & already had a framing gun, 2 trim guns, a brad gun, & a staple gun. all are Sencos. my original reason for buying senco was that they have a luggage type latch that opens the nose for clearing jammed nails. most others require disassembly. all guns sooner or later will jam now & again. i find my guns have fewer problems when i buy senco brand nails instead og generic nails. also an oil type compressor will outlive the oil-less types like the porter cable units sold on the big box stores. BUT if all you are using it for is to build hives an oil-less compressor should last a long time. my compressor is used almost daily.
IMHO best quality tool for a brad gun, & a staple gun are Sencos.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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For frames I use a 10 frame jig, staples as well with titebond glue.
I use a generous amount of 2 inch 18 gauge air nails for boxes along with a generous amount of titebond III glue. I also use a coating of titebond over the nail holes entrances and along the outer cut end of the boxes for waterproofing.
All with a cheap Harbor Freight air gun. Can?t seem to wear it out. 😊
Phillip
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For frames;
A small pneumatic nail & staple gun with a 125 psi compressor has worked for me over the last 3 years. I use 1.5 inch staples.
Supers;
Nails, hammer, & wood glue. Screws are fine but a box joint is already strong. The nails just keep it in place.
I will ditto this except a crown stapler that shoots a 1.5 long staple is more expensive and more than you need. 1 1/4 is adequate for frames and a 1.5 long staple might be too long for the 45 degree end shot in the top bar.
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Hi Folks,
These days I use a narrow crown stapler with 22mm staples and apply 8 staples per frame (staples driven into the sides of the end bars) and Titebond 3. I used to use a jig for holding frames but now they are built individually. Glue is applied to 10 end bars at a time with a squeeze bottle and then the frames are assembled individually and stapled on a simple jig that keeps corners square. I find this method to be faster than using a jig and the frames are strong.
Cheers
Les
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I use 1" long 1/4" crown staples and glue for frames. I use glue and 1-1/2" long stainless steel screws for my boxes. I bought a 50# box of them. They are the square head. These strip out the least. I also bought some Old Milwaukee lifetime guaranteed driver bits.
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First requirement is Titebond 3, for frames and boxes.
Frames Ryobi compressor driven stapler, 32mm 1 1/4" i think, 1/4" crown staples
Boxes 2" galvanised screws, square drive, 16 per box.
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The most important of all is a water proof glue. Urethane base preferred. I use Elmers ProBond Max or Gorilla Glue or TiteBond3.
Boxes 3 1/2 inch Ardox Spiral nails. Hot wax dipped or Deck paint/stain.
Frames. AcornBee one piece, no assembly reqd