Foundationless lang setup?

[gusterbunny]

Okay, here goes.......silly question alert...Can I have a foundationless hive with my Lang setup???  If so, how?  Thanks bunches~ Guster

[indypartridge]

Okay, here goes.......silly question alert...Can I have a foundationless hive with my Lang setup???  If so, how?  Thanks bunches~ Guster

Two things:
One, yes to your question. Start reading here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
Also if you do a search on 'foundationless', you'll find several threads discussing different aspects.

Two, this probably should have been posted in the Main Posting Forum. Tacked on to the end of a 'Greetings' thread it won't be seen be nearly as many forum participants.

Keep in mind what Barbara said: if you go foundationless a lot of "traditionalists" will think you've gone over to the Dark Side! :)

[gusterbunny]

Thanks so much for moving me to the right spot :lol: I really appreciate the link but I need a good visual of the way the top bar of a foundationless frame would look.  I saw an old ad from 04 where Michael Bush had foundationless frames for sale.  Does anyone know if he still offers this product.  Thanks so much and personally I love the 'Dark Side' so far!  Guster

[Brian D. Bray]

Thanks so much for moving me to the right spot :lol: I really appreciate the link but I need a good visual of the way the top bar of a foundationless frame would look.  I saw an old ad from 04 where Michael Bush had foundationless frames for sale.  Does anyone know if he still offers this product.  Thanks so much and personally I love the 'Dark Side' so far!  Guster

I use foundationless frames, just use a wood strip in the groove of the top bar for a guide -- Popsicle sticks work great.

[buzzbee]

Heres a pic from a bare frame put in between a couple drawn frames:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l65/kwrabbit/Beekeeping/IMG_3852.jpg

[Ross]

Here is how I do it.  I use the center top bar now...

I just rip a 45 degree angle on the tablesaw and break out the wedge...

[gusterbunny]

Wow, now I understand perfectly!  Thank you so much for the great pictures 8-) Would it be OK for me to try foundationless frames in my honey supers?  My two deeps have beeswax foundation, so I guess I can't really do anything about that this year.  Everybody has been so helpful.  I have all these questions and I've searched and searched all over the web..........thank goodness I found this forum :-D Guster

[annette]

Yes, you can use them in the honey supers. You will probably be doing crush and strain anyway, I assume, and therefore, it would not matter if they draw out the wax combs straight anyway.

I just hived a new package on all starter strips except for 2 drawn out frames in the middle.  This is an experiment for me, as well. I will let you all know how it turns out for me.

Good luck
Annette

[KONASDAD]

what Annette is saying is, you can't extract w/ an extractor w/ foundationlesss framesb/c they will "bow-out" from centrifugal force of spinning. Most people only do foundationless in brood area so bees will have small cell or "natural cell" to combat mites. There is little benefit to doing foundationless in supers, other than saving on foundation.

[annette]

Thanks Konasdad for the good explanation. Sometimes I know we say things thinking other beekeepers will understand, but when it comes to new beeks, have to be more specific.

Take Care
Annette

[Michael Bush]

I haven't really sold any foundationless frames.  That was just a feeler to see if there was a market.  Several other people have been selling them, but they seem to be booked up.  You can search and ask around here and Beesource and see what's available currently.  Popscicle sticks in the groove work well and don't require a table saw.  I like the angled top bars a lot, but some people don't have the tools or the skills.  Ripping small pieces of wood is a dangerous hobby.  The sled Ross shows is a safer way to do it.  I should build one...

[annette]

OH by the way, they are drawing out the foundationless frames just perfectly. I guess it really works. See this is the first time for me to actually use all foundationless frames. I usually just insert them between already established brood frames. But I am so happy it is actually working.

Annette

[Utah]

Hey, I've hardly ever posted here but I have a question about the foundationless frames you all have talked about and shown.

I got a few of the top pieces like you showed in the photos. However, rather than bevel off the 45 degree angle and probably cut my finger off. I did something different, not knowing better. 

What I did was snap off the 1/4 x 1/2 inch wood strip from the top piece, then turn it so it hangs down vertically and glue and staple it in place for a starter strip.

Will this work or is it too wide for the bees to build on to it?

Thanks for any reply.

Here is how I do it.  I use the center top bar now...

I just rip a 45 degree angle on the tablesaw and break out the wedge...

[Brian D. Bray]

[What I did was snap off the 1/4 x 1/2 inch wood strip from the top piece, then turn it so it hangs down vertically and glue and staple it in place for a starter strip.

That's what I do with those type of frames.  Works great.

[gusterbunny]

Okay dokay, looks like popsicle sticks for me and my bees (I don't do power tools)!  I still think I'll give this a try in my honey supers to get a feel for how it works.  It will make lovely comb honey or squish and drain it.  Either way I'll get to see natural comb, that thrills me.  Should I use all ten frames or knock it down to 9 or 8?  With foundation I was going to try 8.  Thanks~ Guster

[bud1]

10 in the brood, 10 in super till all drawn ; after drawn you can spread it out and remove frames in the supers

[ooptec]

Hey,

I know some people who have gone foundationless and have extracted them w/no problems. Perhaps the bowing was due to too fast a rotation??

Cheers

peter