Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Finski on February 09, 2012, 02:03:29 am
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http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2011/diary112011.htm (http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2011/diary112011.htm)
Report from year 2011. Very strange writings. Very strange.
A picture text: Active bees in an auger hole in an EPS hive. The temperature outside is minus twenty Celsius. The frost mustache shows that the bees are expelling moisture from the hive through the hole.
Bees are not active in 20 C. They surely are in cluster. If a big colony has been packed for winter too tight, it will be active and will die for starving.
I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes. He found that hives are too air tight.
He had not got teaching what to do with insulated hives.
Only difference in poly hive and in wooden hive is that wood soaks water into the wall and poly hive leaks all condensation onto floor. Insulation is ofcourse a difference. Insulation value of 10 mm polyurethane is equal 4 inch dry wood.
The floor may be a mesh floor or solid floor. It may be a mesh floor whick will be closed for winter.
Europe has used polyboxes in commercial level 20 years. It have had mites too 20 years.
Biggest beeyard what I know in Finland is 3000 hives. There are several nearly 1000 hive farms.
Mite problem is well under control in Europe. Good advices we got almost 10 years ago how to do to Apistan resistant mites.
It is better that Canadian come to Germany to see how they nurse bees in poly hives and what they do to mites. There summer has perhaps the same lenght as in Canada.
Denmark has very advanced beekeeping too. Sweden and Finland have longer winter and shorter brood period than Canada.
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More or less mites
It has no meaning, because in every hive mites must be hit down and stop their reproduction.
Trickling means that it is only method what you can use in the middle of winter. When there is a brood brake, trickling is quick and most éasy way to destroy 95% of mites. It does not allways succeed. Why, who knows...
Mite population douples itself in a month. It depends how much mites are alive after winter and brooding starts.
Late mite treatment with thymol or formic acid is due to protect winter cluster bees, that they are abundant and not sucked by mites.
When treating, a hive may have 500 or 3000 mites. You just try to polish them without knowing how much they are. Some hives may be so much violated that they just die out. That is beekeeping life nowadays even among experienced beekeepers..
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The page says: "I have never seen anything to indicate that OA evaporation harms the bees, but reason insists that coating bees with acid has to have some deleterious effects."
Trickling has been used in commercial scale over 10 years. Results has been splended.
Coating bees with acid - a tiny dust or with sugar glue, it has no meaning. Important is that mites die and the colony has not problems in Spring build up.
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>I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes.
Allen Dick
"Allen Dick, originally from Ontario, is a beekeeper from Swalwell, Alberta. Swalwell is situated northeast of Calgary and 100 miles east of the Rockies. Allen began keeping bees in Alberta in the 70’s and gradually built up to 3500 colonies for Canola pollination and honey production. He sold out a couple of years ago and currently keeps only a few colonies. Allen maintains a website at www.honeybeeworld.com (http://www.honeybeeworld.com) and also hosts the website of the Iowa Honey Producers. His website contains a daily diary for several years of his operation and also has cataloged information on a number of beekeeper topics. Allen is very computer oriented and well informed on issues facing the beekeeping industry. Some of his other interests include kayaking, sailing and skiing."--The Buzz Newsletter, http://www.abuzzaboutbees.com/IHPA/TheBuzz/November05/Page5.htm (http://www.abuzzaboutbees.com/IHPA/TheBuzz/November05/Page5.htm)
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But that page is not any more maintained by Allen Dick? A guy behind the mesh hat is at least some one else.
What ever, somebody is inteventing a wheel in Canada.
Trickling is invented in Italy 1997 by prof Antonio Nanetti
Oxalic acid treatment January 2009-3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL-hG88Y-uk#)
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The page says: "I have never seen anything to indicate that OA evaporation harms the bees, but reason insists that coating bees with acid has to have some deleterious effects."
Trickling has been used in commercial scale over 10 years. Results has been splendid.
Coating bees with acid - a tiny dust or with sugar glue, it has no meaning. Important is that mites die and the colony has not problems in Spring build up.
yes but you are trickling and he is evaporating (fumes from heat)--the evaporating is being explored --because--
beekeepers need to be able to apply more than one or two treatments in a season-with the high mite pressure
exhibited in the commercial realm--trickling wont fill the bill for a large portion of beekeepers --remember we all have palm
trees ;) --its just a observation dont let it eat you alive-- 8-) RDY-B
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Jee jee. Remember remember. You may do your beekeeping as difficult as you want.
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>I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes.
Allen Dick
"Allen Dick, originally from Ontario, is a beekeeper from Swalwell, Alberta. Swalwell is situated northeast of Calgary and 100 miles east of the Rockies. Allen began keeping bees in Alberta in the 70’s and gradually built up to 3500 colonies for Canola pollination and honey production. He sold out a couple of years ago and currently keeps only a few colonies. Allen maintains a website at www.honeybeeworld.com (http://www.honeybeeworld.com) and also hosts the website of the Iowa Honey Producers. His website contains a daily diary for several years of his operation and also has cataloged information on a number of beekeeper topics. Allen is very computer oriented and well informed on issues facing the beekeeping industry. Some of his other interests include kayaking, sailing and skiing."--The Buzz Newsletter, http://www.abuzzaboutbees.com/IHPA/TheBuzz/November05/Page5.htm (http://www.abuzzaboutbees.com/IHPA/TheBuzz/November05/Page5.htm)
yes very nice and i would like to add for finskis benefit not to be confused with other well known ALASKA beekeeper
with the name DICK ALLEN-- 8-) RDY-B
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I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes. He found that hives are too air tight. He had not got teaching what to do with insulated hives.
?? Poly hive are supposed to bee air tight like a bell. With draft and ventilating over the floor to ventilate out condensation and damp.
Strange that they don't work i Alberta when they work for Swedish beekeepers.
For Swedish beekeepers it is strange that you guys ventilate your hives through top ventilation , all the heat escapes from the hive but it seems to work if used properly.
Wooden hives need more sugar too survive the winter than poly hives , but both work if used properly.
mvh edward :-P
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I have read from researches that mesh floor hives have 20% less mites, but I have not met report that mesh floor has saved a hive from mites or from mite treatment. A mite population grows 100% every months. So you see that 20% has no meaning in this battle.
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Jee jee. Remember remember. You may do your beekeeping as difficult as you want.
Finski,
According to the Canadian info my bees should have melted by now, been washed away by the condensation, eaten all their stores, over run with brood, over run with mites ... yet none of these has happened. No matter what the temp is outside, they keep the temp inside, the temp they want with no condensation visible even at -8c :)
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Jee jee. Remember remember. You may do your beekeeping as difficult as you want.
Finski,
According to the Canadian info my bees should have melted by now, been washed away by the condensation, eaten all their stores, over run with brood, over run with mites ... yet none of these has happened. No matter what the temp is outside, they keep the temp inside, the temp they want with no condensation visible even at -8c :)
give it a litel more time it will come soon enough--- ;) RDY-B
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Poly hives keep the heat in , but they also keep the heat out , if you live in hotter climates, Insulation !
One of the problems is that they don't do well in the suns UV rays so you need to paint them " sun screen" 8-)
mvh edward :-P
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Finski, I am almost tempted to Prompt my Albertan friend to come on here and defend himself. But he probably doesn't need the trouble right now. He has some illness in his family. He is just doing a study on mite control not trying to pick a fight. He may very well repeat the process with a drizzle, i don't know.
He has a friend who is making fine epe hive bodies and I was really covetous til I heard about increased mite load. They are also fairly expensive and frieght out of Canada would be prohibitively expensive. I can see the poly boxes advantage in cold country but don't think I am quite that cold. I will just keep mine wrapped till May and call it good.
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Finski, I am almost tempted to Prompt my Albertan friend to come on here and defend himself.
Do I then ask half of Europe to attack...Just stupid.... idea...
"We, half Europe", have used so long polyhives that it has no meaning what somebody says.
But we half Europe like to debate, which bottom board is the best and what inner cover insulation is the best.
Do we need upper entrance....no yes no yes. We do not wrap hives, but those wrap because they have allways wrapped
Jep, he have good issues to keep discussion on after 20 years.
.That keeps beekeepers blood moving.
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I spent a couple hours reading the Alberta bee keepers diary (Allen Dick). A very impressive log indeed! Loads of information. I wish I was that religious in keeping a bee diary. Sad to read about the health issues, I wish them the best.
It is amazing that on Jan 19th he reported seeing bees walking around and fanning the top entrance when it was -26C outside! I’m not sure how you would explain that in a poly hive with only 30mm thick sides. It seems all the bees would need to be in cluster at -26C, even in a poly hive :?
Finski do you have an explanation? Do your bees walk around and fan at -26C?
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Sounds like they have egg laying and brood rearing going on :( not a good sign
mvh edward :-P
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Edward, maybe that's why these bees are in 3 boxes! The bees need all that food to raise brood :)
I don't know how to explain it :? My super insulated hives have 50mm polystyrene walls and are packed with bees (1 brood box). I haven't noticed any activity at the top entrance below about -7C. However I haven't been as observent as Allen Dick either.
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Finski do you have an explanation? Do your bees walk around and fan at -26C?
Yes I have seen in cases that they had lots of brood there and they are desparately thirsty. When I have poured half a litre water onto combs, they calm down.
But it has nothing to do with polyhive. It in queen genes that it makes brood a year around and then ´die off.
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I spent a couple hours reading the Alberta bee keepers diary (Allen Dick). A very impressive log indeed! Loads of information. I wish I was that religious in keeping a bee diary. Sad to read about the health issues, I wish them the best.
It is amazing that on Jan 19th he reported seeing bees walking around and fanning the top entrance when it was -26C outside! I’m not sure how you would explain that in a poly hive with only 30mm thick sides. It seems all the bees would need to be in cluster at -26C, even in a poly hive :?
Finski do you have an explanation? Do your bees walk around and fan at -26C?
maybe fanning to move air for other reasons than temp control e.g. CO2, or humidity. hi
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I have seen many times bees fanning in upper entrance in -5C but normally when we have -25c, it is February and hives are under snow. In -25C the upper entrance is closed with mouldy frost.
One reason to loud hive is that they have a mouse inside or strong odor of mouse piss.
But I say that I have used polyhives 23 years. If I open the hive near freezing point, bees are not walking here and there. They are tighly in cluster.
Further more I install 15 W electrict heating after cleansing flight into hives.On those nights we have 10-15 degrees frost. In this case too hives have a tight cluster which tell that they protect their brood. If the hive is queenless, it is dispersed evenly in the box.
Here you see a colony which had on 15W electrict heating in that empty part.
When a cluster enlargened in 10 minutes, it filled the whole 5 frames.
Polyhive does not heat the colony. It gives only a shelter and reduce heat leak from the cluster. The cluster contol itself the proper heat.
Insulation saves energy and winterfood
(http://bee.freesuperhost.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/tiny.jpg)
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Its -8C here today. I went out to see if the bees were fanning their entrances. No they were not! Pointing my IR thermometer into my top entrance poly hives, there were reading 10C to 12C (55F). At those temps, my bees are in a cluster. As Finski says, that 12C inside the hive is from heat leaking from the cluster.
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Its -8C here today. I went out to see if the bees were fanning their entrances. No they were not! Pointing my IR thermometer into my top entrance poly hives, there were reading 10C to 12C (55F). At those temps, my bees are in a cluster. As Finski says, that 12C inside the hive is from heat leaking from the cluster.
-8c and in a cluster? - wusses
-10C outside and inside 25C at the top and 15C at the bottom... :)
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I have seen more dead bees in the snow around my warmer hives than my colder hives. That may not be a good thing. It looks like more bees go exploring out in the great white north when it feels like Tampa Florida inside.
Keep in mind I don’t have probes (thermistors) inside my hives to measure the exact temps at the top and bottom, I’m just pointing a IR thermometer into the entrance hole and taking a reading. The odds are it is a bit warmer inside than what I’m reading.
One good thing about my bottom entrance hives is the entrance is covered in snow so they can’t go exploring outside when it is -8C. Pointing the IR probe at the bottom entrances of my nucs read 0C today. I hope they’re not going to experience an ice box effect :(
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The uninsulated hives just may be too cold to do housekeeping. My observation hive in the living room rarely went out other than evacuation or housekeeping in weather that permitted it. If it was extreme cold there was very little activity inside.