thanks for the tips. i used them (although despite searching couldn't find the queen).
got most of the bees. they had one night in the nuc and then decamped. Hopefully they will stay in the 8 frame deep I put them in this time.
Ended up cutting under them and pushing a tarp in, then emptying the lot into the box (will have to get all the vegetation out later, if they don't).
Then, just using my hands to scoop a lot up. Unfortunately this still left a lot in the reeds.
Never found the queen, but I think I eventually got her (saw lots of fanning bees as I went along).
Some photos.
1. The nuc with the swarm where I found them the next day after hiving them
image 12. closeup of the swarm in grass/reeds
close up of bees3. wax work they did overnight in the nuc
wax work on inside of nuc4. wax work they did drawing out the foundation overnight
drawing foundation