Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Janemma on May 25, 2008, 08:48:06 pm
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Could someone please just pop along to my blog at the link in my signature below and have a look at the picture of the frame. THis is from hive number two. I did my second inspection yesterday and we still couldn't see a Queen and couldn't see any eggs - although to be honest the veil makes it hard - I don't think I will bother in future with the veil as you can't see well with it on can you?
Anyway, can anyone interpret for me what they see on the frame....what the capped cells are etc etc...this isn't the central frame - this is one of the outer frames - maybe third from the centre. The hive is now two weeks old. Still about 6 frames full and the bees seem to be focusing on bringing pollen and nectar in as we finally have some in the area at last - rather than building come on the outer frames but they are busy and foraging well anyway. I photographed this frame because there are so few bees on it - so easier to see.
Thank you! Would be good to know what we are seeing!
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Hi Jane!
The bees look fine to me. When I got my first 2 packages I lost a queen, but I doubt you did....Maybe you should look at the frame with the most bees on it. Thats what I did/do. Also, I have only seen a queen one time in all 5 of my hives since I started bees!
Once you see eggs and larva you'll find that it gets really easy to see them later. Even with a veil! The first time I saw them I was looking, and looking.....saw nothing...then, POW!!...There they all were! Right where I had been looking!
I use plastic foundation, just like you.Well, this year I got a bunch of black foundation as I wanted to build by own frames. Building frames, I thought, was intimidating when I started bees. Its a lot cheaper building frames AND VERY EASY! Just stick one together with glue and a few nails and just pop in the foundation.Once you've built one, you're an expert!
Oh,...I got black because its supposed to be easier to see the eggs and larva. I think that if you let the light get on the foundation just right you'll be able to see stuff better :)
Ok,....I gotta look at your blog some more..It sure is nice!
your friend,
john
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Hi Jane!
Ok,....I gotta look at your blog some more..It sure is nice!
your friend,
john
John you should email me via my profile and I'll send you an invite to my real blog! As you learned lol I'm a little blog obsessed hahahaha!
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Do you think from looking at that frame that I have a Queen - would you say they are acting as if they have a Queen? The capping of whatever etc etc? You don't think it looks like they are Queenless? Its been two weeks and they don't act Queenless - ie they aren't agitated or aggressive or anything - they aren't melancholic or anything - they seem to be doing what they should be doing - we just haven't seen the eggs or Queen or larvae yet. But I know that could be because we are such beginners......
I know we need to give them time.....I just don't want to do the wrong thing.....
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Look at another frame. I mean, I dont see any eggs or larva on this frame in the picture. Sorry, i tend to drift off the subjects sometimes.
your friend,
john
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The top one is a picture of a frame of honey with a few cells of pollen.
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The top one is a picture of a frame of honey with a few cells of pollen.
Ok thank you! It's good to know what I'm looking at!
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Janemma, just a word of caution, if you don't mind me saying. Your hives are young and the little ones can get by right now being so close, but as the colonies grow in number, please provide them with proper protection.
Its one thing for us to get stung on the face but a little one, its an entire different story.
Your bees look fine btw.
...JP
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I saw in one of your photos that you had a 2x4 under the back of the hive apparently tipping it forward. I know tipping the hive forward is a good idea to let water run out but a 2x4 sees a little much. I could be wrong, and maybe it does not make any difference. I just thought I would bring it up.
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I saw in one of your photos that you had a 2x4 under the back of the hive apparently tipping it forward. I know tipping the hive forward is a good idea to let water run out but a 2x4 sees a little much. I could be wrong, and maybe it does not make any difference. I just thought I would bring it up.
It seems the consenus is to place the hives level, with maybe a slight tilt forward.
...JP
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A "slight" tip forward would be between 1/8" and 1/4" fall in the run of the bottom board. More and it may fall over eventually. :)
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Janemma, just a word of caution, if you don't mind me saying. Your hives are young and the little ones can get by right now being so close, but as the colonies grow in number, please provide them with proper protection.
Its one thing for us to get stung on the face but a little one, its an entire different story.
Your bees look fine btw.
...JP
Oh I will thanks - the bees weren't out that day at all! Hence the fact I was letting them so close like that ;) If the bees were about at all they wouldn't have been as relaxed anyway! I just thought it made neat pictures! They don't mind the bees but they don't get THAT close normally unless the bees are inside!
So the bees dn't look Queenless despite us not seeing ANY signs of them having a Queen? I should just relax?
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Thanks - I'll remove the piece of wood and find a smaller one. I was worried about water collecting in the hive when it rains. DH has plenty of wood in th workshop so he'll have something thinner to use! Thanks for the advice everyone! Can you tell from the pictures that the bees are doing ok - that they have a Queen??? Is that a stupd question from pictures? From what 've read they don't act Queenless.....they are acting fine.....
My 15 year old thinks its funny to walk around mumbling 'I'd be looking for a Queen Supplier' but I don't want to rush into anything if they're doing fine already. OMG I think I'm obsessed!
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Janemma, just a word of caution, if you don't mind me saying. Your hives are young and the little ones can get by right now being so close, but as the colonies grow in number, please provide them with proper protection.
Its one thing for us to get stung on the face but a little one, its an entire different story.
Your bees look fine btw.
...JP
Oh I will thanks - the bees weren't out that day at all! Hence the fact I was letting them so close like that ;) If the bees were about at all they wouldn't have been as relaxed anyway! I just thought it made neat pictures! They don't mind the bees but they don't get THAT close normally unless the bees are inside!
So the bees dn't look Queenless despite us not seeing ANY signs of them having a Queen? I should just relax?
When did you install them again? It seems they are still just building, so I wouldn't worry about what you're not seeing just yet.
...JP
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When did you install them again? It seems they are still just building, so I wouldn't worry about what you're not seeing just yet.
...JP
Just over two weeks ago.
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When did you install them again? It seems they are still just building, so I wouldn't worry about what you're not seeing just yet.
...JP
Just over two weeks ago.
Yep, they will need some more time for any definitive answer. Give it another week.
...JP
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Thanks...I'll try to be patient ;) I think this beekeeping thing will be good for me ;)
PS My little guy thinks your avatar is HYSTERICAL!!!!!
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Thanks...I'll try to be patient ;) I think this beekeeping thing will be good for me ;)
PS My little guy thinks your avatar is HYSTERICAL!!!!!
Domo-kun: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/domo_kun.jpg&imgrefurl=http://technabob.com/blog/2007/09/15/domo-kun-mimobot-drives-set-to-bare-their-teeth/&h=440&w=520&sz=37&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=M0nZyEeZQ4vvkM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddomo%2Bkun%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den
...JP
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Yo, JP,
I always wondered about that creepy little guy!. Just last nite Janelle asked what that "Thing" is! :-D
I always thought he looked kind of like that little voodoo doll that murdered people in one of those shows, either the twilite zone or Night Gallery!
have you got him on a T-shirt yet?
your friend,
john
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Yo, JP,
I always wondered about that creepy little guy!. Just last nite Janelle asked what that "Thing" is! :-D
I always thought he looked kind of like that little voodoo doll that murdered people in one of those shows, either the twilite zone or Night Gallery!
have you got him on a T-shirt yet?
your friend,
john
No t-shirt, but loved Night Gallery, it was a very cool show!!
...JP
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thanks for the video clip - I ahd to tell DS it was broken after a while so he would stop watching ;)
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Looks like an awful lot of syrup or nectar in there and no brood area, unless I missed it in the pictures. If your feeding them, I would take the welfare kitchen away from them and make them work for a living and see what happens. All the pics I looked at seemed to be nectar or syrup top to bottom. You want boxes full of bees to make honey,and you won't get them if there is no room to expand the brood nest. Also, bees are vigorus gatherers when there is room in the hive. They get lazy when there is little room, and often turn into swarm engines. If your trying to build up a comb bank, you need lots of bees. Again, you won't get it if they don't have room to raise more bees.
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Looks like an awful lot of syrup or nectar in there and no brood area, unless I missed it in the pictures. If your feeding them, I would take the welfare kitchen away from them and make them work for a living and see what happens. All the pics I looked at seemed to be nectar or syrup top to bottom. You want boxes full of bees to make honey,and you won't get them if there is no room to expand the brood nest. Also, bees are vigorus gatherers when there is room in the hive. They get lazy when there is little room, and often turn into swarm engines. If your trying to build up a comb bank, you need lots of bees. Again, you won't get it if they don't have room to raise more bees.
I haven't fed them for a while now. I only fed them before there was pollen in the area. I did give them a bit last week when there was constant rain in the area for days on end but not since - the feeders are left on the hive only because the entrance reducers were trimmed to get the feeders to fit so we leave the feeders in place but they are left empty now.
They have built comb on 5 or 6 frames in each hive. I didn't think I was supposed to add another Super until thay had built on 7 frames at least. I know I can switch around the frames though...should I do that now?
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Just a thought - can temperature stop bees from laying eggs? Our weather has been awful lately - we have only really had a handful of good days since the bees arrived - four or five days of 20c + weather and the rest of the time it has been cold and rainy and VERY windy. We had high winds (60km winds for a few days) we had constant rain for days. The last few days have been cold today was 8c (46f) with a frost last night. The blossom on our apple tree still isn't out - it's almost out but not quite....
Can this effect things?
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Just a thought - can temperature stop bees from laying eggs? Our weather has been awful lately - we have only really had a handful of good days since the bees arrived - four or five days of 20c + weather and the rest of the time it has been cold and rainy and VERY windy. We had high winds (60km winds for a few days) we had constant rain for days. The last few days have been cold today was 8c (46f) with a frost last night. The blossom on our apple tree still isn't out - it's almost out but not quite....
Can this effect things?
Yes, cold weather can halt egg production.
...JP
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Janeemma,
I don't know if you are using screened bottom boards, but if you are, there really isn't a need to tip the hive at all. The point of the slight slant forward (emphasis on slight) is to allow water not to accumulate in the hive bottom, but if your bottom board is screened, that issue is irrelevant.
Linda T in Atlanta
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Yo, JP,
I always wondered about that creepy little guy!. Just last nite Janelle asked what that "Thing" is! :-D
I always thought he looked kind of like that little voodoo doll that murdered people in one of those shows, either the twilite zone or Night Gallery!
have you got him on a T-shirt yet?
your friend,
john
John, I clearly remember that show. There was the little vodoo doll that had the knife that it kept slipping under the door trying to cut the people. I think it was with Karen Black and the show was called "a Triology of Terror", it was three shows in one. I think the other show in the trilogy was something about some woman that wouldn't stop smoking and her husband put her in a room that had an electrified floor or something and every time that she smoked the floor would be electrified. Something like that. That was many moons ago, and just tryin' to bring back something from the cobwebs of the mind, ooops, totally off topic!!!! Beautiful and most wonderful day, lovin' our lives we all share and so do love. Cindi
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Janemma, I recommend that you feed your bees constantly in the first few months! Newly hived packages really have to work hard to draw out 20 frames of comb and the only way they will do this is with a good nectar flow or having access to 1:1 syrup (imitation nectar).
With the cold weather and rain confining your bees to their hives, they are not able to get out and collect nectar. So, you need to feed them. The commercial beek that I bought my packages from said that it takes about 5 gallons of syrup to draw out 20 frames!
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Janemma, "DO NOT" work your bees with out your veil.
Get in a position where the sun is coming over your shoulder and let the sun shine in the cells.
Please don't get stung in the eye or nose.
Pictures are nice.
doak
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Oh my what to do what to do...to feed or not to feed that is the question! Some say to feed and some say to NOT feed.....
I don't know what to do :(
My gut says to NOT feed them......until the Fall...or unless we have a really bad Summer.....but I am so new at this and I just don't know.....
This is worse than parenting - because you get so much different advice from everyone! I am so grateful to you all but its very confusing!
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Janeemma,
I don't know if you are using screened bottom boards, but if you are, there really isn't a need to tip the hive at all. The point of the slight slant forward (emphasis on slight) is to allow water not to accumulate in the hive bottom, but if your bottom board is screened, that issue is irrelevant.
Linda T in Atlanta
No, my bottom boards are solid and not screened so they need to be slanted - and the ground down there is not completely flat so it's a bit deceiving and the wood is actually helping level out the hive too.....I will change it though as maybe it is too tilted.
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Jan
When I installed my packages I fed them sugar syrup which had lemongrass oil and a bit of Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar in it. A 2:1 ratio I believe...I fed them for about 2 weeks and they took the 2 Gallons a week right down...They are now on their 3rd brood medium and building up like mad...
Have fun!
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Janemma. I think that the first year of keeping bees has got to be the most confusing of all, I hear you, I remember my feelings. I am still rather confused. You are given so many choices, and just don't have the experience to know of what choice to make. You will need to go with your gut feelings. And this can be confusing too. It is a hard thing. You will fair well though, have no fears about that, you are a new and concerned beekeeper. In a couple of years (and it could be longer, like me, I began in April 2005), you will look back and say, "now what was so confusing and hard about that", hee, hee. It is a lot to learn and alot to understand about the bees.
This is my two cents, we are both from north of the border, you have short and intense summers, nectar flows, we have longer summers, milder winters, but as one Canadian to another. Listen to what I have to say, take it as my two cents only. But listen, then make your decision.
To feed or not to feed is a huge question, no doubt. Some will say don't feed, the bees will have enough from nature. Some will say feed, they don't have enough with nature.
Nature provides nectar yes, and no. It depends on the weather, the location, and man it can change from within a very few kilometres away. For example. I live across the river from a town, I live close to the mountains. My flows are at least 3 weeks behind those that are across the river, and it is only about 20 km away, if that. It is simply amazing and stunning.
You are in your first year of building up. The bees will need your help now. They are drawing comb, this requires copious amounts of carbohydrates for the bees to secrete wax. They must have sufficient food to do this. And you must do this by providing sugar syrup. The bees are new. It takes about 6 weeks for a package of bees to build up to have a decent sized brood nest. With enough nurse and foraging bees to support the colony. When you have package bees, those bees will soon die off with the new brood replacing them. There is a huge amount of bees to begin with, a huge loss of bees and then as the brood hatches the colony builds up again, real fast. But they need enough food to do it.
I don't care what people will say. Package bees need to be fed for at least 6 weeks to get them through this incredible amount of wax building and brood rearing. Every book that I have ever read said to feed the be packaged bees for a long time. I will probably get flack from saying this, but that is OK, this is my opinion and I am stickin' with it. If the bees are getting enough from nature they won't use the syrup, but it will be there in case they need it.
My first year with bees, I fed my bees for about 2 months, they consumed all the syrup that I fed them, all the time, and I was shocked at how much they used. As the summer progressed, I stoppped and the made out OK. Jane, if I were you, I would feed your bees syrup for at least 6 weeks. You will not be taking a lot of honey for yourself this year (most likely), so the honey will not be adulterated with syrup for human consumption. I am hoping that this may make you feel a little bit less confused about this issue that is bothering you so much, and I know that it is. Feed your bees. It cannot hurt to feed your bees, and may get them through some very hard times if there is not enough to feed.
I lost a nuc at the end of May last year because I did not provide enough food for this colony. I thought that they were getting enough from nature, I learn by the many, many mistakes that I make, and let me tell ya, I am the queen of the mistaker. Have that most beautiful day, feeling a little bit better about confusing issues. My deep regards. Cindi
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Cindi thank you so much for your reassuring post! I really appreciate that! I do sometimes wonder if advice varies so much because of where we live - I know our weather and our Summer is so very VERY different to almost everyone elses here - our blossom on our trees isn't even quite fully open yet! I am just so worried that I am going to harm these little creatures! I am really not in this for the honey! I am in this to learn about these amazing creatures and to help them in some way because beekeeping has always fascinated me. I would hate to start off this hobby by killing off a colony by doing the wrong thing!
Thank you!
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it may have something to do with where you are, but it also has to do with what we are doing to them.
your package is kind of like a swarm. it needs a new home and it has to start over from scratch. unlike a swarm, your package has no say in where it builds it's home.
your more mature hive in the wild will get to keep all that it stores, and will regulate it's size and health by swarming. when we keep a hive, we take part of the food they have saved and we try to keep them from swarming.
bees are like any other thing we choose to keep. we must manage them and care for them. because we have altered their environment for our benefit, we must recognize that their ability to survive is not what it would have been if we had not interfered.
feed :-)
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Jane, welcome. Kathy said some interesting stuff too, listen.
You do not have alot of food sources naturally for the bees yet, if you don't feed, what will they gather to feed themselves and their young. You are thinking and listening. Good. Have a most beautiful and wonderful day, that awesome life, that great life, Cindi
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Thank you both - I went out and filled their feeders again :) they don't seem to be taking as much as they were when they first arrived (when it was being filled daily) but they are at the feeders so I guess there is still an obvious need!!! :)
Another thing I don't understand about these silly bees is that we have about a million dandelions now and yet these bees of mine are not interested in them - or the blossom on the apple trees on our land that is finally flowering - they seem to go off of our land to forage - I don't see our bees on any of our plants or flowers - don't spot them anywhere - only bumblebees!! Is this normal? I was hoping my bees would pollinate my own plants NOT my neighbours ;)
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They will go to the best source, whether in quantity or quality.
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I have noticed this too. Maybe there is an optimum time to get nectar/pollen from a flower?? It takes a few days for the pollen to develop to be ready to collect. Go out & touch the flowers, the 1st few days there is no pollen, then there is. Now my bees are all over em! Just my unscientific observation... :roll: Also, as new bees hatch out they will need more feed so your girls are building up! :-D Jody
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Janemma, bees will forage on what is most attractive to them. Maybe they have found a source that is not at your near place. Bees are devoted to certain crops at certain times, that is why they are such great pollinators.
I had something very strange happen with my bees this year. I have always heard people speaking of how the bees loved dandelions. I began keeping bees in April of 2005. That year, the next year, and the next year I narry saw a honeybee on the myriad of dandelions that grow here. This year, the dandelions we covered in them.
We have had a very unseasonably cold year, everything is late by about 2 weeks. I am not exaggerating one little bit. I am in a particularly cold spot. For example. I noticed within our town which is about 6 km west of our home that the Bridal Veil X Bumalda is in full bloom. That be the Bridal Veil that is pink, extremely fragrant and extremely attractive to the bees. I have the same cultivar here. I have two massive X Bumalda that are of this species. It is not even close to coming into bloom yet, the buds are just only buds. I would think that they will be fully open in about two weeks. Normally, this tree is in full bloom by May 30. Not.
Something was not blooming this year when the dandelions were blooming, something which in previous years the bees obviously loved more than the dandelion flowers. I wish I knew what it was that was not blooming and made them forage the dandelions. These strange things with Mother Nature certainly are a befuddler.
Another oddity. People speak of the honeybee pollinating the raspberries. Never have I seen a honeybee on my raspberries, and I have had these since we moved here, 18 years ago. But there are the bumblebees by the thousands. Weird. They are wonderful pollinators. The raspberries should be setting buds and flowering any day now. Because of the number of honeybees on the dandelions, I will be observing deeply who is pollinating them this year.....Beautiful day, gotta be lovin' this life we all live and share, on our Great Planet, Earth. Cindi
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Cindi,
here is a honeybee on our raspberries.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l65/kwrabbit/Beekeeping/IMG_2838.jpg)
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Ken, oooh what a lovely shot!!! Mine are just coming into bloom too, gonna have to check it out, who is pollinating them this year. Beauty. Have that most wonderful day, livin', lovin', this beautiful life. Cindi
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I know we tend to want to get rid of the veil and brag " How gentle our bees are."
Just remember how unlikely but possible, "and Murphy's Law usually prevails for me", It only takes one sting in the EYE and the sight in that eye could be gone forever!!!
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Veils are the most important thing in the world in my eyes, (get the pun). When I work the colonies if my eyes, ears, throat, mouth are all protected, I have the strength of hundreds, I have no fear that I will be blinded or have a sting inside my ear canal. Never would I work bees without facial protection. Yep, I have heard what a bee sting to the eye can do, and you don't think that the wild animal goes for the eyes, well, think again. Beautiful and most wonderful day, lovin' and livin' our great lives. Cindi