Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => TOP BAR HIVES - WARRE HIVES - LONG HIVES => Topic started by: Daddys Girl on May 02, 2008, 05:53:19 pm
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I'm reading stuff here that suggests that you can't put the bees in to foundationless setting and expect them to get it right. True?
I have a second package coming the week of the 10th, and I wanted to put them into a top bar hive. Will they regress on their own?
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Feral bees do fine without frames. They drawn comb to fit there hive area. I've put packaged bees directly into hives with srarter strips or foundationless frames had had them build exellent comb from the get go. I've also had them do some weird things. Repositioning the combs so they lie true to the frame usually fixes any problems.
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I populated a TBH using a package of bees on Wednesday. I didn't go in yet to see how they are doing. Maybe this weekend.
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i hived a tbh a month ago with foundationless bars. the first couple of bars where a bit off just cut the comb and straitened it out. once i got them drawing comb on a few of the bars it got easier..
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>I'm reading stuff here that suggests that you can't put the bees in to foundationless setting and expect them to get it right. True?
Almost all the time. Keep an eye on them. If they don't, cut that first comb and rubber band it in a frame and then they will.
>I have a second package coming the week of the 10th, and I wanted to put them into a top bar hive. Will they regress on their own?
Only if you cull out the larger comb eventually.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#whatisregression
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Almost all the time. Keep an eye on them. If they don't, cut that first comb and rubber band it in a frame and then they will.
Same applies to a TBH?
Only if you cull out the larger comb eventually.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#whatisregression
So in a TBH, what would you expect their first regression to be? If they are 5.4 and you let them build the comb?
When you're culling their first combs out, when would you do so? Is this where fashioning a QE for the TBH would be useful, to move brood comb to the far side so it can hatch out before culling?
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>Same applies to a TBH?
You may have to build the frame. But yes, a crooked comb will only lead to more crooked comb.
>So in a TBH, what would you expect their first regression to be? If they are 5.4 and you let them build the comb?
The problem with packages is I don't know if they are 5.4mm. They could have been raised on 5.4mm or Pierco (5.2mm) or Mann Lake PF100s (4.95mm). So they might build anywhere from 5.2mm to 4.7mm on the first try.
>When you're culling their first combs out, when would you do so?
People pull honey from hives anytime the bees have a surplus. If you work the larger combs to the outsides of the brood nest eventually you'll get them to emerge and fill with honey. Then you can harvest them.
>Is this where fashioning a QE for the TBH would be useful, to move brood comb to the far side so it can hatch out before culling?
I wouldn't bother with a queen excluder. It's not necessary. Once the combs make it to the edge of the brood nest and the bees contract the brood nest in the fall they are easy to pull without taking any brood.
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>So in a TBH, what would you expect their first regression to be? If they are 5.4 and you let them build the comb?
The problem with packages is I don't know if they are 5.4mm. They could have been raised on 5.4mm or Pierco (5.2mm) or Mann Lake PF100s (4.95mm). So they might build anywhere from 5.2mm to 4.7mm on the first try.
I used the 5.4 number as a hypothetical starting that I have gotten from reading both your stuff and the articles in other places. What I have been trying to get clearer in my head before I start the next package is what I might expect to see, and if the bees will take the steps on their own, I am content to learn the management practices to let them do that.
People pull honey from hives anytime the bees have a surplus. If you work the larger combs to the outsides of the brood nest eventually you'll get them to emerge and fill with honey. Then you can harvest them.
>Is this where fashioning a QE for the TBH would be useful, to move brood comb to the far side so it can hatch out before culling?
I wouldn't bother with a queen excluder. It's not necessary. Once the combs make it to the edge of the brood nest and the bees contract the brood nest in the fall they are easy to pull without taking any brood.
Ah. Okay. I envision the queen running all over the combs, and needing all the extra space she can get to do her work.
So when I put the package in, I put the QC on bar 4 or 5, and then let the brood expand for the year. At the point the brood contracts, you remove the combs on the edges and then start adding empty bars to the center or 'front' of the brood area so that the larger combs are pushed outwards from the brood the following year, and then remove the combs again after next year's brood contraction?
Does the placement of the entrance on the TBH affect how this management is done? End versus Side.
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Bees almost always build comb on the guides. Rarely they don't, but if they don't they will continue to make EVERY comb off in that same direction. So keep an eye on them. If they get a good start they will most likely continue it.
You can feed empty bars in between two of your best brood combs every time they have the last one drawn and layed up. All the way until they start contracting the brood nest in the fall.