Beginner's mistake (forgot to take out the empty queen cage)

[joydivision]

I've started an open bar hive about 3 weeks ago.  The problem is I never took out the empty queen cage and it's now stuck. I just found out I was suppose to do this. What do I do? 

[beyondthesidewalks]

How is it stuck?  Stuck in wax or propolized somewhere in the hive?  However it is, can you not pry it loose with your hive tool?  Don't worry about the bees or the void it might leave.  They'll fix it nicely.  Bees are extremely capable of fixing our mistakes most of the time.  :)

[AllenF]

Cut it out, hammer it out, or just leave it in there.

[joydivision]

I just pulled out the bar that I had the cage attached to.  It was next to this cardboard divider I made.  The first bar hardly had any comb because most of it was attached to the divider. A few bees had gotten behind the divider as well.  I laid the cage (which had a few bees in it still, I didn't examine closely enough to see the queen.) on the hive, put the divider back in (probably not as good as it was in before) and left the hive.  I'm very frustrated.  What should I do?  Should I dispose of comb on the divider so the bees can start over and hopefully attach to the bar? Should I completely take out the divider?

Thanks for all your help thus far!

[FRAMEshift]

If I understand what you are saying, this seems to represent the most common problem with top bar hives (I guess that's what you mean by open bar?)  Since there are no side or bottom supports, the bees attach to whatever they can.  At the end of the hive, this includes your divider.  I would cut out any comb that is not where it should be.  You might swap top bars so a fully drawn one is at the end of the hive next to the divider.   I'm not sure how the queen cage plays into this without seeing a photo of the comb.

The bees are just doing what bees should do.... supporting their comb.  If you don't like this, you might want to use frames instead of top bars.

[joydivision]

If I understand what you are saying, this seems to represent the most common problem with top bar hives (I guess that's what you mean by open bar?)  Since there are no side or bottom supports, the bees attach to whatever they can.  At the end of the hive, this includes your divider.  I would cut out any comb that is not where it should be.  You might swap top bars so a fully drawn one is at the end of the hive next to the divider.   I'm not sure how the queen cage plays into this without seeing a photo of the comb.

The bees are just doing what bees should do.... supporting their comb.  If you don't like this, you might want to use frames instead of top bars.

I just pushed the divider down along with the cage.  I'm hoping the bees would recycle the comb and expand through the rest of the hive.  What do you think?

[FRAMEshift]

Bees don't recycle comb.  If there is comb where you don't want it, cut it out.

[L Daxon]

Be sure and save the queen cage and turn it into a Christmas tree ornament with a date on it.  I did this to commorate the year I got into beekeeping. The little metal strip  bends into a nice way to  hang the qc on the tree.

[FRAMEshift]

Be sure and save the queen cage and turn it into a Christmas tree ornament with a date on it.  I did this to commorate the year I got into beekeeping. The little metal strip  bends into a nice way to  hang the qc on the tree.

Nice.  I like it.

[JackM]

Be sure and save the queen cage and turn it into a Christmas tree ornament with a date on it.  I did this to commorate the year I got into beekeeping. The little metal strip  bends into a nice way to  hang the qc on the tree.

I second that, great idea

[joydivision]

Bees don't recycle comb.  If there is comb where you don't want it, cut it out.

The comb I didn't want was 3 weeks of comb attached to the divider where my queen bee was loacated.  I pushed the divider down yesterday.  Will they continue to work on the divider comb or restart from a top bar?  I'm dissapointed I did this because now I can't split my hive down the road and keep two in the open bar hive and the combs, I assume, will be on more bars and much shorter.  I did intend to replace the wooden bottom with a screen down the road.  When I do that the comb covered divder should fall out. Is it too late to put another divider in?  All these headaches (and a few stings) bc I didn't remove my empty queen cage!

[beyondthesidewalks]

Do you have any straight pieces of comb?  If you place an empty bar between two bars of straight drawn comb the bees should draw it down straight.  As they continue to build straight comb you can move the piece that you don't want further away from the nest.  Once it has no brood in it you can remove the divider and then start again, probably getting rid of that divider and making a new one.  If it's just cardboard that shouldn't be hard or expensive to do.  From my experience, if there's a trace of comb on the cardboard divider, bees will attempt to complete it again.

While I am not a top bar enthusiast, I do use foundationless frames.  We have the same issues with foundationless frames.  Bees will do what bees will do.  Being a beekeeper is managing those issues, working within the will of the bees, to achieve your end.  Even in Langstroth hives with frames and foundation, we get burr and brace comb.  It is something for you to manage.  Welcome to being a beekeeper.  Hope you don't mind the few stings and REALLY enjoy keeping bees.

[Rurification]

I just checked my new hives yesterday [foundationless] and found that one of them had made a nice comb where I didn't want it.   I cut it out and put it in a frame where I wanted it with rubber bands to hold it in.   Works great.   The bees will get the hint. 

For a top bar repair, I've seen someone take a girl's hairclip - the kind with the teeth that close together- and tie it teeth pointed away from the bar, under the bar with zip ties [or string or whatever you have].   He placed it in the center of the bar and then clipped the burr/cut comb in it.  Held great and the bees built it right in.   When there was plenty of new comb surrounding the clip and attaching it to the bar, he went back in, clipped the zip ties, cut around the hair clip and removed it.  Save it for next time.   [Pretty sure the vid was from learningbeekeeping.com]

Good luck!  I'm sure it will work out.

[joydivision]

I just checked my new hives yesterday [foundationless] and found that one of them had made a nice comb where I didn't want it.   I cut it out and put it in a frame where I wanted it with rubber bands to hold it in.   Works great.   The bees will get the hint.  

For a top bar repair, I've seen someone take a girl's hairclip - the kind with the teeth that close together- and tie it teeth pointed away from the bar, under the bar with zip ties [or string or whatever you have].   He placed it in the center of the bar and then clipped the burr/cut comb in it.  Held great and the bees built it right in.   When there was plenty of new comb surrounding the clip and attaching it to the bar, he went back in, clipped the zip ties, cut around the hair clip and removed it.  Save it for next time.   [Pretty sure the vid was from learningbeekeeping.com]

Good luck!  I'm sure it will work out.

I got stung messing w the cage and my hand has balooned up. So im not going back to the hive untill the swelling goes down and I have proper outerwear.  It may be too late.

[nietssemaj]

I got stung messing w the cage and my hand has balooned up. So im not going back to the hive untill the swelling goes down and I have proper outerwear.  It may be too late.

Playtex living gloves. I've watched the bee's try and sting me through them and they can't.  As for too late? It's not like the bee's are steel workers. Fix it later it isn't the end of the world.

[FRAMEshift]

joy, I'm hypersensitive to bee venom and used to swell up and have systemic effects (trouble breathing).  I took allergy shots and now I have only minor swelling right at the site of the sting and no systemic effects.  If you want to be a beekeeper for a long period of time, it is worth getting shots.

[beyondthesidewalks]

Hello joydivision,  (BTW I like the band that was and is your namesake).  It's only too late if you give up.  Some anti-inflammatory drugs, ironically enough, cause hyper local reactions to bee stings.  Also, a local reaction to a bee sting is very normal.  When you start having trouble breathing it's too late.  You can always come back another day and get the queen cage.

[joydivision]

Thanks for the encouraging words and advice!   Latex gloves, allergy shots, and not giving up, I will follow all of the above.  I went to the clinic to get my "fat hand" checked and they gave me two types of meds and a sling to keep above my chest.   They told me to come back in if the swelling hadn't reduced in three days. I think its all a little over dramatic personally.  I refuse to take the antibiotics.