Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => HONEYBEE REMOVAL => Topic started by: kedgel on October 18, 2009, 09:07:05 pm
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I just added my info to the bee removal map. I have been doing removals just as a public service and to get freebees. I figured if it costs to remove bees people would just kill them rather than cough up $ to remove them. I mean, what does a can of Raid cost? 4$? There is an outfit down here that charges mega buck$ to do a removal, but they are hardcore, full-time with massive amounts of equipment. I don't want a full-time gig (as the French in MP's Holy Grail said, "I've already got one!" :), and I don't want to buy or rent a hydraulic lift, etc. I have gotten way more calls than I had equipment and inclination to do, but if folks are willing to pay, heck, I NEVER turn down money! I could afford to buy more equipment if they threw some cash my way. What's the going price?
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i do mine for free for all the reasons you stated and because i can take or refuse a job....just because. the last couple of years i have made it know that i'd take donations to the gas tank. people are pretty good at shoving cash in my hand. :-) they probably already priced the removals or exterminators! i pretty much stick to outbuildings, shops, swarms, and stay away from homes. i do them with the understanding that i will do the removal and clean out, but they will do the repairs. that's a fine deal so far.
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I hate doing removals for free. I lose 3/4 of a day from running my company doing a removal and my time is quite valuable. I'll do freebie charity cases, like old folks or single mom's down on their luck. Otherwise, I want $200 for a 3 hour job for extracting from a wall or soffit. $300 for 4-6 hours for more difficult removals. Picking up swarms or water meter hives I'll do for free or gas money.
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A partial answer to my own question came tonight. A lady that I did a cut out for a month or so ago emailed me back and said the bees never left or else a new swarm moved back in. She was very apologetic and offered to pay me even though I refused payment last time. She told me she had been quoted $400 by a "professional" bee removal company. I don't know if that was an exterminator or what, but she felt ashamed to ask me to do another $400 job again for free. This was a slam-dunk cut out. Down low in a wall that she didn't mind if I trashed it to get them out. I can't imagine what the other guys would quote if it were a tough one!
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I think that you should charge about as much as you would if you were going to do it full time to make a living. You have expenses - at least your vehicle - and you are investing your time. Those who are willing to pay at all usually don't mind paying a fair price for a service. I would speculate that it would be hard to make a living off of "free" bees.
What you do is a service that people need and want done - they want to have someone to call. If you don't make anything from it sooner or later you will stop doing it and they won't have anyone to call. Whereas if you make enough profit that you are happy to get those calls you will be more likely to keep doing it and your customers will continue to benefit from your service.
Don't you hate it when a business that you've come to rely on goes out and leaves you high and dry?
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My fees are based upon how bad they want them removed or their ability to pay. I charge good for some and do some for free.
Steve
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My fees are based upon how bad they want them removed or their ability to pay. I charge good for some and do some for free.
Steve
I agree totaly, there are plenty of bees around to be relocated and removed and if you pass on a couple so be it.
Kedgel, what do you charge to go and look at a "I know for sure they are honey bees", 30 minute drive later and you tell them they are yellow jackets, hornets or wasps. After a few of those you will at least want your gas money back, let alone the two hours or more of your time you lost out on.
If you are going to charge by the hour just make it high enough to cover the extra time to load and unload your truck, make up a brood box, set up of the removed hive once you get home, and clean up of your equipment. The home owner is only going to want to pay you for the time spent at their house.
Just some thoughts.
G3
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I charge a higher fee for the 1st hour and lower for additional hours. I keep this fee below the commercial full time guys but enough to pay for expenses and some time. If my son helps me, I charge for him as well.
I agree with G3 that you don't want to forget the time of preparation and getting the hive the final location. Most people think it should be free since we are getting something but I am up front about this misnomer.
I definately miss some because I charge as there are others that don't but my time & equipment is just too valuable to do it for free.
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After you've done a dozen or so you get a pretty good idea of what is appropriate. Like any business entity you need to be competitive for your area so find out what the going rate is in your area with and without repairs. If you can offer repairs as well you will get more business.
...JP
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I'll probably have a very differing view as opposed to others on here. How much should a bee removal cost? Well, it depends . . .
First of all, whatever you are going to charge, keep in mind that you are getting something out of it: a colony. Sometimes they make it, sometimes they don't, but that really is neither here nor there. You are receiving a colony. The going rate for packages is $85-110 around here, and nucs are $100-145, depending on genetics. So just by showing up, getting the bees, and leaving you are up $85-145 in value.
Equipment wise, sure you can add some of the cost of what you are going to use, but it's really yours. If you are using a $150 bee vac, a hack saw, or whatnot, you get to walk away with them, and most of the equipment you can reuse. So say that you are actually 'using' $20 worth of equipment. That means you are leaving with $65-125 in value. Next would be gas. For me I wouldn't be willing to travel longer than an hours drive, which would probably cost me an additional $30 in gas, so end value is $35-95.
The rest of it depends on the individual. If you have to take off work, you should be compensated. If you are doing it on time off, or you are unemployed, or you don't have anything going on that day, I don't think you should take that into account. I'm still a student, my time isn't worth much. So I don't add that into the mix, as long as they are being flexible in allowing me to come at my next class break, instead of being like "I need you to come ASAP", that's different.
Taking a look at the end value, if you could walk away from a job getting paid $35-95 for an hours work, would you do it? I would. How about two hours? Three? That's probably about where I would draw the line. If it's going to take a while, I would charge. But if it's just like two hours, I wouldn't. But hey, that's me.
As far as charging $400, that's really a matter of supply and demand. If you are charging $200 and your schedule is so backed up that you can't get everyone done, then upping it is fine in my book. But again, to me it depends on the person, and the job.
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Well that is one way of looking ot at it I guess. Just keep in mind that you are also providing a service to someone as well and the "free bees" are just a byproduct so to speak. You are also basing it on the fact that the bees will make it. I say go for it and do some free removals, but after a while you will get real tired of no or low money for your time and start charging.
Not trying to bust your bubble at all, I have done many free cut outs, but then again I do enjoy it, I am a glutton for punishment I guess.
G3
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Why, certainly, I would be glad to give anyone a few hours of my time.
However, I will not spend 30 plus years studying bees, their habits, how to tend to them, and the structural aspects of decades of home building, electrical, plumbing, ETC. and give all that 30 plus years of knowledge away. No more than a doctor, lawyer, plumber, or other professional. If you carry no knowledge of bees or structures with you on a cut out, then by all means do it for free.
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I would like to put forth an idea related to software.
"Open Source Beekeeping"
The open and free sharing of knowledge and experience in regards to working with Honey Bees.
While the traditional model of buying and selling honey bees and the activities surrounding beekeeping has been the status quo for well over a century, there comes a group of people who prefer to give and take freely of their knowledge, experience and time in regards to working with honey bees and the community around them.
For OSBK's (Open Source Bee Keepers) the payment and the price is in the moment, the experience itself. The opportunity to help someone else find their way into the world of bee keeping and not walk into it alone. To contribute something to the community around them that enables them to do something they love to do, work with honey bees.
This doesn't compete or mitigate the "traditional" bee keepers day to day activities or interactions. It doesn't have to be 'forced' on anyone. It is simply a choice made by individuals who value sharing and open standards and experiences. Much like the people who join the peace corps or participate in a Habitat for Humanity project.
:-D
gotta admit, I started writing this as a 'tongue in cheek' kinda thing, but dang, it describes me to a T.
Anyone else want to start a new 'Open Source Bee Keeping" movement? LOL
Big Bear
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If that was in response to my post, I agree 100%, but that is for other beeks and wannabe beeks. Not to the everyday home owner that just wants them gone. They can pay for my knowledge and experience.
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Cue Carly Simon..." You're so vain, you probably think this post is about you, don't you, don't you..."
J/K
No, I just posted in general response to the thread topic. No one post in particular.
But, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea.
Although, because I believe in being neighborly, and I am getting some bees out of the deal, I personally still wouldn't charge "Joe Neighbor" whether they were into working with bees or not. I'm just that kind of bear I guess.
( Mind you, I do NOT do the 'handyman' work of opening up a wall or repair, they need to hire someone to do that, I am just there to clear out the bees.)
Big Bear
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Why, certainly, I would be glad to give anyone a few hours of my time.
However, I will not spend 30 plus years studying bees, their habits, how to tend to them, and the structural aspects of decades of home building, electrical, plumbing, ETC. and give all that 30 plus years of knowledge away. No more than a doctor, lawyer, plumber, or other professional. If you carry no knowledge of bees or structures with you on a cut out, then by all means do it for free.
No disrespect intended Iddee, but I don't think I view the subject the same. You certainly have a vast amount of knowledge in the area, and that is very valuable. But to use that experience to overcharge an individual is just wrong in my book (I'm not claiming that you are overcharging, I'm just talking in general). I'm not against charging, but to charge $400 for a simple, two hour removal is ridiculous. My father is a very talented electrician with 30 years experience, and he doesn't get paid anywhere near $250 an hour, even for house calls ($400 fee plus $100 colony / 2hours).
I also think holding your services on the level of a lawyer or a doctor isn't quite accurate. Not that removals can't be challenging, or that they don't require a vast amount of experience and knowledge (which they do). But most doctors and lawyers charge so much because they have $300,000 in student loans, $100,000 in equipment costs, and then rent payments on top of that. If the average removal is done by an amateur (a person who has another steady form of income), the rent payments can be removed. While beekeepers do need formal (as well as practical) education, probably not the cost of $300,000. And while equipment costs are involved, not nearly $100,000 (as far as the removal equipment goes). So with less expensive 'start up costs' come less expensive services, or at least they should be.
I'm not saying everyone should be doing them for free, but from an analytical standpoint, I don't think it's proper to take a day off of work where you get paid $25 an hour, then complain about how it costs you to do a removal so you are charging $150 an hour for your services. That is simply exploiting the situation. Yes you are providing a service to people, but in actuality you are removing an unwanted pest. The person is already in a worse position by being stung, having their walls cut open, and spending their own time off work to deal with this, I feel adding a large bill to it isn't right.
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Now, even as an OSBK, I can see charging under certain circumstances.
For example.
a farmer cut down some trees on his land. I bump into him at a cafe somewhere, it just so happens, I have a fireplace.
he puts a sign up, says 'free firewood, load it yourself"
Darn tootin, I go out there with my truck and tools, cut the wood down to more manageable pieces and load it into my truck. We both get something, like a trade. I wanted wood, I got wood. He wanted it gone, it got gone. End of story, we all happy.
Next example, a farmer has trees in his property he wants gone, but if I want them, I need to cut them down.
Well now. As it so happens, I'm a part time lumberjack from my college summers. I tell him I will cut those trees down for him and since I am going to keep the wood, I'll do the cutting for say X price, which may be 25 or 50% off what I would charge him If I just did the work.
In the case of bees, if someone else is doing the repair work to the structure and all I'm doing is getting the bees out, we all happy.
If I am doing the repair work as well, he will pay for the handyman part of the work.
That's the way I could see charging for it, me , myself and I that is.
but hey, I'm a bear, so take it as you want. LOL
Big Bear
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Not real sure why doctors and lawyers charge so much in the firsgt place, open the phone book and there are page after page of them listed. Now look up bee keepers, bet you don't find any. It is kind of a specialty market. I am on another forum "Ridgid" who specializes in pipe trades, plumbing and drain cleaning tools. Some of the drain cleaners are wading in human crap to clean out a line, they don't make anywhere what a doctor or lawyer is making, have a small investment in tools and truck and education, but what is it worth to you. Joe home owner could always take care of the problem themselves, go down to the rental store and get a snake, but who wants to get poo on their hands, even if it is yours. Labor is worth what the market will bear.
Knowledge is power! as long as it is not abused...........hhmmmmm doctors and lawyers come to mind real quick.
OK rant over.
G3
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I often get paid for what I know, not what I do.
Steve
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OK, Let's compare apples to apples. I have turned down jobs because I was skeptical of the home owner. I have never turned down a removal because of difficulty, time, distance, or danger. I have removed from the roof corner of a four story hotel, from above the drive up window of a bank, from the police dept. in Africanized territory, just to name a few. Is there anyone else here who can say the same and still does not charge?
If not, I guess we are talking about two entirely different subjects.
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Settle down dude, you win. you da bestest at macho bee removal.
We're all just comparing thoughts here. it's all good.
big Bear
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I'm settled, Bear.
The smoke you think you see from Ne. all the way to NC is just fog, not real smoke from my ears. :lau:
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Sure, you are getting "free" bees and saving a beehive is nice and all, but I think that splitting a hive is "free" bees too and you can do that in the comfort of your own yard AND have it done in 15 minutes. These are bees we're talking about, we're not rescuing angels :roll:.
3 hours of hot sweaty sticky work for something that there are only a few people that will do it? Charge! Start out with what it is worth to you, most businesses will pay $200+ without blinking to get rid of the pesky bees.
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You Da man Iddee, my hero brother. I like when folks can talk, shoot the ...hoops...and walk away to drink another drink together later. it's more fun.
Scads...they're not angels? are you sure? they have wings, they make the "nectar of the gods" and by golly, they make good things in the world grow. some might indeed call those little angels.
But hey, I'm just a bear, all I really know is what part of the woods I'm in. ;)
Big Bear
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Charge! Start out with what it is worth to you, most businesses will pay $200+ without blinking to get rid of the pesky bees.
I think we have differing views of what basis to charge for. You can either:
1. Charge whatever the largest amount is that you can get away with, i.e. whatever the 'market' for bee removal is; or
2. Charge whatever it is worth to you, i.e. slightly more than what it is worth for you NOT to go
I'm not saying which one of these is correct, it depends on the person and their views. But to me, if getting paid a colony + $150 isn't enough, but getting paid a colony + $160 is enough, you should be charging $160, and not more. To ask for more than what it is worth to you exhausts the resources of others in an unnecessary manner. If you say "they are willing to pay you $400, so why not take it?" because if they knew you were willing to do it for $160 they would have offered it, and you would have accepted it. Not knowing what the rate to pay a plumber is, and not wanting to insult them by offering them too little doesn't mean you should have to pay twice what the plumber thinks is a fair value just because you don't know any better.
But if you want to go with reasoning number one, who am I to say you are wrong. That is the way the entire capitalist system works. But then again, the capitalist system crashes every now and then . . . mainly because people become overly greedy.
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OK, let's say you charge the 160. Then you have 8 more calls that are yellow jackets, don't take your offer, have sprayed the bees, or some other thing that stops you from getting the job. Do you take those trips as a loss, or do you add them to the 160 on the next job and charge 250?
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I think asking the right question on the phone before the trip will solve most of the problems.
1. Agree that they are indeed honey bees over the phone, have them email you pics. Agree that if you come out to look and they turn out not to be honey bees, or they have been sprayed with poison they owe you for a trip charge, say $25.00.
2. Agree that if scaffolding or a lift is needed that they can pick up that bill also (this summer I got a bee tree that was at 85 feet in the air, home owner wanted me to have the bees and rented a crane and man basket). Let them pay the bill so that there is not any mark up on equipment rental.
3. Let them know you are charging for the removal and agree on some kind of round about figure or hourly rate.
4. Discuss what type of building the bees are in (brick, block, stucco, wood siding, tree, barrel, etc.) and whether or not repairs will be made.
5. Now load up and go look at getting the bees
There are many things to consider. I will go 20 to 25 miles to pick up a swarm that is low to the ground (25' or lower).
G3
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Some questions for specialkayme. Have you ever performed a cut out, if so how many? Tell us about your experience in this field. What have you charged if anything?
...JP
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here is a dandy I found a while back, kind of explains it better...............................................
That reminds me about the old Texan who had been trying to retire for years. He'd been working as a engineer in the industrial machining field for 40 years had seen all the generations of machinery come and go, had a hand in creating some of them.
He was bored with it all and wanted to quit working for somebody else so he decided when the opportunity was right he would just quit and become a consultant.
A few months later he quit his job and relaxed, starting playing golf and decided he was liking this retirement thing.
One day he got a frantic phone call from a company that was having problems with their manufacturing line. One of their most important machines was down and it was costing them $2000 an hour for every hour it was down.
He negotiated a deal to come out and look at it. $5000 up front, 1st class ticket and pay his expenses and he could be on a plane that afternoon and be on the line by midnight that night.
The panicked executive agreed, just crying get this thing up and running, we don't have anybody here who has been able to figure this thing out and we need this thing running!
To make a long story short the engineer/consultant shows up at the plant, sniffs around the machine for a few hours and narrows down the problem. The executive says, "Well, what do we need to do?". The savvy old man says, it's gonna cost you $30,000 and I can have the machine up and running by 11:00 am next morning.
The executive says, done. The old engineer makes a phone call and gets a $200.00 part over nighted to the factory on schedule for a 9:00am delivery the next day.
By 10:30 the old engineer has the line up and running and he goes to the executives office to collect his check.
The executive is angry, he says, $^*? All this took was a $200 part? We thought something drastic was wrong with the machine, how can you accept a $30,000.00 pay check for 1 nights worth of work?
The savvy old engineer hands him his invoice and says, don't worry, I broke it all out for you on my invoice so it would all make sense to you.
The executive looks at the invoice, it says
Parts $200.00
Knowledge to know which one was broken $29,800.00
The executive wrote him the check.
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JP I know you are the cut out KING, but just wondering how many yellow jacket call do you get to go on?
G3
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JP I know you are the cut out KING, but just wondering how many yellow jacket call do you get to go on?
G3
This year was very active on the yellow jacket front, I removed 3 YJ colonies, I mean eradicated for clarity sakes, I don't save YJs. Usually 1 or 2 YJ colonies per year is average for me.
...JP
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Some questions for specialkayme. Have you ever performed a cut out, if so how many? Tell us about your experience in this field. What have you charged if anything?
...JP
I have not performed a cut out of a home, or any other building. I hope no one was implying that I had. I am not saying that I wouldn't, or that I would do it for free, but I have never been called, or been asked by anyone to do a cut out.
I have done swarm retrievals, which I do not charge for, permitting that it's a reasonable drive away. But I think most people don't charge for swarm removals, from what I can tell.
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Scads...they're not angels? are you sure? they have wings, they make the "nectar of the gods" and by golly, they make good things in the world grow. some might indeed call those little angels.
But do angels cause sore, red, itchy, sometimes very large, welts?? You could go way the other way and say that they are "fallen angels" and we all know what those are :evil:.
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But to me, if getting paid a colony + $150 isn't enough, but getting paid a colony + $160 is enough, you should be charging $160, and not more.
See, that is where the logic breaks down somewhat. To a newbee who needs bees, then it makes sense, and I haven't charged for the few cutouts that I've done, but I've never done a cutout if I didn't need the bees. In that I agree with you, and that is why I said to charge what you are comfortable with. Plus, that "free" hive is weakened, disoriented, discouraged, and likely queenless, so it isn't like you are gaining a full productive hive, but a weak hive that has a good chance of being ravaged by moths and beetles and will need a lot of personalized attention for a while.
But for most of the people that regularly do cutouts, they don't need the bees. In fact most of them are given away from what I read of the few that do it a lot.
That was my point...I can get a "free" hive much much easier by doing a split, so that doesn't factor into the price. The money has to be high enough and the cutout easy enough to get over my dislike of cutouts, so its approaching $3700 by now :-D.
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But do angels cause sore, red, itchy, sometimes very large, welts??
I don't know. I'll tell you if I ever find out.
Plus, that "free" hive is weakened, disoriented, discouraged, and likely queenless, so it isn't like you are gaining a full productive hive, but a weak hive that has a good chance of being ravaged by moths and beetles and will need a lot of personalized attention for a while.
But in a sense, a package or a swarm is really a weakened hive. So why would you take a swarm that needs help and attention for free, but not a cutout?
But for most of the people that regularly do cutouts, they don't need the bees. In fact most of them are given away from what I read of the few that do it a lot.
There is a big difference between "need" and "want". I have never met a beekeeper that "needs" another hive, but I have also never met a beekeeper that wouldn't take, or doesn't necessarily "want" another hive. Even a commercial beekeeper with 8,000 hives would probably take another one, or 'want' it.
But if a person is doing a cut out, and they don't even want the hive, and are likely to give it away later, why do it? Instead of spending two hours of work to get something that you don't even want, why not just use a can of raid? Or better yet, have the owner of the house use a can of raid? If you claim it's "for the good of the girls," then you shouldn't have a problem doing it for free (or at cost).
So the entire mentality breaks down. If a person doing a removal doesn't 'need' the hive, and most of the time doesn't 'want' the hive, only to give it away later, there must be an alternative motive to do a cut out. Either it's for the good of the bees (to which point you should be inclined to do it for free) or you are doing it for the good of the homeowner (to which point you should be motivated to do it at the lowest cost possible, again, for the good of the homeowner). If you don't fall into any of those categories, you are just looking for a paycheck, and if that's the case why not pass it off to a beekeeper that actually want's the hive?
Regardless of motives, just ask yourself, does greed play a role in measuring your price? If you would be willing to do it for a lower price, then greed must take a role.
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JP I totaly forgot the business you are in also, what I meant was honeybee calls that turned out to be yellow jackets.
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specialhayme, do you mind if I ask what you do for a living? If you are wanting to do something good for the home owner at the lowest possible price, then COME ON DOWN to the farm, I have plenty of fence row that needs cleaned out :-D :-D
Just pulling your chain a little.
Next spring find a local beek and help them do a cut out or two, you will find out real quick it is not all fun and games. Most of the time it is hot dirty work with lots of clean up in the end, and then repairs to be made. That is just to get out of the home owners face.
Good luck and I look forward to your first cut out come spring, and if you can't find any come down to see me.
G3
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>>>>Instead of spending two hours of work to get something that you don't even want, why not just use a can of raid?<<<<
#1, it is against the law in NC.
#2, It would leave an unknown amount of honey in the house to make a terrible mess and attract other pests. The goal is to rid the house of pests, not replace one with many.
#3, The last cut out I did, I left home at 10:00 AM, 4 of us worked until 5:30 PM. I gave the bees away.
Where do you get the 2 hours from? I don't think I have ever had a 2 hour cut out.
Why do I do it? Because it needs to be done.
Why do I charge? Because charging for a service is the American way.
PS. I am retiring from cut outs. Next year I will take newbies out and teach them how. You are close enough to make the trip. You are invited. In fact, after the first three, I will pay you 100.00 for each one you do with me, and that is using my equip. and supplies. I'll be waiting to hear from you.
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i find doing a few each year to be kind of fun. they are all different with different challenges. most of mine are outbuildings and i have gotten some nice hives. i have also gotten some duds. i have met some really nice people, and never found it to be a waste of time. i don't charge, but i take donations to the gas tank.
take iddee up on his offer. i'd go learn from him in a heartbeat if i were close. you will learn some new skills, and you will learn more about bees from a few cutouts than you'll get from books, movies, or keeping boxes of bees in the backyard.
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specialhayme, do you mind if I ask what you do for a living?
Law school student. In that respect, I guess I don't really make a living (?) at least I don't get paid to do anything . . . yet at least.
I know it's hard work, and I'm not suggesting that it isn't. I'm also not claiming that you shouldn't charge something, but I think you should be interested in charging the VALUE of the work that you do, and not necessarily what you CAN charge. That's all I was suggesting. But I think I'm kinda beating a dead horse, so I'll let my point go, I think I made it by now.
Iddee, I look forward to doing cut outs with you this spring. Still have my contact information? Or would you like me to call you?
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I will be starting a contact list in Feb. Contact me anytime in Feb. and update your info. Then I will call you when I am doing one.
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I will be starting a contact list in Feb. Contact me anytime in Feb. and update your info. Then I will call you when I am doing one.
sounds good to me
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how do you determine the "value of work"? there are two ways. 1. someone can determine that value for you or 2. the market can determine that value.
when you do start working, you'll probably find that you like 2 better than 1 most of the time. there are always those occasions when you think your work is worth more than the market will pay :-D
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The cost of a cutout?...Hmmmm.....
How old are you?
Reason I'm asking is that I'm 52, and not in shape or as flexible as I used to be..I mean, just holding a box up to a limb and shaking bees out is work to me! And 250 lbs hitting the ground from only 5 to 10 feet off a ladder HURTS!
I've done one cutout in 3 years but have caught several swarms. I wouldnt do a cutout for less than 500 $!...Now, if youre younger than me, and stronger, I suppose you could do it for a lot less.
Doing a cutout has to be one of the hardest, dirtiest tasks that I know of..Everything is sticky...You smoke till you choke...Sweat pours into your eyes to where they burn all day after you've finished the job..Then you'll be wondering if youre gonna drop from the heat with no notice!
Honestly, I dont know how JP can do as many as he does!...His wife must have lots of bills!!!
Now....If its a friend who has bee problems...One good turn deserves another :) ( but I'd try to find somebody else to do it and act dumb!)
your friend,
john
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Specialkayme, take Iddee up on his offer and educate yourself on performing removals. I believe every beekeeper should perform at least a few, you never know when this knowledge will come in handy. All of my hives are from removals and swarms collected from within 60 miles or so from where I live. True feral colonies are the best bee stock around IMO.
...JP
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Specialkayme, take Iddee up on his offer and educate yourself on performing removals. I believe every beekeeper should perform at least a few, you never know when this knowledge will come in handy. All of my hives are from removals and swarms collected from within 60 miles or so from where I live. True feral colonies are the best bee stock around IMO.
...JP
Thanks for the advice JP, I certainly will take him up on the offer. I look forward to learning alot about removals and possibly trap outs, from the trap out master.
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Simpley compare your time doing removals to what you are currently making a living at, consider all the time it takes to do a removal from start to finish. Consider how many make it and how many dont. Then figure in about 6 to 12 calls a year of honeybees that are actually yellow jackets, about 4 to 6 calls where once you get there the customer askes what you are going to pay him for the bees and of course he wants the honey crushed and strained and deleivred him. Do the math and see just how cheap you come in. If you dont like those numbers,,, go do em for free for as long as you can. We will still be there to service those thats want it when your through.
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Dang that sounded hostile..... but it was honestly meant to be just common sense based.
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i got rid of almost all my yellowjacket calls by asking them to email me a picture of the bees they wanted removed. the only time this didn't work was when a lady went out and took a picture of a honeybee on a flower instead of a yellowjacket flying out of the nest in the ground :-)
in my area, there are only two of us who do removals. the guy has been around for a long time and charges a lot. i do not begrudge him the money, but i know that a lot of folks don't have a spare 500+ dollars for a removal and will reach for the bug spray. this is especially true on the smaller farms. they end up with a mess, the hive is ruined, and they still have to pay someone to remove it.
i still enjoy doing it. i don't need the money. don't want a business and only do a few a year. you are welcome to those i leave behind. ;)
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specialkme
i started doing cutouts for free to get bees when i was building up my stocks.
after 2 or 3 i decided that if i was going to spend a full day working with stinging insects that i have to
remove from a wall and spend most of the day doing my best to get a viable hive i was not gonna do it for free. it is hot sticky sweaty and sometimes painfull work.
if it takes me 2 or 3 days to get a removal done then i spend the time and get it done.
i never raise my fee after the deal is done!
i tell my clients the average costs of removals, drive out and give them a quote, let them decide.
i dont think you would do many for free after doing 5 or so free removals in the summertime!
as jp said, go help iddee do 3 removals next summer and then get back with us on charging $400
being too much.
bailey
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I am not now, nor have I ever said that everyone needs to do them for free. I don't understand why everyone thinks I'm suggesting this. All I have suggested is the cost of removal should be determined from a subjective view depending on the individual and what they are giving up to do the removal then discounting what (if anything) they are getting as a result, rather than an objective view on what the market is willing to give you.
Once again, I understand that it is hard work, and I am not suggesting that anyone should do them for free if you don't want to.
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heck, a plumber will charge you 400 dollars to come fix your plumbing. he'll work for less than an hour and smile as you write the check!
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hate to tell him that i have seen hives that i wouldnt touch for less than $3000.
jp has seen the one i am talking about.
bailey
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Yep, certain removals can be unbelievably taxing on the body and spirit. Any hive can be removed but some practically take an act of God to get there.
My removals average 4-5 hrs but I've done some that took three days to complete. My pick of the litter is one inside of a vertical space, a wall, say with exterior wood sheets of some type, either going in from the interior or exterior.
I don't like honey dripping down on me, so my least favorite are overhead removals.
Some of my most difficult removals involved removing bricks and taking complete bathrooms apart to get to a hive.
As Bailey pointed out, hard to put a price on some. Some may even make a man or woman go insane, at least temporarily!
...JP
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>>>>Some may even make a man or woman go insane, at least temporarily!<<<<
JP, my friend, that is a requirement to do the second one. ;) :-D
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>>>>Some may even make a man or woman go insane, at least temporarily!<<<<
JP, my friend, that is a requirement to do the second one. ;) :-D
Yep, its a good kind of insanity though. ;)
Hey Iddee, everyone on here always talks about how sweet you are. Must be all those overhead removals! :-D
...JP
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>>>>Hey Iddee, everyone on here always talks about how sweet you are. Must be all those overhead removals!<<<<
Nope, it's because everyone made that second removal. They're all insane. :roll: :-D
It's all a prerequisite to beekeeping. :cheer: :idunno: :idunno:
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Specialalkyme,
I understand what you are saying, and for me there are much easier and probably cheaper ways of getting bees. The price is very subjective, to me it is subject to how much I want to go out and do a cutout, which is not very much at all(my wanting to do a cutout, not the price!). I think you'll understand after a few, even if you got Iddee to show you the ropes.
And with most people if I tell them how much that it will cost to get me out there, they'd rather try to kill the hive and cut out the comb themselves, I would if I were not a beekeeper.
Problem nowadays is that people think that they are being so wonderful and charitable by offering you the wonderful chance to save these bees that are almost extinct :roll:. Even after they've sprayed and bombed the hive.... :roll: Actually did get that call last week...second week of november and they've been trying to get these bees out of their chimney all summer, spray, bug bombs, and here it is almost winter and they call me for advice because the bees are a bother, and, well they're bees so it would be nice to save them, oh, and they don't want to call the exterminator. I just told them to call the exterminator since the bees are as good as dead anyway. :thunder: If they're gonna be stupid they might as well pay for it.
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As stated earlier, I am not in a situation where I see a reason to charge, so I don't.
That said, I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with charging for the service either. If the market will bear it and you need/want the income, give it a shot.
IF, I were to charge for a service like that though, say, if I had a full time bee related business as my main source of income, I could see charging an hourly rate at about the same of an exterminator, as it is a relatively similar business ( except, I am not killing the bees, just placing them in a 'bee protection program, heh heh).
Yet again, I clarify, that is only to remove the bees and related work. If they want me to do the handyman work related to opening up the siding, drywall, etc.. and repairing it too, that would cost more.
Big Bear