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BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: backyard warrior on January 17, 2011, 09:21:25 pm

Title: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 17, 2011, 09:21:25 pm
I checked my hives today out of three i lost one and another doesnt look good. The bees ate all their stores and i had two deeps and two mediums on them.  They had plenty of stores but couldnt break cluster to get to it from all this cold weather im guessing there is going to be lots of loses this year due to this cold snap that wont quit.  I opened my hives and moved frames of honey around the clusters. Im glad i ordered packages this year i think im going to requeen with northern queens this year see what happens heads up bjorn  :)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AllenF on January 17, 2011, 09:25:48 pm
How big were the frozen/ starved cluster left in the hives?  Low numbers could not heat the box.  Why did you leave the meds on?  Bad cold still coming.   Winter ain't over.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 17, 2011, 09:27:38 pm
Lots of bees laying on the bottom boards. lots of bees with heads in cells and no honey around the clusters
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: slacker361 on January 17, 2011, 09:29:30 pm
did you have any bee cozy's on them or any kind of insulation at all?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 17, 2011, 09:32:07 pm
no i didnt wrap the hives with anything.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 17, 2011, 09:53:54 pm
I have mixed emotions on wrapping hives. I can understand that they conserve honey by being warmer but also i have read that they have moisture problems with wrapped hives. Id like to hear some feedback from the northern beeks that winter hives successfully what do they do ??
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AllenF on January 17, 2011, 09:59:28 pm
Leaving the 2 honey supers on top may have been to much space for the bees to warm themselves.  Wrapping does save a lot of food stores.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 17, 2011, 10:14:51 pm
I understand what you are saying Allen. My question is when you get lots of hives up here in the north i dont think it would be economical for a beek with lots of hives to wrap them all im leaning toward bees that can live threw winter under conditions as in the wild.  I really dont want to tie up lots of money in hive wraps.  There is lots to learn  as i can see there is lots of scenerios between the mites and cold weather and all the other problems that can unfold through out the winter.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Yuleluder on January 17, 2011, 10:30:40 pm
I don't wrap any of my colonies and from what I understand the bees only heat the cluster and not the entire cavity.  That being said a small cluster will not be able generate enough heat to survive some of these cold nights. 

Last weekend I went through 80% of my yards and found all of them doing pretty well.  One yard I did lose 4 out of 12 but 3 of those were late season combines, the other was caught in a bad spot and couldn't break cluster and starved with honey in the box above them.  All other yards had either 1 loss or no losses and these are yards of at least 20 colonies.  Most colonies have SBB's.  I will run one final check the first weekend of Feb, before my stimulative feeding regime starts in March.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: slacker361 on January 17, 2011, 10:44:15 pm
you just got be scared now, just got done making a candy board, the bees will be dining in class tomorrow
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 17, 2011, 10:48:45 pm
Sounds good Lucas thats what i was thinking that they heat the cluster only but i suppose less boxes would keep some heat in the hives. The hives really dont have any r value so you would think if heat was a big issue we would be using insulated hives ??? My hives starved not being able to break cluster i think that was my biggest problem. Its been really cold and its been staying cold these bees were packages from down south so maybe thats the reason  although they didnt have any brood to keep warm ???
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Yuleluder on January 17, 2011, 11:00:36 pm
backyard warrior,

Did you get that last email from me?  The one about possibly having a bee yard for you up near beltsville lake?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: FRAMEshift on January 17, 2011, 11:12:58 pm
  All other yards had either 1 loss or no losses and these are yards of at least 20 colonies.  Most colonies have SBB's. 
Are you saying your SBBs are open?  Do you leave them open all winter?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Yuleluder on January 17, 2011, 11:20:57 pm
Are you saying your SBBs are open?  Do you leave them open all winter?

Yes the SBB's are all open.  I even have some single deeps with open SBB's.  The only colonies without open SBB's are my 2 and 3 five frame deep high nucs.  The rest I run SBB's on.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: jhs494 on January 17, 2011, 11:48:36 pm
We wrap all our hives, close off the sceened bottom board, and install entrance reducers. We use the 15# builders felt with two straps around them to hold it in place.

Of the eleven that are wrapped three only have two mediums high on them.
These we checked with the stethoscope to locate how high up the cluster was.
We used the mountain camp method of emergency feeding on all three hives.
Hive one and two still had the clusters down in the lower brood box.
We still added the newspaper and put dry sugar over the clusters.

Hive three the cluster was already at the hand hold in the inner cover.

We placed the paper over the cluster, gently trying to get them below the tops of the frames.
We added a gallon of dry white sugar to each hive over the paper, added another medium above and closed them up.

 
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 18, 2011, 12:12:10 am
Sorry i havent gotten back to you i was in the middle of changing jobs and all.  I am def interested in that bee yard let me know the info.  MY # is 570 527 0863
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 18, 2011, 12:28:15 am
Yuleluder id like to buy a few queens from u this summer !!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Be a Bee on January 18, 2011, 12:36:33 am
I have mixed emotions on wrapping hives.

2000 feet up in the Shuswap, BC, I insulate with 2.25" insualtion around the two supers. Also above the inner lid sits an empty super with insulation in it, but not air tight and the lid on an agle to allow moisture to escape. I also have a top entrance about 1/2 inch wide only, for cleansing flights. I do this for 30 years and in our region have no moisture problems but save a lot of feed. We get -30 degree C a couple of times during winter, duration about 4 to 7 days. This winter was milder, -20 only. You find more about me on the net.
Werner Gysi
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 18, 2011, 07:44:29 am
I don't wrap my hives any more.  Feel it caused to many moisture problems.  I use SBB and top entrances, only one Hive w/ SBB is now wide open.  I do place 2 inch rigid insulation on tops of all my hives.  I've lost two small colonies (caught swarms) so far this winter and take responsibility for failing to dump or combine them.  They were too weak, lesson learned.

I agree with Be a Bee, this hasn't been a very cold winter for us northern beeks "yet."  Our regional weather issues affecting bees began with a very warm November, causing bees to feed on stores they should be eating right now.  I did feed all of my hives dry sugar before closing them up.  Waiting now for a day above freezing to check and feed, it may be awhile I'm afraid.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: HomeBru on January 18, 2011, 12:23:25 pm
Just checked ours yesterday. No noise, lots of dead bees just inside the excluder so I took a peek. No signs of life. Started out strong going into the winter, the cluster was nearly busting at the seams with two full mediums of honey/stored sugar water on top (no late flow so fed heavy all fall). This is the end of our second year trying bees and we haven't made it through a winter yet. I'm not sure we'll go for a third year with nucs and packages up to and over $100 each! Our honey harvest has been about $250/quart so far...

Frustrating.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: garys520 on January 18, 2011, 12:49:49 pm
I had two of my hives run out of stores last year, so this season I gave them a little extra sugar water this fall, plus I loaded them with fondant.  It's cheap insurance vs. $90 a package.  I've been using Bee Cozys for a couple of years and love them.  I just make sure the top of the insulation doesn't block the top ventilation.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: ronwhite3030 on January 18, 2011, 05:01:29 pm
Home bru did you say you were leaving your excluders on during the winter? if you are take them off.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bassman1977 on January 18, 2011, 06:32:15 pm
I've tried a number of different ways for wintering a hive in PA.  My best success came when I have had 3 mediums (or equivalent), full hive of course, solid or closed SBBs, mouse guards, and the inner cover cracked the width of the fat part of a door/window shim.  Last year I tried keeping an extra box or two of honey on top of the original 3 mediums I normally winter with, just to see what happened...those 3 hives died.  The only one that survived was the one wintered as I mentioned above.  Any other year, no issues due to the weather.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 18, 2011, 10:09:45 pm
Home bru u must remove your queen excluder in the winter that way if the bees have to move the cluster to get to the food the queen isnt left behind to die  ;)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: greenbtree on January 19, 2011, 10:25:18 am
So far my hives seem to still be humming along.  I stuck womping big candy boards with rigid insulation on top of them on all my hives going into Winter.  Solid base boards (haven't got around to making my SBBs yet :-D) with reducer/mouse guards.  Even the one where the mouse guard got misplaced and a mouse got in still has a nice healthy sounding hum going.

JC
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: HomeBru on January 19, 2011, 12:27:49 pm
I don't own a queen excluder.

quote author=backyard warrior link=topic=31169.msg252198#msg252198 date=1295402985]
Home bru u must remove your queen excluder in the winter that way if the bees have to move the cluster to get to the food the queen isnt left behind to die  ;)
[/quote]
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 19, 2011, 06:29:48 pm
Ok just checking because you said that you did on your other post before this one about losing your hives
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Dr. B in Wisconsin on January 19, 2011, 08:12:47 pm
I checked out my bees the other day and they looked and sounded OK. I screwed some of the 2 inch insulation board on 3 sides. I hope they are as sung as a bug in a rug this weekend, I just heard on the local news that the wind chill will be down to minus 40 F
For any of you babies down south you can not believe what minus 40 F feels like. The worst I went through when I was younger was minus 75 F wind chill you could not even walk across the street.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Michael Bush on January 19, 2011, 09:15:57 pm
You don't need to wake them up or open the hive.  Just lift the back of it and see how heavy it is...
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 19, 2011, 09:35:25 pm
I think tomorrow i will wrap the hives with insulation bats for the weekend till the intense cold snap is over
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 19, 2011, 11:35:08 pm
Doctor B, I hear ya!  I can recall a super cold winter week back in the 80s when I was in school in Ann Arbor when we had a spell of -70F wind chill.  I guess that we before we had global warming....

We’re still fairly balmy here with single digit lows.  I'm sure the bees probably don’t need it, but I’ve got my hives super insulated with 2” foam on ALL sides  :-D
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Yuleluder on January 20, 2011, 02:02:43 am
I think tomorrow i will wrap the hives with insulation bats for the weekend till the intense cold snap is over

I think you need more hives  :-D
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 20, 2011, 08:01:55 am
You don't need to wake them up or open the hive.  Just lift the back of it and see how heavy it is...

And............if its light..............and we shouldn't open because its too cold.............??????? 

This is my current dilema.........What do you suggest under this circumstance Michael?

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 20, 2011, 10:59:29 am
.
You may take the inner cover off and look, do you see capped food in the upper part of frames, and does the hive has capped food in boath sides of the box. -10C is not too cold to look.

I checked my hives today because winter feeding was too late. Something lazy job in autumn.

If i cannot see capped food. I take capped frames from my frame sorage or the whole box of capped honey and put it over the cluster.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 20, 2011, 11:24:36 am
Finski, I don't know about that, we've got minus 2 degrees (F) right now.  I think thats too cold.  I've been waiting for a day above or at least close to freezing (32F) before checking inside.  And that won't happen (unless we're lucky) for another month or more.

Someone should invent a way to feed bees without opening up their house :)

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: HomeBru on January 20, 2011, 11:43:38 am
Ok just checking because you said that you did on your other post before this one about losing your hives

OOPS! Just re-read my first post, I meant REDUCER, not excluder, my mistake...
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 20, 2011, 12:36:56 pm
I checked out my bees the other day and they looked and sounded OK. I screwed some of the 2 inch insulation board on 3 sides. I hope they are as sung as a bug in a rug this weekend, I just heard on the local news that the wind chill will be down to minus 40 F
For any of you babies down south you can not believe what minus 40 F feels like. The worst I went through when I was younger was minus 75 F wind chill you could not even walk across the street.
Yeah cold temps PLUS wind stink.  Hard for anything not living below ground to stay warm.  By averages though, this has been a mild winter for us, so far.  During a normal winter in N/W Wisconsin there is usually one (or two) two week periods of minus 20-25 (-31C) nights and days "staying" well below zero, that's not including wind chill).  Today its still a couple degrees below zero, but we'll get above it in a bit, and its still too cold to check on bees "inside."  With February fast aproaching we may get through winter with some firewood and propane to spare for next season :)  But I'm not so sure about my bees.  We've had very strange weather lately, especially the last season.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 20, 2011, 01:42:06 pm
Finski, I don

Someone should invent a way to feed bees without opening up their house :)

thomas

bees need not feeding in winter when you feed hives full in autumn.


Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Yuleluder on January 20, 2011, 01:52:20 pm

bees need not feeding in winter when you feed hives full in autumn.


Well said!  Put the time in during August and September and all should be well into the spring.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 20, 2011, 02:38:15 pm
Personally, I don't take any honey in August or after, leave it all for the bees, I take mine in the Spring when the dandelions come on.

Our/my bees issues began with a very warm November with NOTHING for bees but their own stores, so I fed like crazy and have lost two hives already and may have another after we get hit with some serious weather tonite.

Don't mean to offend anyone but some of the above advise is meaningless to the circumstances my bees are currently facing.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 20, 2011, 04:28:25 pm
@T Beek in Badger land

Most humans seem to be adamant against providing any heat for the bees.  “Cold doesn’t kill bees”.  I would say forget the humans and give your bees what they really need right now…HEAT!  If your bees are on their last leg, why not give them enough heat so they can find their stores?  They also eat less when they’re warm.  Heat has worked great for me and it’s cheaper than sugar.

How much heat?  That depends on the insulation value of your hive.  If it’s wood and if you’re below 0F, my guess is a 50 watt heater would be a good place to start.  You might need even more.  In an emergency situation, you might try a frozen pipe heater from Home Depot or a hardware store.  I use heat for my little nucs, but they are in foam boxes, so I have not tried a frozen pipe heater.  Foam boxes only need 5 to 15 watts to stay warm.   
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Trot on January 20, 2011, 04:41:51 pm
T Beek,
make a candy board, lift the inner cover off and put candy board right over the top brood chamber.  Make sure that the candy board box/frame has in the bottom - front side cut out a notch for ventilation and a way out for bees when they want to go for a dump in warmer weather...

Good luck,

Regards,
Trot
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 20, 2011, 04:42:41 pm
BlueBee :?Actually, artificial heat fools bees into thinking its warmer than it really is, causing them to venture out on days they normally wouldn't, along with many other potential issues.  

And in reality they consume MORE when its warm and  LESS during extreme cold, especially when compared to say just hovering around freezing.  

Humans are responsible for killing more bees than anything else shy of an asteroide. :( Cold doesn't kill bees, people do.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 20, 2011, 04:46:16 pm
T Beek,
make a candy board, lift the inner cover off and put candy board right over the top brood chamber.  Make sure that the candy board box/frame has in the bottom - front side cut out a notch for ventilation and a way out for bees when they want to go for a dump in warmer weather...

Good luck,

Regards,
Trot
Thanks Trot, I'd foloow your suggestion, but 6 above zero is just plain to cold to open them up right now, next week back up into the 20's, maybe then, but I don't like going inside unless its at least 35, sunny and NO WIND.  Thanks again.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 20, 2011, 05:03:12 pm
@T Beek

I wasn’t suggesting you warm your bees up to 90F in the winter :-D 

I might pose a physics question to you though.  Do you have to burn more energy to heat your home when it is 0F outside or when it is 40F outside?   

If the bees in a cluster are trying to maintain the core of the cluster in the 90s, are you suggesting they somehow burn less energy (honey stores) when it is 0F outside than when it is 32F outside? 
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 20, 2011, 05:06:39 pm
.
After 48 years beekeeping my hive wintering goes its own course.  i do not try anything new. It is simple.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 20, 2011, 05:13:51 pm
I would follow Finski if you have a full strong hive!!!! 

However, my understanding was T Beek’s hive might be on its leg, hence my suggestion for a little tender loving care.  I guess TLC must be limited to cats and dogs though  :shock:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Trot on January 20, 2011, 05:17:29 pm
I know what you are saying T Beek, but, I thought they are starving?

You seem to be worried about what is in store, weather wise, tonight?
If no time for candy board (that should be nice and warm and when put on the hive the bees will be warm) lay on top of frames some paper and pour on a few bags of dry sugar - that too can make a difference in a pinch...

I don't even go close to mine in winter. Never mind opening them.  I make sure that everything is done right in the Fall and than I don't look at them until flight time in Spring - when it is time to bring in the battery and activate the bear fance.

It is a toss of a dice, friend, let them be open to the air for 20 seconds, or let them starve to death.
Next week might be too late?
Would you wait for next week to have your next meal?

I am not trying here to convince you to do nothing, if you have no mind too.  I just hate for the bees to suffer and die when there are ways to help them at this time in the game. . .
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 20, 2011, 06:28:33 pm
Blue Bee; no, of course bees, nor humans, burn more when temps are closer to freezing, however, comparing the two is like comparing a blade of grass to a pebble :-D.  The reality is that Bees "do" consume more when temps are at freezing or above especially when compared to temps at or well below zero, when they will consume little to nothing, as they cannot/willnot move from their cluster. Please BlueBee, no offense was intended by negating your advise.  It was apreciated, just not my way, to artificially heat up my bees.  I'm serious when I say, someone should develope a way to feed without opening them up. 

Trot;  These bees "may" be starving, maybe not, my concern is that they are quieter than I'd like and while I desparately WANT TO FEED THEM RIGHT NOW, I dare not as I don't want chilled brood either.  We had exceptionally warm fall weather, causing all of my hives to consume winter stores better left for right now, and the feed I provided which they eagerly lapped up as there was nothing for them to forage on.  Thanks for your support and advise,

Finski; C'mon Man, you've not tried "anything" new in 48 years???? :roll:

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 20, 2011, 06:55:26 pm
Hey T Beek

No offense taken.  That’s the cool thing about beekeeping, there are lot of way to work them!

Maybe I’ll have to put on my thinking cap for a way to feed without opening them up.....since I’ve given up trying to perfect feeders!

Maybe we can coax Finski to help us invent?

Good Luck
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bullship on January 20, 2011, 07:23:43 pm
Bees burn the least amount of stores at 42 degrees f. Wrap to keep drafts off not heat up the hive. Need a top and a bottom hole to allow moisture out. Second windbreak also helps.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 21, 2011, 07:44:44 am
Bees burn the least amount of stores at 42 degrees f. Wrap to keep drafts off not heat up the hive. Need a top and a bottom hole to allow moisture out. Second windbreak also helps.

bullship;:roll:Welllllll, I don't think its true that bees burn the least amount of stores at 42 F.  You'll have to show me that research.  I believe that's actually a temp they will greedily lap up stores instead. A strong colony needs no wrapping as workers make certain propolis is in every nook and craney before winter.  For myself, in the past, wrapping just caused excessive moisture issues, but I'm still open to other methods, just haven't found one that works for my bees.

Well published research will tell you that the COLDER it gets, the LESS bees willl consume.  Bees will die by starvation rather than leave their brood during cold temps.

I do use both top and bottom entrances on "some" of my Langs and I agree and use wind breaks all around my hives and 2 inch rigid insulation on top..

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 21, 2011, 12:44:41 pm
Hey Thomas,

It looks below 0F there in NW Wisconsin today!  Brrrrr.  The lakes keep us a little warmer over here.  Can you tell us the color of your hives?  It looks like you might be getting some sun today.  Does the sun help warm up your hives? 

I was under the impression that people wrap their wood hives with black tar paper for two reasons.  One to keep out the wind, and two, to absorb heat from the sun on a sunny day giving the bees an opportunity to break cluster and move to new stores.  I agree with your comment about propolis, see we do agree on something!

I’m still pondering a feeding mechanism for you without opening a hive.  How about blowing some powered sugar in your hives thru the entrances/vents?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 21, 2011, 12:58:27 pm
Backyard thermeter was -29 at 5:30AM, closest town said -33.  It was cold, but its been colder and for MUCH longer than a night here and there.  I used to wrap my hives, but had problems w/ moisture, even w/ top entrances, with and w/out open, SBB.  I've tried alot of things and haven't entirely given up wrapping, just seeking another method.

Yeah, I've thought about just blowing or somehow pouring some dry sugar into the entrances, but decided against it, never saw/heard it done anywhere, and I didn't want to clog up their escape.

My hives are a combination of green, gold (more like baby poo yellow), white and natural.

I'll bet we agree on many things (and disagree too ;)

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 21, 2011, 01:19:54 pm
You’re right Thomas, we probably DO agree on more things that most since we’re all BKs at heart! 

I recall seeing a video on the web of an experimental mite treatment in which they were blowing powered sugar into a hive thru the bottom entrance.  I think it might have been out of the University of Georgia.  That was to removing mites, but maybe it could be adapted for your emergency winter feeding too?

I wonder what Finski would say?  He must have had at least 1 weak winter hive in all his years of experience  :?   

Assuming the innards of a winter hive are moist, there would be lots of places for powered sugar to stick.  You would have to assume at least some would end up sticking to the bees!  As for clogging the exit holes, maybe you just push a stick in there and clear it out when you’re done?  I don’t think this would replace winter sugar boards, but in an emergency situation it might work???

-29F is ridiculous, you definitely deserve an award for bee keeping in those conditions!!!!
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 21, 2011, 01:35:07 pm
Was just out with my stethascope, all hives still showing/giving signs of life, including the worrisome one.  Before I do anything I'll wait till next Monday or tuesday, suppose to be in mid-20s.  May just open it up and dump in the sugar and close it back up.  Shouldn't be more than 30 seconds if I can get my wife to help.

I think finski would say, "let them die."  Could be wrong about that but I think I've seen that from him around here and I agree to some extent, that old saying about bees that die, "we/they didn't want them anyway."  Sad but true sometimes.  Watching your bees die while scratching your head over the what ifs, could ofs, and should ofs will drive me nuts. 

I've learned something from each die-off experienced and will likely continue learning till I'm done with this particular adventure, although I can't imagine ever giving this up.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 21, 2011, 04:04:15 pm
I think tomorrow i will wrap the hives with insulation bats for the weekend till the intense cold snap is over

I think you need more hives  :-D

You may think i do but i know i do   :-D
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 21, 2011, 04:13:32 pm
T-Beek if i was you i would make up some fondant and take off the inner cover and give them some fondant right on the frames near the cluster why not help them if you can its been a very cold year compared to others and if i can save my bees from dying thats less i have to spend come spring thats just my two sense   :roll:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Acebird on January 21, 2011, 04:54:46 pm
I miss this one when it first came up and there sure is an active discussion…

1) felt paper has only one purpose to warm the hive.  If wind makes it through a ¾ - 7/8 thick wooden board 15# felt paper isn’t going to help.  It may hold in some moisture.  I use a roofing material and screw separate sheets on three sides with two screws form the top and let it hang.  The corners are not sealed.

2) I am troubled about the comment that the bees will consume all the stores in the fall.  It is my understanding that the hive downsizes in the fall.  First to go is the drones.  The hive doesn’t need them so they kick them out.  I would assume the queen stops laying to further reduce the hive but I am not sure.  At any rate it doesn’t make sense to me that the hive would consume all the stores knowing that they have to make it through winter.  How would a feral hive ever make it?

3) I don’t see that feeding a hive without opening it up would be that big a deal (to get the feed in).  However if they can’t break cluster to access their own honey how are they going to access the feed?  I forgot who the original poster was but I think he said they couldn’t reach their stores and starved.


Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 21, 2011, 05:27:00 pm
What happens  acebird is that when it is very cold out the bees cant break cluster and move any distance to go and get the stores elsewhere inside the hive, with that said giving them fondant on top of the cluster allows them to feed themselves until it warms up so they can either move the cluster or bring stores closer to the cluster  ;)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 21, 2011, 05:34:13 pm
backyard warrior and Acebird;  If it wasn't BELOW ZERO I'd do it right now, please go back and read the "entire post"

(doesn't everyone get perturbed repeating the same thing to those not bothering to "read")

Acebird; Most Northern beeks who've been keeping bees a while have had their bees starve with plenty of stores available during periods of extended cold.  "MY" (just mine) bees likely consumed "too" much of their stores in November when we had extended temps in the 60s and 70s (normal is 25-30F) and there was NOTHING  for them to forage on, thus, despite my efforts to feed like crazy, I've lost two colonies and may loose another if I cannot "determine" if they need stores (cant do that until it warms up some more to get a peek) and give them some feed.  

But if you'd read above, you would have found all is well with all of my hives as of today.  So, Thanks for all the advise, but I sure wish some of you would "read the threads" you're commenting on.  

It makes me wonder, Did some of you start at the beginning of this thread, the end, or the middle? :-D

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Trot on January 21, 2011, 05:52:08 pm
Minus 29 F is just nice weather to go skating.  :-D

On the serious note:  Last winter we had minus 40 C and lower, for about 3 weeks straight.  Man, water pipes that were not 12 feet deep or had too much traffic over them were freezing up and busting!  The lowest temp in those 3 weeks was minus 46 C, which stood for about 3 days, or so.  Minus 46 C is about - what?  54, 56 below F ?  I could be wrong - but not by much...

Bees? 
Never lost one hive. 
Tonight is going down below 40 again.  :(
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: slacker361 on January 21, 2011, 05:54:21 pm
holy crap...... you guys need to move further south    :-D
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Course Bee on January 21, 2011, 05:57:23 pm
Then who would supply the awesome Northern honey slacker?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 21, 2011, 05:58:49 pm
Trot; I don't think its supposed to be a compitition is it? :? the weather , that is ;)

slacker; I wouldn't live anywhere else, we've got some of the cleanest fresh water on the planet.  In fact I've thought of relocating a bit more north :)

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 21, 2011, 06:21:00 pm
T beek i read the whole thread all i am saying is if it were me i would open them no matter how cold to give them the food if i was concenered about their stores and starvation.  One day can mean a live hive or a dead hive   ;)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 21, 2011, 06:23:58 pm
@T Beek and Trot

You guys seriously have to start selling queens.  Any bees that can survive your conditions with minimal intervention are worth their weight in gold! 

T Beek, I read your every word!
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 21, 2011, 06:31:46 pm
@T Beek and Trot

You guys seriously have to start selling queens.  Any bees that can survive your conditions with minimal intervention are worth their weight in gold!  

T Beek, I read your every word!

 8-)LOCAL BEES RULE 8-)  i'm not interested in selling bees, just want to keep them alive and raise my own, that's the goal.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Trot on January 21, 2011, 07:33:55 pm
T Beek,
You got that right.  Without local bees it is next to impossible.  Everybody should strive to raise one's own bees, cause no two locales are the same.  And like people, bees too are diferent.
About the North?  I hear you T Beek...  North has its own charm that can not be had nowhere else.

About selling queens?
I gave up commercial outfit with coming of Varroa and TM.  Since than, I moved a few hives in total wilderness where I had build a summer house with my own two hands, alone, by the lake.  Nothing is in sight for miles and miles.  Have only a few hives to keep me company.  With our winters, bears and constant building - I have my hands full from about April and up to the end of November. 
I hail from old land of Carniola, Slovenia todaj, on sunny side of the Alps.  There is the land of Carniolan bees, Lipizzaner horses and best beekeepers in the world.  Without bees I probably wouldn't last as long as I have and I plan to keep them for a spell yet, thank God of-course...
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Acebird on January 21, 2011, 07:40:17 pm
Quote
very cold out the bees cant break cluster and move any distance to go and get the stores elsewhere inside the hive, with that said giving them fondant on top of the cluster allows them to feed themselves until it warms


How would you get the fondant on top of the cluster from the outside?  There is no way to predict where the cluster is going to go over the winter season so automatically feeding them from the outside is not possible.  I suppose you could strategically place about 6 hypo needles into the hive in different places and then use thermography to locate the cluster to know which feeding tube to use.

I could be totally wrong but my feeling about feeding is it screws up the bees and makes them dependant on you.  If they are left on their own they should be smart enough to survive the winter or die.  Survival of the fittest.  Propagate the smart ones instead of keeping the dumb ones alive.

Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: skatesailor on January 21, 2011, 07:46:31 pm
BlueBee :?Actually, artificial heat fools bees into thinking its warmer than it really is, causing them to venture out on days they normally wouldn't, along with many other potential issues.  



thomas
Case in point, I have my hives stored in my cattle trailor with a light canvas cover. Outside temp today was mid 20's and there were a few bees in the snow outside the trailor. Undertakers were also working.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 21, 2011, 10:40:05 pm
Acebird i understand your point of view by all means im with what you are saying survival of the fittest then breeding from your best hives.  Alot of it depends on how much honey the beekeeper took in the fall and how much of a flow they had to build up stores so it doesnt neccesarily mean that the bees are suburb alot has to do with how cheap the beekeeper is with his bees or negligent.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 21, 2011, 10:44:41 pm
what i mean by that is does the beekeeper feed the bees if they need it does he do the right things in fall to have a healthy hive ???
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 22, 2011, 07:31:25 am
Yeah, well I DON"T take "any" honey from August on and I'll feed when neccessary "if" temps will allow me to get inside.

Before closing them up for the winter they all get 10# of dry sugar.

I take majority of "my" honey once danelions have begun blooming in Spring.

 :roll:Bees aren't dumb or stupid, only people can hold that title ;).

Although I'm not interested in selling bees or queens I would like to get a trade network of Northrn Beeks going in order to trade bees and queens, just a pipe dream I've had for some time now.

Trot;  Sounds like your living my dream, man.  When the family and I settled in N/W Wisconsin nearly 30 years ago, it was like what you've got now I suppose, with "no power or water", we built our cabin (slept in a VW bus pop-up w/ wife and two kids for about 7 months), raised our kids, planted gardens, hunted, fished etccc.  Raised a variety of livestock.

Now the kids are gone and its just me and my girl and our critters, but I noticed about 10-12 years ago it began getting crowded, nearby lakes that were empty of any human activity for eons suddunly had several (part time) houses (mansions) on them and once the power company came through and hooked us up after all those years I began thinking "we gotta get outa here."  Now I'm getting to old to move, almost :)

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 22, 2011, 09:11:22 am
T- Beek i know bjorn has the northern breed queens association and he talks about just what you said about beeks trading queens throughout the north to get good traits and genetic stock from feasible overwintered queens.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 22, 2011, 09:30:12 am
Yep, I know, and there's one in Wisconsin :). We must be supportive of these kinds of efforts.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 22, 2011, 11:23:29 am
.

I do not understand that complex thinking above.
I feed the hives enough in September and next time I
try the hive weight in the middle of Marsh.
If some dies, it dies.

I live 100 miles away and hives are under snow and ice.
I cannot do nothing to them.  but usually all are alive when we meet in Mash.

Wintering needs experience on the area where you are.
Things happen and mistakes teach. End of colony is not end of world.
What ever domestic animals you keep or pets, allways some die.

Of course if you have one hive, it is not odd if you loose 100 of your hives.

.




Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Acebird on January 22, 2011, 11:26:08 am
Quote
Bees aren't dumb or stupid, only people can hold that title


Starving to death when there is food just a few inches away doesn't sound to bright in my book.  As a group they can't leave the brood but one at a time they could kind of like the rotation they do to keep the cluster warm.

Who is to say that we are not screwing up their plan or their survival instincts by digging into the hive or feeding when they already have food.

Anybody feed birds?  If you feed birds you better not stop or let the feeder go empty for a day or two because they have become dependant on the feeder.  If you don't feed birds they will fend for themselves but once fed, they are dependant on you.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 22, 2011, 11:44:22 am
Acebird; You're speaking and thinking like a human being ;).

Honeybees wouldn't be living in either of our parts of the world, if WE didn't bring them here to begin with. 

Your "preconceived" assumptions and very human approach won't keep bees alive for long, I'm afraid.  Not if you think some of them are stupid just because they don't conform to your way of thinking/behaving. 

Comparing "wild" birds (who have considerably more access to feed) to honeybees that are "forced to live where we put them" is just ridicules.  You're proving my point for me, ya know.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 22, 2011, 11:55:13 am
Quote
Bees aren't dumb or stupid, only people can hold that title


Starving to death when there is food just a few inches away doesn't sound to bright in my book. 

Who is to say that we are not screwing up their plan or their survival instincts by digging into the hive or feeding when they already have food.

Anybody feed birds? 

i can say with my 48 years beekeeping experience that bees do not know how much they have food and where it is. They have no plan to survive over winter.

I can say too, that beginners know all because they know so few.

When I started it took from me 7 years that no big surprises arose any more.

Now my problems are due my lazyness. I am not earger anymore to do in time what I should to do.


Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 22, 2011, 12:05:42 pm
Finski; you are da MAN!! 

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 22, 2011, 12:14:29 pm
Finski; you are da MAN!!  

thomas


 Actually grand da....

I started beekeeping at the age of 15.
It is my fault that get every year 2 years older when I read these forums.

Before I die I may be menthally 120 years old.
First things what i like to forget along my age are top bar and small cells and a sentence " listen the bees"
.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 22, 2011, 01:20:01 pm
But.....I'm always listening to my bees as you can see if you look close at my post picture, and they speak volumes.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 22, 2011, 01:44:37 pm
But.....I'm always listening to my bees as you can see if you look close at my post picture, and they speak volumes.

thomas

sounds bad, really bad....old age comes not alone.


Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 22, 2011, 01:54:52 pm
 :piano:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 22, 2011, 02:23:03 pm
@AceBird and T-Beek

I think the data backs up AceBirds assertion that bees aren’t too smart.  According to researchers in Germany, the volume of a bee brain is about 14um cubed in total.  According to Wikipedia, an adult male brain is about 1260cm cubed.  Converting that into cubic um, we find the human brain has a volume of 1.26x10+15 um cubed.  That is 9x10+13 bigger than a bee brain.

You see, we have to potential to be much smarter than a bee  :-D

Here’s a link to the German bee brain paper, an interesting read.
http://www.insectscience.org/4.7/Haddad_et_al_JIS_4_7_2004.pdf (http://www.insectscience.org/4.7/Haddad_et_al_JIS_4_7_2004.pdf)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 22, 2011, 02:55:11 pm
Maybe after we've been around for 60 million years (as the bees have) perhaps we can talk about that :roll:

It all sounds like typical human arrogance to me.

Bees would likely do remarkably well without humans (and have), can humans say the same?  I think not my friends.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: FRAMEshift on January 22, 2011, 03:07:09 pm
Each bee has 1 million neurons.  So  a hive of  100,000 bees have altogether 100 billion neurons.  Which by a happy coincidence is exactly the number of neurons in the human brain.  So a large hive, taken as a superorganism, has the same brain power as .... well.... some of us.  :-D
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 22, 2011, 03:30:27 pm
..
I think that earth worms have lived on eart or inside longer than the bee. So it must be smarter than bee.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 22, 2011, 04:19:52 pm
without the bees we would all be bored and have alot less food to eat  :)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 22, 2011, 04:26:20 pm
I agree with Acebird, I’ve seen my bees do some pretty dumb things; no matter how many years they've been around!

When a hive of 100,000 can out think Isaac Newton, Einstein, or Niels Bohr, then I will be impressed!
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 22, 2011, 05:08:19 pm
without the bees we would all be bored and have alot less food to eat  :)

how is that? America had no bees and indians had enough food.
What about wind pollintion and self pollination and snail, bath, bird etc pollination?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Scadsobees on January 22, 2011, 05:50:45 pm
I always find it humorous when people aren't willing to do a small thing like put food on a bee hive to save it.

90% of the time when they truly starve it is our fault.  Or just reallyreally really cold.

You can blame the bees or accept that while you want them to thrive, they are still in your boxes relying on your goodwill doing work for you.  If we took that attitude about everything we'd all starve.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Trot on January 22, 2011, 09:23:34 pm
I should add here that bees had been around for 150 million years!
 
(Latest research involving the last bee found, perfectly preserved in amber and if memory serves me right?  It was found in California.) 
Previous  proven estimate was about 120 milion years.

That is longer than any creature known to inhabit this globe.
They say that they managed to stay on this earth, all this time, largely the same way as we know them how they exist today.  That being so, is, because of their incredible smarts, work ethics, dedication to their collective... 
By our standards they are regarded as an incredibly well thought out and proven society - collective. . . 
In my country of origin, they are regarded, spoken off, on the same level as humans and they die as humans.  Other animals, the word for their death is diferent than for humans and bees.  English language is not nearly as colourful and rich as languages of other country's and nations.
In many a country, even to this day, they are regarded as being better than humans and harming them is punishable by death!   Yes - death!

About bee smarts:
Bees are today, by scientists, classified as the smartest beings on the planet.  (Man is next. Used to be first though.)
 
They can navigate without mechanical or electronic aid.
They poses very complex language skills.
They can foretell the weather, without help of computers or other gizmo's.
They navigate by sun, moon and/or stars alone.
They can navigate under darkest clouds and fog, without any aid.
They can tell colours/smells that human or other mammals can not.
They can measure, very accurately, without any aid at all.  (short distances)
They can measure, long distances, within the accuracy of a foot or two.
They can comunicate in more ways than one. 
They can tell and recognize human faces.  Not only one on one, but from pictures also.
They can recognize YOU - their keeper.  (Can you recognize them?  For being yours?)

There is much more, but I will stop now and I hope that  those in doubt will get the drift?

Sadly, some people keep singling them out, so they can tear them down with better success?  :roll:
I suspect they regard them as being stupid, not too smart, cause they stay with them?   :) ;) :-D
Bees are studied in that regard (for smartness) as a whole hive!  They only function best, as they do - as a hive, collectively that is. . .

One more thing:
An old "swamp person" from the Bayou of Louisiana, not too long ago, said to a person/scientist from the National Geographic:  "Mista, you best shut you mouth now!  You mabe book smart, but you ain't no common sense smart!  Here mista, common sense means - if you live, or you die."

And also this one fits in here:
It is not the size that matters, it is what you do with it!


Regards,
Trot
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 10:08:22 am
I should add here that bees had been around for 150 million years!
 
(Latest research involving the last bee found, perfectly preserved in amber and if memory serves me right?  It was found in California.) 
Previous  proven estimate was about 120 milion years.

That is longer than any creature known to inhabit this globe.

Regards,
Trot

Wake up, wake up Trot. It is only nightmare!

Bees are the biggest insect group on earth. 20 000 different species.

Apis mellifera is one lowsy bug amoung others. It has never been in California before that when human brought it couple of hundreds years ago.

Honey bee was developed in Africa. Africa and South Ameriva continent devided long ago and there are many relative animals on boath continent like camel and lama. But honeybee is not among those animals.

so we see that Apis mellifera is a youn creature. Its 3 relatives are in East Asia. It tells that probably the origin of Apis family is in east.

They can navigate without mechanical or electronic aid so do all animals

They poses very complex language skills. -  all social creatures have communication system, complex or simple.

They can foretell the weather, without help of computers or other gizmo's. No animal have computers

They navigate by sun, moon and/or stars alone. so do other animals too

They can navigate under darkest clouds and fog, without any aid. what ?

They can tell colours/smells that human or other mammals can not.  so do many others animals. Bees have not radar like bats

They can measure, very accurately, without any aid at all.  (short distances) how do you know


They can measure, long distances, within the accuracy of a foot or two. how do you know?

They can comunicate in more ways than one.  above you have mentioned at least hundred ways

They can tell and recognize human faces. hah hah...



I suppose that earthworm can do same things.

Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 23, 2011, 10:25:38 am
I do believe the comparisons were between humans and bees Finski, not any "other" animals, your age is showing Old man :-D

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 11:42:05 am
I do believe the comparisons were between humans and bees Finski, not any "other" animals, your age is showing Old man :-D

thomas
Does it helps if I am again 15 years. The comparision would not be better.

Bees have not computers....reason is my age....

You must have short of jokes. I tell one because a human is clever

-  How do you get rif off dog poo on your lawn?

- make a fatty bouillon and pour it on the poo. Next dog comes and eates it.

Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 11:46:39 am
I do believe the comparisons were between humans and bees Finski, not any "other" animals, your age is showing Old man :-D

thomas

You know I am a master in science in biology. Don't teach old duc to swim.

One thing is missing fromt trots catalogue: bees could make computers if they would need them.

If they are really clever, they woud phone and buy a flying ticket and move to south for winter.

.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wd on January 23, 2011, 11:54:23 am
I do believe the comparisons were between humans and bees Finski, not any "other" animals, your age is showing Old man :-D

thomas
Does it helps if I am again 15 years. The comparision would not be better.

Bees have not computers....reason is my age....

You must have short of jokes. I tell one because a human is clever

-  How do you get rif off dog poo on your lawn?

- make a fatty bouillon and pour it on the poo. Next dog comes and eates it.




That's exactly why I don't let dogs do the lick human thing
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 23, 2011, 11:55:39 am
BlueBee and Finski are thinking like brothers today.  I agree 100% with Finski

As for T Beek and Trots "smart" bees, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if they’re moving little bits of U235 they’ve collected over the summer into a critical mass nuclear pile to keep warm  :-D
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Acebird on January 23, 2011, 12:02:41 pm
Quote
Honeybees wouldn't be living in either of our parts of the world, if WE didn't bring them here to begin with. 


Do you also believe that if humans did not intervene in the honey bees life that they would go extinct in the north country?  Feral bees as we know them would die off and only live in the south?

How did the Willy mammoth ever make it to the Arctic circle without our help?

It appears that even those that have kept bees for 50 years have colony failures.  Is that because they still have something to learn and won't?  Is it because they have been doing the same thing for 50 years and are resistant to change?

I would like to know more on the subject that bees store food in their hive and then come winter they forgot where they put it.  How would you prove such a thing?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 12:09:10 pm

It appears that even those that have kept bees for 50 years have colony failures.  

And those who have driven car 50 years have collisions.  It happens to those who act...
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 12:15:29 pm

I would like to know more on the subject that bees store food in their hive and then come winter they forgot where they put it.  How would you prove such a thing?

I have lost many hives this way. The cluster starts to winter in upper box. They move up and die when food is finish.  They do not know that in the first box they have 20 kg food.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Acebird on January 23, 2011, 12:36:30 pm
Quote
I have lost many hives this way. The cluster starts to winter in upper box. They move up and die when food is finish.  They do not know that in the first box they have 20 kg food.
 
 
Shouldn't the food be in the upper box not the lower box?  Why did you (they) have 20kg of food in the  lower box?  Is it something you did previously that changed their normal habits?
 
 
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: slacker361 on January 23, 2011, 12:42:55 pm
Well if my girls survive I will have three hives come the spring. WOOHOO if not I will have two woohoo
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 01:36:43 pm

Shouldn't the food be in the upper box not the lower box?  Why did you (they) have 20kg of food in the  lower box?  Is it something you did previously that changed their normal habits?
 

I have nursed bees 48 years. Many things have happened.  When I have 2 box hive, I put brood frames down before feeding. Bees fill the low box first because they brood are there. They they fill the upper box.

Frames must be full, otherwise bees do not cap the food.

When I say that I feed sugar on average 20 kg per hive, some have less and some more.
Bees have honey too in hives before feeding.

If I say something, it is mostly regular, because hives are quite individual what they do. It is not common that cluster eates  first food from upper box.


My aim is not over winter 100% alive. It is imposible. If some die and I  do not cry for them.
20% losses during winter and spring are normal to me.
So I have 20% spare hives as insuarance.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 23, 2011, 02:00:54 pm
The Russian bees do so well with mites because in Russia they didnt have the money or means to give treatments and the strong colonies learned to manage the mites and the weak died. Now the Russian bees are very resistent to mites because of this if we were smart we would let our bees do the same but we have such a shortage nobody wants to do that so the best scenario is to bring the resistant bees here and breed them into our honey bees.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Kathyp on January 23, 2011, 02:13:28 pm
Quote
I would like to know more on the subject that bees store food in their hive and then come winter they forgot where they put it.  How would you prove such a thing?

by keeping bees long enough to observe their behavior.  or....you might take the word of those with many years of experience until you have enough of your own. 
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 23, 2011, 03:19:50 pm
ditto that kathyp :)  It amazes me how many first or second year experts have popped up recently :roll:

"the only experts are the bees."  If you aren't listening, you aren't learning.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 03:35:00 pm

"the only experts are the bees."  If you aren't listening, you aren't learning.

thomas

Thomas, don't loose your hope.  Sun will shine some day into branch heap!
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Kathyp on January 23, 2011, 04:09:28 pm
questions are important.  i hope none of us think we have all the answers.  that's a quick road to failure.  however, it's important for new beekeepers to recognize that they have 100's of years of combined knowledge here and that the knowledge came from doing. 
i would not expect that anyone would take a gospel any answers they get here. 
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Acebird on January 23, 2011, 04:16:24 pm
Quote
or....you might take the word of those with many years of experience until you have enough of your own.


And who would that be?  It doesn’t take long (just read though this one post) to see conflicting views on almost every subject from people that have many years experience keeping bees.  I can now see where the phrase “this is what I do” is very appropriate when speaking with other beeks.  At first I thought it was a very unusual phrase coming from those that have done it for quite some time.

I want to hear comments like this one because it makes perfect sense to me.  I could care less if the person has two years experience or leaned it on their own or from someone that had 50 years experience.

Quote
The Russian bees do so well with mites because in Russia they didnt have the money or means to give treatments and the strong colonies learned to manage the mites and the weak died. Now the Russian bees are very resistent to mites because of this if we were smart we would let our bees do the same

Finski wrote:
Quote
It is not common that cluster eates first food from upper box.
If it is not common than why would you want to save this hive and propagate its genetics?  It makes more sense to me to propagate the colonies that do well through the winter for what ever reason.  Once they figure it out, I don’t have to.

Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Kathyp on January 23, 2011, 04:29:25 pm
Quote
If it is not common than why would you want to save this hive and propagate its genetics?  It makes more sense to me to propagate the colonies that do well through the winter for what ever reason.  Once they figure it out, I don’t have to.

you are confusing your issues.  the way bees eat in winter has nothing to do with survival genetics.  it has to do with normal behavior.  this is where experience and observation come in.  bees store across the top of the brood for winter.  they eat their way UP over the course of the winter and end up in the top box or top of the box if you only use one.  this is what they do in the wild, or when we keep them.
if your honey is in the bottom because you have done some thing like swapping boxes, the bees will still move up, and they will move away from their food. 

i agree that there are many opinions and often conflicting info.  learning normal behavior helps you weed through info that is either wrong, or of no use to your circumstances.  there is no way to learn, except to do and observe.  it's another one of those things that can't be handed to you.

and guess what?  you will fail from time to time.  that's also normal.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 04:34:49 pm

 I could care less if the person has two years experience or leaned it on their own or from someone that had 50 years experience.


20 years ago I could write with 30 years experience when you just learned to ride with bicycle.


Quote
The Russian bees do so well with mites because in Russia they didnt have the money or means to give treatments and the strong colonies learned to manage the mites and the weak died. Now the Russian bees are very resistent to mites because of this if we were smart we would let our bees do the same


Russian bees die for varroa as others strains. Russian beekeepers themselves use all kind of varroa killing medicines. They do not trust "varroa resistent" bees.

Finski wrote:
Quote
It is not common that cluster eates first food from upper box.
If it is not common than why would you want to save this hive and propagate its genetics? 


I have studied genetics in university. That is why I do not breed dead bees. It is hollywood job to wake up dinosauria.
.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 04:38:32 pm
you will fail from time to time.  that's also normal.

Failing is the best teacher.

Too much failings is called "a lot of experience".
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Acebird on January 23, 2011, 05:05:40 pm
Quote
there is no way to learn, except to do and observe.  it's another one of those things that can't be handed to you.

If this were true this forum would be worthless and any book ever written about bees would be worthless.  There are many ways to learn, observation being only one of the ways.

Quote
they eat their way UP over the course of the winter and end up in the top box or top of the box if you only use one.

I was also told they would move horizontal, hence horizontal hive exist.

Quote
if your honey is in the bottom because you have done some thing like swapping boxes, the bees will still move up, and they will move away from their food.

Didn't I elude to this?  Sometimes it is hard to tell if you are arguing for or against what I say.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 23, 2011, 05:13:01 pm
 :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 05:20:50 pm

If this were true this forum would be worthless and any book ever written about bees would be worthless.  There are many ways to learn, observation being only one of the ways..

I have learned from internet a lot. When I started to surf in internet, I noticed that I have really much wrong information. Beekeeping really goes forward.

One thing is that there is no "worker queen". They are tens or hundreds. That was found in UK over 10 years ago. But still, folks shake that poor worker queen onto lawn and she cannot flye to the hive. Next day the hive has again 254 worker layers. - The old truth works...

60 years it has been known that you cannot build up colony with sugar water, but still today many is going to do it.   - If you do not know what to do to bees, feed them with sugar water!!!
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 23, 2011, 05:29:59 pm
Finski why cant u use sugar water what does it to ???
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 23, 2011, 05:36:58 pm
Finski, why did the U.S. bring bees over from Russia to Baton Rouge Lousiana to the island and isolate the bees and propagate the genetics of the russian be known as the Russian Queen Breading Association run by the U.S. food and drug administration and they have scientific proof that the russian bee is very hygenic and is the most resistant to varroa mites. I dont say things on here that i havent learned from an educated individual or scientific proof i am by no means a know it all at this far into beekeeping but i do read alot and listen to people such as yourself that have years of experience thats how you better yourself in life  no matter what you do you always listen more than you talk thats what i was taught by my parents.  :-D
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 23, 2011, 06:05:45 pm
Finski, why did the U.S. bring bees over from Russia to Baton Rouge Lousiana to the island and isolate the bees and propagate the genetics of the russian be known as the Russian Queen Breading Association run by the U.S. food and drug administration and they have scientific proof that the russian bee is very hygenic and is the most resistant to varroa mites. I dont say things on here that i havent learned from an educated individual or scientific proof i am by no means a know it all at this far into beekeeping but i do read alot and listen to people such as yourself that have years of experience thats how you better yourself in life  no matter what you do you always listen more than you talk thats what i was taught by my parents.  :-D

How do I know?  Why they went to Siberia because in Nebraska desert you had better resistant bees. - I have learned...


Germany has as resistant Carniolan bees as Russian bees. They make more honey too.
Those bees were taken to New Zealand breeding project.
.

http://www.wncbees.org/docs/Reference/A%20Comparison%20of%20Russian%20and%20Italian%20Honey%20Bees.pdf (http://www.wncbees.org/docs/Reference/A%20Comparison%20of%20Russian%20and%20Italian%20Honey%20Bees.pdf)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 23, 2011, 07:32:10 pm
Thats what i was talking about i thought u said that the russian bees where no better than italians. So from what you have included in your post it would make sense to introduce Russian bees into your apairy  :idunno: :idunno:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: slacker361 on January 23, 2011, 08:04:02 pm
so........ how bout them Steelers /...........
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 23, 2011, 08:06:39 pm
looking good so far
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 23, 2011, 08:49:31 pm
i know local mutts are good but what is best is a non breed  or breed of bee that is hygenic but even so if you are going to buy bees it would be best to try to get the breed of bee that is the most hygenic im not much for treatments i want bees that can be chemical free and productive like the rest of us.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 23, 2011, 09:23:49 pm
@BY_warrior and Finski

How about you guys invent a robo bee that simply roams the combs, scans capped cells as it roams, and pokes (kills) any that are infested with mites.  I’m talking about an ELECTRONIC robo bee here.  If you stick this robo bee in there early in the season, the mite population never gets a chance to explode exponentially and the problem is solved.  Onto Cold Fusion.

I recall in another post that Finski said he recently retired.  This would be a PERFECT project to keep him busy in retirement. 
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on January 23, 2011, 10:50:01 pm
blue bee  just for you  :-D           :buttkick:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 24, 2011, 03:41:17 am
@BY_warrior and Finski


I recall in another post that Finski said he recently retired.  This would be a PERFECT project to keep him busy in retirement. 


many have suggested what idiotic things I should to do when I have nothing to do.

Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 24, 2011, 08:53:00 am
Having "nothing" to do is a luxury best left to the wealthy (for now anyway).  I'd rather be poor with lots to do, guess that's why I am ;) 

And to be honest, I'm more buzy since I retired not less.

Oh yeah, almost forgot;  GO PACKERS, GO PACKERS, GO PACKERS, GO PACKERS! 8-)

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: FRAMEshift on January 24, 2011, 11:21:45 am
Having "nothing" to do is a luxury best left to the wealthy (for now anyway).  I'd rather be poor with lots to do, guess that's why I am ;)  
thomas

"Poor and content is rich and rich enough."   Shakespeare-- Othello, Act 3, Scene 3
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 24, 2011, 11:40:15 am
.
.if you are a beekeeper, encourage your wife to continue working
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 24, 2011, 12:29:13 pm
Now how did you know that Finski :shock:  Man, can you all tell its winter, or what???

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BlueBee on January 24, 2011, 12:35:44 pm
Please excuse that non-sense about a robo bee I posted last night, I had a brain fart!  It happens!

@T Beek,

Is today finally going to be feeding day for your super girls?  I can’t wait for a report.  Watch out, they might be all excited about the Pack too?  Did anybody seriously think that Chicago, a team with half the Detroit Lions old coaching staff, would win?  Go Pack! 
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 24, 2011, 12:57:13 pm
Only a high of 10F today, looks good toward the end of the week though.  They're all still humming as of 8:30am.  One of my Langs "sounds" weak is all.  I've had weak colonies survive and thrive before (and the oposite too unfortunatly) once Spring came along.

BluBee; No need to apologise man, "its winter!!"  Why do you think I even come around here?  

Besides I talk like that every time I have a couple Ale's, makes me creative ;), but don't ask my wife.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 24, 2011, 01:21:14 pm
  They're all still humming as of 8:30am. 
thomas

leave them alone!
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 24, 2011, 01:52:06 pm
get a grip man, I use a stethascope, they don't even know I'm there. :-D

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 24, 2011, 02:25:16 pm
get a grip man, I use a stethascope, they don't even know I'm there. :-D

thomas

Put in your stetoscope so long tube that you need not come out

oooorrrrr pull your self up to this day

(http://www.verkkokauppa24.com/images/Salakuuntelulaite---kytnnllinen-87143.jpg)
.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 24, 2011, 02:29:25 pm
,
Telescience Master of Spy 9935 3-in-1 Telesonic Spy Ear Play Set
 
Our Price: $ 23.99 

(http://www.clearance.net/store/image.php?productid=45374)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Finski on January 24, 2011, 03:34:34 pm
get a grip man, I use a stethascope, they don't even know I'm there. :-D

thomas

Modern DYI remote-keep-out-off-hives-stethoscpe

(http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/gallery/mindhat.gif)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: slacker361 on January 24, 2011, 05:58:34 pm
LOL finski you crack me up  :bee:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on January 24, 2011, 06:46:15 pm
 :wierd: but :lau:
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: cmonkey on February 05, 2011, 05:54:23 pm
I don't wrap my hives any more.  Feel it caused to many moisture problems.  I use SBB and top entrances, only one Hive w/ SBB is now wide open.  I do place 2 inch rigid insulation on tops of all my hives.  I've lost two small colonies (caught swarms) so far this winter and take responsibility for failing to dump or combine them.  They were too weak, lesson learned.

I agree with Be a Bee, this hasn't been a very cold winter for us northern beeks "yet."  Our regional weather issues affecting bees began with a very warm November, causing bees to feed on stores they should be eating right now.  I did feed all of my hives dry sugar before closing them up.  Waiting now for a day above freezing to check and feed, it may be awhile I'm afraid.

thomas

I took about a 10-second peek today, and saw the clusters in both my hives in the lower deeps. A few girls hauling the dead out, but not much action other than that. I think I'm feeling postive about them being in the lower deeps. Aren't I? It's my first winter so I really don't know. I hope that they can just make it through Feb, then I can give them some patties, hope they take them, and wait for the willows and dandelions to bloom.

I'm cautiously optimistic today. Who knows how I'll feel tomorrow.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on February 05, 2011, 06:03:12 pm
Me personally i wouldnt mess with them if they arent at the top of the hive they should be ok this far along but keep an eye on them they soon will be raising brood and using up there stores in the coming months.  Once they start building up just watch out for them to start swarm cells usually after they have raised a considerable amount of drones.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: cmonkey on February 05, 2011, 06:34:09 pm

Although I'm not interested in selling bees or queens I would like to get a trade network of Northrn Beeks going in order to trade bees and queens, just a pipe dream I've had for some time now.

I'd be all over that like white on rice. I have one homegrown queen (from accidentally moving my first when I made a split  :roll:), and she seemed to be doing well last fall. We'll see in March/April, I guess. I hope to never have to buy another package, only getting local nucs from now on. I believe in the power of local genetics.

My big dream is to catch a feral swarm and pull a queen from that stock. I worry that they'd be a bit hot, but I'd be willing to take the chance.  :-D I hope there are at least feral drones. I don't know of any other beeks within 10 miles or so, so I think my odds of bringing new genetics in are pretty much down to the wild boys or finding someone local who'd sell me a queen.

Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on February 05, 2011, 07:06:56 pm
Id really like to see the northern beeks start up a northern breed program where we all could have a huge picnic up north and have one of our prize hives with our own northern breed queens with us to compete  every year.  At the picnic the bee hives would be inspected for hygenics and gentleness as well as production and a vote on the best queens for the northern area.  The best queens would be used to make queen cells that all the beeks in the group would be able to buy.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2011, 02:26:37 pm
Thunder Bay would be a nice location for such an event.  I'm all ears.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Picobrew on February 06, 2011, 05:08:03 pm
Thunder Bay would be a nice location for such an event.  I'm all ears.

thomas

I have zero experience, but would there be border issues moving bees either direction?
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on February 06, 2011, 05:19:42 pm
Hey Picobrew, glad you made it over this way.  I guess I was thinking something centrally located exclusive to northern beeks, sure don't want to have to travel south (that's where the "planners" usually plan events and then I usually don't attend ;).)  We wouldn't have to transfer bees to have some kind of meeting of minds, and I think American beeks can still get queens delivered from Canada, but that may be old data.  NAFTA changed more than we know, and not for the better.

You know, there already is such an organization in place, the Northern Queen Breeders Association (BjornBee is an associate) and there's a breeder in Wisconsin.  May have to make a road trip south though as he's near Madison.  

GO PACK GO, GO PACK GO, HOUR AND 45 TO GO B4 KICK OFF :-D

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: punkrockbeekeeper on February 22, 2011, 03:01:52 pm
Went in to winter with 4 hives. I fed them outside this hives for about 3 weeks in late August early September. I then split a 50lb block of fondant on them and wrap them with 2 layers of bubble wrap. I got a roll of bubble wrap from staples for a little under $20. I wrap my 4 hives and there was enough left to do about 20 more. I also put 1"x1/2"x1/8" thick spacers on the 4 corners of my telescoping cover which seem to add the perfect amount of air flow through the hive. There was no mold or condensation, I keep the wrap about a 1/2" down from the bottom of the top wo allow air to move through. I also found a 1'4" wide piece of 3" rigid insulation (Blue Board) and Velcro that on top of the hive. Its not as big as the hive so it leaves some of the cover uncovered. I am assuming the cold on the edges help with the air flow because of the thermal imbalance. I check last week when we had the freak 65 degree day and they all seem to be doing great. Oh yeah 2 were started from packages, one Russian the other Italian and 2 from nucs. I am in what would be consider south eastern PA but in the far north west of Philly.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: VolunteerK9 on February 22, 2011, 03:09:46 pm
Id really like to see the northern beeks start up a northern breed program where we all could have a huge picnic up north and have one of our prize hives with our own northern breed queens with us to compete  every year. 

Not sure about the picnic part, but I thought Bjorn already had something like this in place.

www.nsqba.org (http://www.nsqba.org)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on February 22, 2011, 07:12:22 pm
This is true but it would be nice if more of us including i would get more involved :)
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Humanbeeing on February 22, 2011, 07:35:34 pm
If you are worried about moisture due to wrapping your hives, why don't you just wrap the front half, that faces the south? That's what I do, and when I go out on a really cold day, and the sun is shining, it feels warm to the touch. A little warmth will go a long way in allowing the bees to move a little to new stores. I also put a solid wind break around the back and sides. I have two hives sitting out on flat, windswept land like this. They are doing just fine. I put my ear to the top entrances a few days ago, and knocked a couple times. Got a nice loud buzzzz from inside both of them. This has been a pretty cold winter here. It started out really cold for quite a while. The tar paper helps a lot. If half the hive is allowed to perspirate, and the other half to collect heat, wouldn't that be a good balance? It is for me.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: greenbtree on February 22, 2011, 08:11:58 pm
And now for something completely different...  Well, not really.  This first year beek wants to know if anyone ever gangs hives for Winter?  Thought of it when I saw a picture in the "Increase Essentials" book of a double nuc beings Wintered on top of an established hive.  If that works, would it be beneficial to put established hives wall to wall so they can share heat on the sides?  Would have to use migratory covers.  Or side to sides and back to backs in blocks?  Just curious....

JC
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: greenbtree on February 22, 2011, 08:15:41 pm
Well, Now I read the "Overwintering nucs in the North" thread and pretty much just answered my own question. :-D

JC
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on February 23, 2011, 07:30:39 am
Down to two hives (lost 3).  Hope they survive.

BjornBees association, NORTHERN STATES QUEEN BREEDERS ASSOCIATION is mentioned several times on this thread I think, for those looking :-D.  I'm uncertain of the structure of that Org.  What I'm interested in forming is more like a trade group, I give you my queens, you give me yours kind of thing.  Regional, of course.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: backyard warrior on February 23, 2011, 08:24:55 pm
I agree Thomas that would be great to mix up the genetics a bit.  Bjorn has it right about the northern breed queens. I feel we are messing with the bees way too much we need to let natural selection take place and stop treating and manipulating. chris
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on February 24, 2011, 07:22:57 am
My one long survivor colony at five years has made it this far mostly due to luck (for me and my bees).  We're all dumb beeks when starting out and I'm no exception.  I've likely killed alot of bees :'(.  With the knowledge gained (on this forum) this one colony will become 4 or more? this summer.  I've only replaced the queen once in five years, of course that doesn't mean "they" haven't ;) (see what I mean about dumb luck).  So, anyone else interested in forming a Queen Trade Association?  Lets stay w/in Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota for now (that's as far as I'm willing to drive).  Might have to create a new thread if there is REALLY an interest.  (we shal see, this isn't the first time I've tried to get some beeks "together" :-\

I can feel it girls and boys; this is the year I graduate and really become a beekeeper.

Beekeeping without a mentor (besides all of you) or a local club is hard, but reading up on Langstroths life and his turmoils (and all of yours) made it less so.  C'mon Spring.

thomas
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Robo on February 24, 2011, 09:22:17 am
I'm uncertain of the structure of that Org.

If I recall correctly,  you need a minimum of 50 hives to be a member.  Which is not an unreasonable number if you intend to produce queens to contribute.
Title: Re: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: T Beek on February 24, 2011, 10:02:01 am
You're right Robo, and honestly, I'd be willing to drive far (well, not too far, the queen has to make it back ;))to get some of those (one?) queen(s).  I've referenced it before, but I'm certain there's one of NSQBA members in Wisconsin, so the drive wouldn't be too bad if some are available and I need one.

(thanks for adding the photo tutorial, you're really on the ball ya know, now I gotta find my wife ;)

thomas