no brood found in strong hive

[BeeScout]

I'm in middle Georgia and the bees have been very active here since the end of February.

I have 5 established hives and three that I started from swarms this year.  One of the established hives is very weak, so I went into the hive to check out the brood pattern, but I could find no brood at all.  I also couldn't find the queen (but I almost never can find a queen).

I decided to take a frame of brood with newly laid eggs from the hive next to this one.  This is a very strong hive.  But when I went through it I couldn't find the first cell of brood, and didn't see the queen.  (as I said before, I always have a tough time finding the queen)

I went through the other 3 established hives (strong with lots of bees) and couldn't find any brood at all.  I know that there was brood in one of them a few weeks ago because I took a frame of it and gave it to a new swarm to help anchor them to the hive.

I checked the three new swarm hives and all of them have brood in them.

Question? - What is happening here?  What should I do?

Thank you,
Dwight Kerr (beescout)

[Kirk-o]

I have had a hard time seeing some times was there no eggs either?If you go thru those hives again and find no brood take your swars and join them with newspaper that should solve the problem if they are queenless
kirk

[asprince]

BeeScout,
I also live in middle Ga. and today discoverd that I have the same problem. I have a very strong hive. Two weeks ago today, I took two frames of brood from it to jumpstart two new hives. There was plenty of brood on all frames and they were starting to fill up the super. Today I opened the hive to check the super status and to look in on the two new frames that I put in to replace the two that I took two weeks earlier. To my surprise, there was almost no brood on any frame. I think maybe my queen is MIA. I don't know for sure since I have never been able to see her. Steve

[buzzbee]

Could your hives have swarmed and the new queen not laying yet?

I beleive swarm season is upon you in Georgia!

[asprince]

Because I am a newbee, I will not say that they did not swarm. If they did swarm, she didn't have many followers....there are are lots of bees in the hive. I did see what I thought was some small queen cells. Here is what I THINK happened. When I took the two frames of brood the queen must have been on one of them. I may have killed her when I shook and brushed off the bees. I try to handle them carefully but there are sooooo many and it is difficult not to kill a few. Other than swarming, what else could have happened?
Should I go back in and destroy the queen cells and order a new one or should I just leave them alone for a while and see what happens? Steve 

[Kirk-o]

Try Not to worruy about it to much the isssue is you need a Queen .That would be a good Idea get a good queen
kirko

[Michael Bush]

My guess is they are about to swarm or they already did.  Check for queen cells.  If you can't find any, and if you have another hive, give them a frame of eggs and open brood for insurance in case they need a queen.  Odds are they have one.  If you find a bunch of capped queen cells I'd split them several ways with a frame with at least one queen cell in each split.

[AllanJ]

BeeScout,
I also live in middle Ga. and today discoverd that I have the same problem. I have a very strong hive. Two weeks ago today, I took two frames of brood from it to jumpstart two new hives. There was plenty of brood on all frames and they were starting to fill up the super. Today I opened the hive to check the super status and to look in on the two new frames that I put in to replace the two that I took two weeks earlier. To my surprise, there was almost no brood on any frame. I think maybe my queen is MIA. I don't know for sure since I have never been able to see her. Steve

Could you have moved the queen over to the other hive when you moved those 2 frames of brood?

[Cindi]

I think that Michael has a good point.  I am pretty sure that when the bees are preparing to swarm, the queen is prevented from laying eggs, (starving her), the bees want her skinny for flight, if she was heavy she would have a more difficult time to fly.  They will resume feeding her lots when they get into the new home and she will get a big abdomen again.

That is a high likelihood why there are no eggs and larvae, they may have swarmed.  Check for the queen cells, definitely.  Best of a beautiful day.  Cindi

[asprince]

No, There were no bees on the frames. I know for sure because the new hives are miles away from my old hive and I transported them in the cab of my truck. The only bees in the truck were in the package boxes.
Michael is probaly correct, they have or are about to swarm. Does this account for the lack of brood?

Michael, When I harvested the two frames of brood and replaced them with new frames, should not this have opened up the brood nest and helped to prevent swarming? This beekeeping stuff is complicated.

Steve

[Michael Bush]

>Does this account for the lack of brood?

Yes.  One of the FINAL steps to swarming is to reduce the brood nest so that the queen can be slimmed down to fly and so the nurse bees (which will leave with the swarm) will be unemployed.

>Michael, When I harvested the two frames of brood and replaced them with new frames, should not this have opened up the brood nest and helped to prevent swarming?

That is very helpful.  But that depends on how far down the road of swarming they were when you did that.  If they had swarm cells (which you may or may not have seen) then I have not seen that stop them.  But if you can catch them before that it usually works great.

> This beekeeping stuff is complicated.

Bees are very complicated.  Keeping them is, therefore, complicated.  :)

[Kirk-o]

It gets simple as you go you learn to observe Michael Bush says if you ain't makeing mistakes you ain't learning.Keep going it will get better.What helped me is I read Michael Bush's site all the time I search out all posts he has answered and read them very helpful give it a try
kirk

[asprince]

Ok so they are about to swarm. Damage control time. I have no more hives with brood. Fat chance that I will be able to find the queen. Never have been able to.....so many bees. Do I just sit back and let nature work and HOPE that I can catch the swarm? What are my options and how much time do I have. Thanks in advance for all of you advice, Steve

Sounds like I am talking to the Doctor that just gave me really bad news.

[Michael Bush]

If you have swarm cells, I'd do splits and make sure each has a queen cell.  I think of them as free queens and make a split for each frame that has queen cells.  A frame of brood and a frame of honey in a two frame nuc will give me a queen.  Three frames of brood and two of honey will give you a nice split that will build up pretty well.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

[asprince]

There is no brood in the hive and I have no other hives with brood. Split them anyway?

Steve

[Michael Bush]

>There is no brood in the hive and I have no other hives with brood. Split them anyway?

Are there queen cells?  If there are no queen cells and no brood, no, I would not split them at all.  If you have no brood from another hive to make sure they have the means to make a queen, then I guess I'd risk buying a queen, but they are likely to have one already that just isn't laying yet.

[Cindi]

Steve, I feel your disappointment and worry.  Easy for me to say, but don't worry too much, it won't help, it will only make you sadder.

So, listen to Michael, he has good advice.  Take the time to read his site, study it, it will help you out beyond your wildest dreams. 

But, now, if I were you, I would prepare to keep an eye out for swarms.  Read the posts about swarm catching and be ready.  That will take you into a really interesting part of beekeeping and should you catch a swarm(s), you will be very proud of yourself.  It is a wonderful thing that will boost your self-esteem with the bees.  This will make you feel like you are in control again.

Steve, you will have many challenges when you are entering this world of beekeeping.  Don't ever let any of it get you down, just remember, it is all learning curves and each one that you conquer will make you a better beekeeper.  Only knows, I have made so many mistakes that if I let them get me down I would have surely quit the scene.  BUT no, keep on keepin' on!!!!  You have a great day, have fun with the bees, keep the head up and in the clouds, great health!!!  Cindi