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ALMOST BEEKEEPING - RELATED TOPICS => GARDENING AROUND THE HOUSE => OTHER INSECTS BOTH GOOD AND BAD FOR THE GARDEN => Topic started by: BlueBee on July 22, 2011, 01:24:39 am

Title: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 22, 2011, 01:24:39 am
Anybody know what this little devil is?  He’s on a sumac bush.

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HickoryHornedDevil.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: mikecva on July 22, 2011, 08:36:42 am
No idea, but from the leaf it is eating and the leaf stub behind it, I would say it is very distructive. You might send a picture of it to you local Ag dept and ask them.   -Mike
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: Scadsobees on July 22, 2011, 09:48:33 am
That's the horniest caterpillar I've ever seen!

www.bugguide.net (http://www.bugguide.net)

Spend some time on there and you'll find most anything in the insect world! :-D
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: yockey5 on July 22, 2011, 10:10:13 am
I have seen them but I do not know what they are.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: boca on July 22, 2011, 10:16:37 am
Believe it is a young caterpillar of the regal moth called hickory horned devil.
Later it becomes colourful.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: Francus on July 22, 2011, 11:54:16 am
A quick check on Wikipedia and it seems you may be correct! The color is off, but that may be due to the age of the catapillar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hickory_Horned_Devil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hickory_Horned_Devil)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: Riggs on July 22, 2011, 12:36:47 pm
Bait at the nearest fishing hole.... :)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: Scadsobees on July 22, 2011, 02:02:33 pm
Forget the fishing hole!  My kids love to keep them in containers and feed them till they're cocoons, then watch them hatch out!  Looks like an ample food source right there....

It is really fun to watch... my 7 yr old raised several monarchs from when they were about the size of two periods ..  He really enjoyed that.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 22, 2011, 03:02:04 pm
I was outside checking on the little devil when I saw this HUGE beast on one of my small birch trees (Betula Nigra ‘Fox Valley’).

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/PolyphemusOnBirch.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: boca on July 22, 2011, 03:37:39 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus_moth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus_moth)
Quote
The caterpillar of the Polyphemus Moth can eat 86,000 times its weight at emergence in a little less than two months.

Your birch tree will be not enough.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: MrILoveTheAnts on July 22, 2011, 04:14:29 pm
Anybody know what this little devil is?  He’s on a sumac bush.

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HickoryHornedDevil.jpg)


That looks like the Hickory Horn Devil, Citheronia regalis. Also called the Regal Moth. It's a threatened species though I think there are a few programs to rear and release. Despite how evil they look it's best not to kill them.

If you're concerned about the particular tree it's eating then, consider simply removing it (nudge it with a stick into a container) and put it on an adjacent: Ash, Butternut, Cherry, Cotton, Hickory, Lilac, Pecan, Persimmon, Sumac, Sweet Gum, Sycamore, Walnut, Maple or Oak.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/3559/bgimage (http://bugguide.net/node/view/3559/bgimage)

The adult form is very pretty and uncommon to see.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: MrILoveTheAnts on July 22, 2011, 04:30:07 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus_moth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus_moth)
Quote
The caterpillar of the Polyphemus Moth can eat 86,000 times its weight at emergence in a little less than two months.

Your birch tree will be not enough.

I agree that this is a Polyphemus Caterpillar, Antheraea polyphemus. But I think you exaggerate about it eating the whole tree. They barely weigh anything the first 2 or 4 weeks and at that age one still can't consume an entire Oak leaf in a day. The one pictured looks older than that and can probably eat a few Oak leaves (as an example plant) in a day but nothing to noticeable. By the end of it's life cycle it may have stripped a small branch of it's leaves but over a two month period that's nothing the tree can't simply regrow.

Again if Mothra seems to be eating enough to make the tree unsightly I urge relocating it to another host plant. Use a stick or tongs, or snap off the part of the tree it's on and put it in a container. Host Plants include: Apple, Ash, Birch, Dogwood, Elm, Hazel, Hickory, Maple, Oak, Rose, and Willow, with Birch, Rose, and Willow at the top of their menu. I emphasis not touching them with your hands as the hairs can be irritating and sometimes cause allergic reactions.

Another idea would be to keep it in a terrarium where it can't escape and feed it like a pet until it's hatched out from it's cocoon. The adults are quite pretty and don't feed. All the eating these giant silk moths needed was done as a caterpillar. They don't drink water either, they get their moisture from eating fresh leaves. The adult moth only has about 2 weeks to do it's thing, mate, and if female, lay eggs before dying. Best to release once they hatch from their cocoon. In this way you can select which leaves it eats off your tree, perhaps from branches you were thinking of pruning this fall anyhow.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 22, 2011, 06:17:14 pm
Thanks guys.  Don’t worry MrAnts, I NEVER kill a cool caterpillar.  I have raised Polyphemus before but I have never seen one get this big before.  I raise them on Red Oak though.  Based on how huge this wild Poly got on the Betula, I may have to try to propagate that tree!
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: MrILoveTheAnts on July 23, 2011, 01:08:49 am
Thanks guys.  Don’t worry MrAnts, I NEVER kill a cool caterpillar.  I have raised Polyphemus before but I have never seen one get this big before.  I raise them on Red Oak though.  Based on how huge this wild Poly got on the Betula, I may have to try to propagate that tree!

Season might also be a factor. I know Luna Moths that over winter fed mostly on leaves that had fallen off the trees the previous fall, resulting in a much smaller adult than typical. Not sure if this applies to other moths though.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 23, 2011, 06:39:50 pm
That huge Polyphemus caterpillar spun a cocoon a day after I snapped the photo above.  I’ve got the other beasty protected with tulle.  Don’t want the birds or fishermen to get him :) 
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/BirchPolyInCocoon.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: AllenF on July 23, 2011, 07:35:01 pm
I think it is too late to use that little devil for fish bait.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 24, 2011, 01:43:13 pm
A devil update.  The thing has just shed its skin and is now the size of my index finger! 
You can see its old skin behind it.  Kind of cool how the old skin from its horns still holds structure. 

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HHDevil4thInstar.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: twintrades on July 24, 2011, 03:31:24 pm
Cool looking bug. Cant wait to see what the green Monster turns out to be.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: Riggs on July 24, 2011, 11:03:18 pm
I think it is too late to use that little devil for fish bait.


I think it'd scare the fish off now... thats an impressive looking catapillar.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 26, 2011, 02:23:46 pm
Mothra is now bigger than my middle finger and shows no sign of slowing down.  In the movie Jaws, there was that famous the line “we’re going to need a bigger boat”.  Well, I’m going to need a bigger tree!

The devil has taken on some new colors since his last molt.  Check out those horns.

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HHDevil4thInstarB.jpg)

Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: yockey5 on July 26, 2011, 05:21:51 pm
roll him in an egg batter and deep fry him sound good?
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: MrILoveTheAnts on July 26, 2011, 10:54:42 pm
Not with those spikes and hairs. They're designed to break off in the bird's throat and puncture everything they come in contact with.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 28, 2011, 08:22:40 pm
Devil update: 

This thing is getting HUGE!  I think it might start eating small pets if they get too close :shock:

Its now almost the size of a hotdog!  I'm going to have to try to stick a tape measure in for the next update.
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HickoryHornedDevilJuly28.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on July 30, 2011, 01:59:47 am
OK, guys and gals, I don’t know how much bigger this devil can possibly get before it pupates or explodes.  I decided to pick it off the sumac tonight and put it in a cage.  From what I’ve read, once they get about this big they crawl down from the trees and search around the ground for a place to dig a hole and pupate underground.  I would like to get this devil to pupate in a container though. 

Any ideas?

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HickoryHornedDevilJuly30.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: twintrades on July 30, 2011, 12:46:17 pm
Carfull itll bite your hand off ! :shock: :-D

Never had a dritter dig to morph. Only seen them spin on the tree. Will be cool to see it do its thing. keep taking pics !
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: MrILoveTheAnts on July 30, 2011, 06:50:10 pm
I believe a covered bucket with soil and leaf litter medium would work. After pupating it could carefully be dug up and place on the surface of the soil.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on August 01, 2011, 05:53:34 pm
The devil is STILL eating….

I’ve been practicing my pupating skills this past week getting ready for the big devil to pupate.  Everyone’s friend, the tomato worm, is also an earth pupator, so it is a good test vehicle for experimenting with earth pupation.  I have plenty of tomato worms to experiment with! 

I have read there might be simpler ways to do this, but I decided to try to emulate nature as much as possible for my first earth pupation attempt.  I grabbed a spare planting pot and filled it half full of saw dust, covered that with a wet paper towel and then threw in a big fat tomato worm + some tomato leaves.

After a couple of days, the tomato worm “disappeared”.   I saw a tunnel in the saw dust so I figured it had borrowed into the saw dust.  After about 4 days I decided to dig into the saw dust to see what happened.  I found a big dull green blob that still resembled a tomato worm, but its legs had regressed to just little bumps! 

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/TomatoWormCompilation.jpg)

Finally after about a week, I was kind of shocked to find this!  The tomato worm pupae had somehow wiggled out of its “skin” and turned into this cool pupa.  The old “skin” is to the right of the shiny brown pupae.  Nature sure is amazing sometimes!

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/TomatoWormPupaeA.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: twintrades on August 02, 2011, 08:47:06 am
Thats way cool! Never seen it before.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on August 03, 2011, 03:29:17 pm
I’m getting pretty good at pupating tomato worms now :-D  Practice makes perfect?

Here’s a close up for you tomato worm lovers out there.  The odd stem like thing coming out of the top of the pupae is where the moth’s long tongue is supposed to form.  You can also make out the lines of the moths wings.

These things should hatch into Carolina Sphinx hawk moths next spring.  These are descent sized moths as you can see from the pupae.  They have long tongues and fly like a hummingbird.  You may see them out sipping nectar from flowers in the evening.

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/TomatoWormPupea.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on August 04, 2011, 01:21:43 pm
For the love of God, the Devil has FINALLY stopped eating... 

I found it down crawling in the sawdust this morning.  It has changed from a leaf green coloration to an interesting teal coloration.  Sorry for the photo quality, it was taken in a dark 30 gallon trash can. 

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HickoryHornedDevilAqua.jpg)

For the past week or so it’s been living in a big 30 gallon trash can, with sumac for food and sawdust on the bottom.  This photo was taken before the devil started eating.

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/PupationChamberTrashCan.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: twintrades on August 05, 2011, 04:31:25 pm
Lol cool pics I love see your updates
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on August 07, 2011, 04:47:32 pm
OK, I risked the Wrath of Khan and pawed through the bottom of the trash can / saw dust where the devil has been pupating for the last few days.  This is what I found.  I pulled him out of the trash can and put him in a smaller container so I could watch the process better.  I was amazed how shriveled up this big beast has become. 

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/DevilPrePupa.jpg)
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on August 30, 2011, 12:42:11 am
I took the camera out to take a photo of the big pupae of the Hickory Horned devil when I heard something rustling about in the dark cabinet where I was keeping the HHD and the tomato worms I experimented with.

Turns out half the tomato worm pupae had hatched out and were now moths trying to escape.  Here’s a photo of what a tomato worm turns into before it pumps up it’s wings.

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/TobaccoHawkMoth.jpg)

I was astonished that the tomato worm pupae didn’t go into diapause (dormancy) for the winter.   We’ve only got another month of foliage left for the bugs to eat.  There really isn’t time for another cycle of tomato worms on my tomato plants. 

My guess is the tomato worms should have gone into diapause but didn’t because they were too warm where I was keeping them.  I had them in a warm dark cabinet, probably never got below 65F on average.  Whereas in their natural habitat underground, it's colder and damper than 65F.   

I suppose the lesson learned here is:  don’t let your earth pupators get too warm before next spring
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: BlueBee on August 30, 2011, 01:01:44 am
Here at last, is what that big fat hickory horned devil caterpillar turned into after it got done eating; a rather sizable pupae!
(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/MichiganBee/Moths%202011/HHDPupae.jpg)

This would normally winter underground, but I will be wintering it in a Rubbermaid with sawdust of some sort.  Come next spring, it should hatch out in a big Regal Moth.

I think there is a way to tell the males from the females at this point, but I’ll have to check into that.  I’ve been told the females are generally the larger pupae.
Title: Re: What is this devil?
Post by: Francus on August 30, 2011, 10:27:02 am
Wonderful pics. Keep 'em coming!