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Author Topic: Confused over Queen excluder use  (Read 2064 times)

Offline Janemma

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Confused over Queen excluder use
« on: April 22, 2008, 04:45:37 pm »
I have been reading about the Queen excluder and how most beeks don't use them.  I also read that you should never use an excluder when using a super of foundation above the brood box. 

An excluder came with my hive package but I would prefer not to use it.

I would like my honey supers to be foundation-free.

I am very confused as to the use of Queen excluders though - how do you stop the Queen from using the honey super as an extra brood box? 

many thanks

(from a complete beginner)                                           

Offline KONASDAD

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Re: Confused over Queen excluder use
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 04:55:08 pm »
If you dont use an excluder, you MAY get eggs and brood in a honey super. The queen needed more room to lay, so she went up and layed egges is all. I dont use them. I would rather lose a frame or two of honey than a queen to a swarm b/c she didn't have enough room to lay. Commercial beeks like excluders b/c they want to move fast, not worry whether the queen is in a super before removing it for extraction w/o looking in the super. For a few hives, its not needed IMO, I just look for eggs or brood in each box as i go. If the queen lays in there, just leave those frames in the super and extract the rest or leave it all for winter or later in the season when the brood nest diminishes in size..
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Online Michael Bush

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Re: Confused over Queen excluder use
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 11:13:56 pm »
>I would like my honey supers to be foundation-free.

You mean brood free?

>I am very confused as to the use of Queen excluders though - how do you stop the Queen from using the honey super as an extra brood box?

If the queen needs the space, would you rather they swarm?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#excluders

many thanks
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Offline Scadsobees

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Re: Confused over Queen excluder use
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 10:21:02 am »
If you go foundation-free in the supers, you almost certainly will get brood in there without an excluder, since they draw out much of the foundationless as drone or storage comb.  I find that she will cross full supers to lay in drone comb.

If you are using foundation, once the first super is full of honey, then the queen is less inclined to go up into the supers and lay.

Once past swarm season, and your supers are drawn out, and a honey flow on, then I find that excluders work fine.

Rick
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Confused over Queen excluder use
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2008, 10:25:25 am »
Janemma.  If the queen lays some brood frames in the honey supers, simply move those frames back down into the brood box, if they are bothering you there.  If not, just leave them, the brood will hatch out in a couple of weeks and the bees will store nectar in the cells that the brood was in, no problems. Like others said, let the queen lay where she wants, if she is restricted, the possibility of swarming is worse than brood in the honey super.  Have a great and wonderful day, Cindi
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Offline Janemma

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Re: Confused over Queen excluder use
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2008, 06:25:08 pm »
So it's just easy enough to check each frame for brood and do it that way than worry about using the excluder?  Well that simplifies things for sure.  Thanks so much!

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Confused over Queen excluder use
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 01:20:13 am »
Think of the use of queen excluders this way:  The limit the queen to a defined space, often inadequate for her needs.  If the brood chamber gets too crowded the hive switches to swarm more--you'll know this is happening when you see the bees back filling the brood area with nectar during spring or summer.  The more room the queen has to rear brood the quicker the hive becomes big and strong.  The stronger the hive the more foragers to work at any given moment which equals more honey production.  More bees = more honey.  Why limit the capability of your bees, and possibly force them to swarm, by using a queen excluder?  That is a harvest defeating way of thinking.  Let her lay where and how much she wants as long as she wants and you'll get much more of a harvest, more store for winter, and a larger cluster going into winter which improves the odds of survival until spring by a lot.  A strong hive will back fill 2 deeps almost completely with honey going into winter, leaving just a small dollar sized area on 2-3 frames for the queen to lay during the warmer parts of late fall.
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