Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: theBeeLord on November 18, 2013, 03:41:06 pm
-
so i've been reading different posts about different materials to use to build your own hive box etc. so my question is for those that have done that - do you have a total cost for building your own box? maybe even a time estimate? trying to figure out if i want to build, or buy used boxes off craigslist.
thanks
-
so i've been reading different posts about different materials to use to build your own hive box etc. so my question is for those that have done that - do you have a total cost for building your own box? maybe even a time estimate? trying to figure out if i want to build, or buy used boxes off craigslist.
thanks
alinn,
Welcome to the forum, while some might tell you that you really can't build your own equipment for cheaper, I strongly disagree. I use all 8 frame medium equipment and figure it cost me maybe 6 dollars and change a box. I'd probably have to pay around 15 for the same box not painted.
That being said, the only reason I build my own boxes is because I enjoy doing it. To me the time invested wouldn't be worth the savings if I didn't enjoy doing it. Then again, I don't rush the process...For two main reasons, First, as I said, I enjoy it....and Secondly, I still have all 10 of my fingers, and would like to keep them. :-D
As for buying used equipment, that has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. I've seen some used stuff that I wouldn't want in my bee yard, while I'm sure some stuff out their is fine...Personally, I just liked the idea of doing everything from the ground up once I decided to get started as a Beek.
-
I've bought a little used stuff here and there. The longer I'm a beekeeper, the more I understand what to look for. Warping, cracking, wood rot, homemade, mismeasured, odd size, improperly assembled, bad paint, bad hardware etc. I'm just talking boxes too. Frames need to be reviewed even more carefully as well. The combs are a whole different ball of wax too (pardon the pun). None of this even takes into account the dangers of bringing infected equipment back to your apiary.
I'm glad I didn't run into used stuff in the beginning because I would have invariably bitten hook line and sinker and given too much because I didn't know what to look out for.
-
I build my own, and I enjoy doing it.
You can never know what you can stumble upon when buying used - including disease, pesticide exposure and treatments build-up. So take everything on a case by case basis.
-
The price of 1 X lumber in the wider sizes has made it cost prohibited for me. Deeps are 9 5/8 high so a
1 X 12 is needed because a 1 X 10 is actually only 9 3/8 or 9 1/2. 1 X 12 are crazy expensive. I used to build all my own boxes when I could find cheap or free wood. I used to check the cull rack and home depot and lowes every week for any 1 X lumber at 70% off. Badly warped boards could still be used because they get cut in such short lengths. A few years back a contractor friend remodeled a old cottage ripping out all the tongue and groove walls. These were old boards a full 3/4 thick and widths up to 10 inches. I salvaged enough wide ones to make 50 me supers.
-
As a woodworker come Beek, I love making sawdust and have made all my own woodenware. Deeps, mediums, covers, frames, and the bottom box with a built in SHB oil tray. More of a necessity here as I've not seen used come up for sale (not that I look that often)!
Only thing I hate doing is painting!! LOL I can get 4 deeps out of 3, 8' pine boards. At 10 bucks a board the 4 hives come in at $7.50 per box plus the staples, glue, and paint. I'm retired and have more time than money, so it works well for me.
-
Alan, Welcome to the board. 1st suggestion; put your location in your profile. It helps others to answer some of your questions more specific.
I'm a little more than 5 months with bees on the ground. Personnally I build my own. I have found supers that were reasonably priced but the shipping was literally over twice the cost of one super. Just going by what I've read I would not let any "used" nothing come in contact with any of my bees. That could be just my inexperience speaking out. I do remember years ago when I started building up my goat herd. The new goats would make the resident goats sick and the resident goats would make the new ones sick. I have a field degree in goat diagnostics. Of course I gave it to myself.
My cost came in under 8 bucks each after everything was added together. I just got through (not completely) building 7 deeps and 39 mediums. Now I have to do the tops and bottoms. I'm going with the IPK oil trap (www.greenbeehives.com (http://www.greenbeehives.com) - they have the measurements on their website) for the bottom. I wouldn't do you justice if I told you the hours I had in this recent bee project. I don't have a radial arm saw and my table saw doesn't have a fence. I have to measure and clamp a board down for my fence - so time consuming! I'm like moots, I enjoy it. Ain't nothing like it; building supers, eating sugar cane/pomegranates/pecans and shooting crows when they come near my trees.
-
so i've been reading different posts about different materials to use to build your own hive box etc. so my question is for those that have done that - do you have a total cost for building your own box? maybe even a time estimate? trying to figure out if i want to build, or buy used boxes off craigslist.
thanks
alinn,
Welcome to the forum, while some might tell you that you really can't build your own equipment for cheaper, I strongly disagree. I use all 8 frame medium equipment and figure it cost me maybe 6 dollars and change a box. I'd probably have to pay around 15 for the same box not painted.
a 1 x 12 x 12 Board at Menards is 14 bucks. it makes TWO boxes i sell my boxes for 15 ea Painted. Figure in time, nails, glue, paint, electricity etc, I still make about 6 or 7 bucks a Box.
That being said, the only reason I build my own boxes is because I enjoy doing it. To me the time invested wouldn't be worth the savings if I didn't enjoy doing it. Then again, I don't rush the process...For two main reasons, First, as I said, I enjoy it....and Secondly, I still have all 10 of my fingers, and would like to keep them. :-D
I concur, but I feel that you are being Prejudice against those of us who havent got all ten fingers anymore!!! LOL
Well said. I have bees because I enjoy them. Making the equipment to me, is PART of the satisfaction. I have about 15 new boxes ready so far, complete with frames, and have less than a grand invested...
A LOT, depends on how many hives you intend to have. three or four hives? No, probably not worth setting up to build your own stuff.
20 hives? Now your getting into the realm of money savings if you build your own..
Something else to consider.. AS a beek, you WILL get calls once in a while.. bees in a shed or a swarm on an eve.. OR, you will realize if you dont split TODAY your bees are going to swarm... At which point, having an extra set of boxes, bottom board etc will pay for itself. EVEN, if you dont want to KEEP those bees, they could easily be sold if you have the stuff to set them up.
Like everything else in beekeeping.. it IS up to you how far you go and what you decide you enjoy, or dont. If you dont like woodworking, dont do it! if you have a table saw and a skill saw. Then you have what you need to make them.
Then again, as MR Prejudice who dislikes people with less than ten fingers said.. if your always in a hurry, or accident prone.. that 7 dollar box could quickly become a 10,000 dollar box..
-
lots of good info in the thread so far.
i have 10 fingers, but only 2 hives at this point. i enjoy wood working, but time and money are in short supply with a job and kids. my goal for next year is triple the nr of hives (splitting, catching swarms, removals, etc). i've already had to borrow a neighbor's nuc for a potential swarm removal - which is what got me thinking about the wisdom in having a few spares (bottom board, body, top) just in case.
i bought the tools and the gear, and the original package of bees and queen -- hopefully from now on i won't need to buy anymore bees, just provide homes for them . since i'm not selling honey or anything bee related yet, i'm trying to keep this hobby from becoming real expensive real quick.
-
Alan <...i'm trying to keep this hobby from becoming real expensive real quick...>
let me know how that works out for you
bee keeping reminds me of what a bar tab can do to you. Especially if you're a first year beek.
-
if you can place 0 cost on your time and you also enjoy the smell of cut wood then building your own stuff is the way to go.
used stuff always involves it's own set of built in hazards so you have to figure from the get go if you venture down this path you pay your money and take your chances.
as my beekeeping adventure has evolved this time around and as my old home made equipment wears out* I replace it with new and or nearly new manufactured boxes.
it is my own belief that the home made stuff will not last nearly as long as manufactured boxes. so if you plan on keeping bees from now out into the far future then this should also be a consideration.
*a great deal of this was build from perfectly acceptable material that was headed for the dump anyway.... so I obtain most of this at almost 0 cost.
-
The cost of a box is directly proportional to the cost of the lumber. Shop around. Lowe's and Home Depot are very high. Your local lumberyard (family owned, whose main product is lumber ) will be a lot cheaper. Rough sawn lumber from a local sawmill is the cheapest, but it will need to be dried and planed to the proper thickness. Of course free is even cheaper, but for me it is rare and not a dependable source.
-
i sell building materials and years ago i worked for home depot. generally speaking they sell material at 30 points of gross profit where a lumber yard will sell it for 1/3-1/2 of the margin depending on how often you shop there or if you know a salesman. a 2x4 that goes for 4 dollars at a box store can probably be bought for 2-2/2 to 3 from a supply house. the boxes use osb as a los leader. they usually sell it at or a nickel below cost. find a probuild, 84 lumber, or builder's first source in your area and try to make friends with the guys at the sales counter or an outside salesman.
-
I concur, but I feel that you are being Prejudice against those of us who havent got all ten fingers anymore!!! LOL
OldMech,
Just to clarify, I have nothing against anyone down a digit or two...Just not looking to join the club. :-D :lau:
In an effort to avoid earning my membership, anytime I'm operating any power equipment, primarily saws (chainsaw, radial arm saw, circular saw, etc. etc.)...The second I find myself getting "comfortable" with what I'm doing, I do a mental check and remind myself of the possible consequences of not staying completely focused on the task at hand.
-
After reading of all the problems that comes with buying 'unknown' used hives, I started many years ago with 'store bought' boxes and have never regretted it. If you go with 'Unknown' boxes, I suggest you place them in a freezer for about a week to try to kill as many unknown eggs as possible.
Come winter I have little to do to keep me out of my wife;'s hair so for Christmas she gave me some more tools (as if I don't have enough). With these I spend my down time making my self extra cider boxes for my bees. It keeps me out of my wife's hair and I enjoy making the boxes.
If you do not have woodworking experience, the proper tools, the spare time or plans for making the propre boxes (allowing the proper bee space) then I suggest buying your boxes where everything except exterior painting is done for you. Enjoy your bees and let us know how things are going for you. So few new beeks ever sell us of how things are doing. It is nice to hear these stories. -Mike
-
I will definitely keep posting - i'm the kind of person that likes to be overwhelmed with information -- maybe not always BEFORE i start something ... :) so i've been enjoying the FB group and this site with all the conversations and questions.
i thought i had researched a lot before i got the bees, but since i started i've done 10x more research. my grandfather was a beek in Europe (50 years ago, which would be the equivalent of 100 years ago here) and it's been fun to talk to my dad (who never took up beekeeping) about how grandpa used to do things. talk about natural and low-interference.
i started my year with 2 hives - splitting a 4 lb package and 2 shipped queens -- with lots of fun from the get-go -- one queen was dead, and the other didn't arrive until the next day. but bees did good - a little light on honey stores - feeding honey and sugar syrup - and monitoring them closely.
as i mentioned, my goal for next year is to have about 6 hives, if not more -- we'll see how that goes. i keep remembering the old saying: "man makes plans, and God laughs". nothing like beekeeping to teach you that you don't control things.
-
Shipping of boxes from any of the dealers about doubles the price tag but most have free shipping coming soon for the holidays and mannlake has it year round. If you decide to buy used most guys torch the insides just in case of foulbrood. To do this stack a few high and toss in a burning newspaper. Keep a tight fitting lid in hand because once the wax and propolis ignite things go fast. A hose or bucket of could come in handy also. If you decide to build I would suggest doing it right. Learn to cut box joints. A dado blade and table saw will do. I dont build boxes any more but have built over 100 all with box joint corners and recest handholds. The hand holds can be made with a simple jig and tablesaw also. Some here build there own frames. I thought of doing this once for about 2 seconds. Then I realized just how close my fingers would be to the blade. Mannlake deep frames are about 75 dollars a 100. Sure some will say "I can make them for 1/10 that price but lets face it, with free shipping that .75 cents each plus the fit is always tight. My personal opinion here is buy your boxes frames and foundation and build you tops, bottoms, feeders and maybe even a few nucs. If you go to the beesource web page there is a large selection of plans
-
My personal opinion here is buy your boxes frames and foundation and build you tops, bottoms, feeders and maybe even a few nucs. If you go to the beesource web page there is a large selection of plans
I'm close to danno on this one, except I'd say build your own boxes also....but as I've said, I enjoy it. One caveat, unless your skill set and equipment is well above average, I'd strongly recommend doing a single rabbet joint instead of a box joint. There's a lot of debate and opinions on which is technically "better"...Box joint has more surface area for gluing...But a rabbet joint only has half as much exposed end grain, etc. etc. etc. This issue can be, and has been, debated ad nauseam!
Even if you concede that a box joint is superior, you have to ask, is the payoff worth the added degree of difficulty, or is it simply overkill?
I'm a newbie, so how long my boxes will last is still an open ended question....However, I use a single rabbet joints, glue with Titebond III, and staple with a pneumatic staple gun.. I'm fairly confident that the joints on my boxes won't be the point of failure. I guess time will tell. :)
-
Many good point above me so I do not want to kick that horse but my $0.02 is build your own. My reasons for this are simple. I want cedar hives. They are very expensive to purchase pre-built. I can go to the lumber yard in Tacoma WA (lowcostcedar) and get 5/4 X 8" at $0.75 a foot. My boxes are double walled and I need about 7 feet of lumber to build one box. One 8 foot board is $6. Each box cost me about $7 once I count the dowels that I use to hold them together (no nails or staples.... I think I was Amish in a another life.... lol) I am double walling them with a 10mm (3/8 inch) gap in the middle to put a layer of Spaceloft® aerogel blanket. (This one layer is about R-3.2 plus another R-1.1 per layer of wood (5/4 inch) and I get about R-5.5 in the hive... give or take)
I am doing this because I think this is something Langstroth would have done based on his own writings. I guess time will tell if it is worth it.....
-
Many good point above me so I do not want to kick that horse but my $0.02 is build your own. My reasons for this are simple. I want cedar hives. They are very expensive to purchase pre-built. I can go to the lumber yard in Tacoma WA (lowcostcedar) and get 5/4 X 8" at $0.75 a foot. My boxes are double walled and I need about 7 feet of lumber to build one box. One 8 foot board is $6. Each box cost me about $7 once I count the dowels that I use to hold them together (no nails or staples.... I think I was Amish in a another life.... lol) I am double walling them with a 10mm (3/8 inch) gap in the middle to put a layer of Spaceloft® aerogel blanket. (This one layer is about R-3.2 plus another R-1.1 per layer of wood (5/4 inch) and I get about R-5.5 in the hive... give or take)
I am doing this because I think this is something Langstroth would have done based on his own writings. I guess time will tell if it is worth it.....
Variable,
No nails or staples, just dowels...and double walled cedar...INTERESTING....VERY INTERESTING! :)
I'd love to see some detailed pics if you don't mind sharing...
-
Moots,
I will post images once I have a few built. I am ordering the insulation next week and am currently working on the jig to cut the 3/8 fingers for the corner joints. (doing them without a jig ended up being a real pain) Here is a brief rundown of how I plan on building it (very close to how I build a bassinet for my nephew when he was born 18 years ago... god I am getting old)
Inner box. This is the inner most box of the double walls. It is basically a normal 10 frame hive. The only difference between my box and one you can purchase is: Mine have no handles cut in them. The corners are glued but not nailed. I drill a 1/4 inch hole from the top all the way to the bottom of the finger joints and then glue a dowel into that hole. Then from the outside of the box I drill an 1/8 inch hole through the hive and the dowel (the 1/4 inch one in the corners) and glue an 1/8 dowel into that hole. Now the 1/4 inch dowel can not be pulled out (even if the glue fails) without first breaking or drilling out the 1/8 dowel. So now the first box is securely put together and there are no nails or brads.
Now I have to shim the box to allow the space needed for the insulation between the inner and outer wall. I cut down some of the scrap 3/4 inch cedar I have left over after ripping the box down to 6 5/8 into 3/8 inch thick strips. I glue these 3/8 by 3/4 strips all the way around the top and bottom edge of the box. It is now ready for the outer box. (Once the insulation is cut and placed into the gap created by the shim)
The outer box is basically built the same way. 3/8 finger joints and they wrap all the way around the inner box. I do the same corner dowel trick as I did on the inner box and then drill a series of 1/4 inch holes through the inner and outer box (from the outside edges) making sure that it is centered on the 3/4 inch shim (1/4 inch from top or bottom edge of box) and space them about every 2 inches (the corners are not 2 inches but all the ones between are) and then glue a dowel into those holes (while it is clamped together). I then drill (after the glue has dried) 1/8 inch holes about an 1 inch deep into the top and bottom edges of the hive box making sure to go through the 1/4 dowels that are holding the two boxes together and glue those in as well. Some light sanding after a careful flush cut on each dowel and it is ready to be sealed or painted. To me it looks great and I plan on just clear sealing (not sure what I am going to use yet but probably Rosewood oil)... I am planning on building a screened bottom board with oil tray. This bottom board will NOT be open on the bottom and I am planning on only using it for IPM reasons and not for temp or humidity control.
-
Moots,
I will post images once I have a few built. I am ordering the insulation next week and am currently working on the jig to cut the 3/8 fingers for the corner joints. (doing them without a jig ended up being a real pain) Here is a brief rundown of how I plan on building it (very close to how I build a bassinet for my nephew when he was born 18 years ago... god I am getting old)
Inner box. This is the inner most box of the double walls. It is basically a normal 10 frame hive. The only difference between my box and one you can purchase is: Mine have no handles cut in them. The corners are glued but not nailed. I drill a 1/4 inch hole from the top all the way to the bottom of the finger joints and then glue a dowel into that hole. Then from the outside of the box I drill an 1/8 inch hole through the hive and the dowel (the 1/4 inch one in the corners) and glue an 1/8 dowel into that hole. Now the 1/4 inch dowel can not be pulled out (even if the glue fails) without first breaking or drilling out the 1/8 dowel. So now the first box is securely put together and there are no nails or brads.
Now I have to shim the box to allow the space needed for the insulation between the inner and outer wall. I cut down some of the scrap 3/4 inch cedar I have left over after ripping the box down to 6 5/8 into 3/8 inch thick strips. I glue these 3/8 by 3/4 strips all the way around the top and bottom edge of the box. It is now ready for the outer box. (Once the insulation is cut and placed into the gap created by the shim)
The outer box is basically built the same way. 3/8 finger joints and they wrap all the way around the inner box. I do the same corner dowel trick as I did on the inner box and then drill a series of 1/4 inch holes through the inner and outer box (from the outside edges) making sure that it is centered on the 3/4 inch shim (1/4 inch from top or bottom edge of box) and space them about every 2 inches (the corners are not 2 inches but all the ones between are) and then glue a dowel into those holes (while it is clamped together). I then drill (after the glue has dried) 1/8 inch holes about an 1 inch deep into the top and bottom edges of the hive box making sure to go through the 1/4 dowels that are holding the two boxes together and glue those in as well. Some light sanding after a careful flush cut on each dowel and it is ready to be sealed or painted. To me it looks great and I plan on just clear sealing (not sure what I am going to use yet but probably Rosewood oil)... I am planning on building a screened bottom board with oil tray. This bottom board will NOT be open on the bottom and I am planning on only using it for IPM reasons and not for temp or humidity control.
** emphasis added
Variable,
On the issue of sealing, have you heard of a wood preservative called ECO? It was mentioned in this thread. (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,42970.0.html)
I had never heard of it but did a little reading on it....It seems like an interesting option!
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,42970.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,42970.0.html)
-
Moots,
I had not hear of it until now. It is Hemp oil.... wonder how well it works and how long it last. Time to do more research.... Thanks for the info. I love this forum!!!!!!!!
-
Moots,
I had not hear of it until now. It is Hemp oil.... wonder how well it works and how long it last. Time to do more research.... Thanks for the info. I love this forum!!!!!!!!
Variable,
Not to hijack alan's thread and drift too far off topic...But let me know what you find with your research and what you think of ECO wood preservative. I just finished assembling 17 boxes last night that I had cut earlier this year, was considering starting the painting process tonight. However, the more I look at this ECO product, I'm seriously considering giving it a try. Here's a LINK (http://abqbeeks.org/forum/topics/eco-wood-organic-treatment-and)where the guy speaks highly of it, of course...it also looks like he sells it. :)
I'm also seeing where you can get it through Home Depot shipped to your home, or the store for pick-up, both w/free shipping...Same for Walmart!
None of the reviews on the Home Depot site speak to longevity, but there all quite positive as far as mixing, application, clean up, appearance, etc. etc.
I might throw out a new thread on this and see if anyone has any experience or opinions on it.
-
Finger joints will make your corners stronger, definitely.. but I must pose the question.. HOW STRONG do the corners need to be?
Is it worth the TIME to make those joints?
Is it worth the cost of the Dado blade?
Is it worth the extra effort to seal those corners and joints?
Making the jig isnt too hard. i made one, made quite a few boxes with it.. by the second year they were splitting and warping, normally from the corner of a recess. I still have and use a few of those boxes, but I have to stay on top of them more than I do the rabbit joints or butt joints.
I switched to rabbiting the edges, and that made a difference in the splitting and warping until it was pointed out to me.. that I would be replacing them in five or so years, give or take a couple anyhow...
The philosophy I walked away with is that woodenware is disposable. In other words...
Make it GOOD, EASILY.
I have been building butt joints, and have had some pretty surprised people using them.. No splitting, separating etc.. the corners are easy to seal and keep sealed. I use glue and BRAD nails. The boxes are strong enough that i can stand my fat *#$ on the CORNER endwise without it giving up. I would imagine if I bounced on it it would break, but then I can probably break the other joints too..
I have boxes inherited from my mentor that are close to eight years old. butt joints, and they are still doing fine. I also have already replaced most of the box joints I built.
The difference may be in the details, what paint you use etc... I use the cheapest exterior paint I can find.. once its chipped off the corners it doesnt matter how expensive it was.. Maybe I am not sealing the box joints well enough, they need more than two coats of paint.... it remains, the butt joints dont, they seem happy with cheap paint, and the bees havent complained yet, despite being female. (oops, did I say that?)
It is ESSENTIAL, that you build them like you want!! I am just pointing out something that made life a LOT easier for me.
I dont try to build fortresses anymore. I sell quite a few, and have no complaints. I have lost sales because they are not box joints, and I have lost sales because the hand holds are routed and not undercut like commercial hives.. I am OK with that.. I build them for MY use. Selling a few is just a bonus.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/KnitePrince/005.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/KnitePrince/media/005.jpg.html)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/KnitePrince/010.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/KnitePrince/media/010.jpg.html)
-
Moots,
I had not hear of it until now. It is Hemp oil.... wonder how well it works and how long it last. Time to do more research.... Thanks for the info. I love this forum!!!!!!!!
Variable,
Not to hijack alan's thread and drift too far off topic...But let me know what you find with your research and what you think of ECO wood preservative. I just finished assembling 17 boxes last night that I had cut earlier this year, was considering starting the painting process tonight. However, the more I look at this ECO product, I'm seriously considering giving it a try. Here's a LINK (http://abqbeeks.org/forum/topics/eco-wood-organic-treatment-and)where the guy speaks highly of it, of course...it also looks like he sells it. :)
I'm also seeing where you can get it through Home Depot shipped to your home, or the store for pick-up, both w/free shipping...Same for Walmart!
None of the reviews on the Home Depot site speak to longevity, but there all quite positive as far as mixing, application, clean up, appearance, etc. etc.
I might throw out a new thread on this and see if anyone has any experience or opinions on it.
I am always all about simplicity.. I'd like to hear a bit more about the stuff.. it soaks into the wood like a stain I presume? If it does it may indeed help with that rotting corner issue as well as sealing box joints better, inside and out.. not that I intend to go back to them now :-P
-
Moots,
I had not hear of it until now. It is Hemp oil.... wonder how well it works and how long it last. Time to do more research.... Thanks for the info. I love this forum!!!!!!!!
Variable,
Not to hijack alan's thread and drift too far off topic...But let me know what you find with your research and what you think of ECO wood preservative. I just finished assembling 17 boxes last night that I had cut earlier this year, was considering starting the painting process tonight. However, the more I look at this ECO product, I'm seriously considering giving it a try. Here's a LINK (http://abqbeeks.org/forum/topics/eco-wood-organic-treatment-and)where the guy speaks highly of it, of course...it also looks like he sells it. :)
I'm also seeing where you can get it through Home Depot shipped to your home, or the store for pick-up, both w/free shipping...Same for Walmart!
None of the reviews on the Home Depot site speak to longevity, but there all quite positive as far as mixing, application, clean up, appearance, etc. etc.
I might throw out a new thread on this and see if anyone has any experience or opinions on it.
Moots I have been using the ECO for a couple maybe three years. It is easy to put on and cleanup is nothing just wash brush with water. As to how long it will make the wood last I don't know. I'll let you know in a few years. With time in the weather it turns the wood a dark gray. I'm using it on cypress so maybe they will outlast me.
-
this hive was treated with ECO if the picture works. I like the color but many people like colors and don't like the rustic look. Just thought I would show what it looks before you try it.
(http://s23.postimg.org/e3crkzxk7/hive_on_stump.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e3crkzxk7/)
-
Allen buy, build or do Craig's list . biggest thing is think ahead were you will by in 5 or 10 years. if you are getting up in years think about 8 frame mediums instead of 2 deep 10 frame. I went the 10 frame deeps thing and have about 200 of them and cant turn back I should add I' m 56 with a good back knock on wood
-
wow - i was off the forum for a day and had a whole page of reading to catch up (just on my post).
i've started with 8 frame hives (learned from my neighbor who started with 10) and i love the relative ease of handling my box vs my neighbor's.
i'm still in my 30's -- so i would like to think i'll be doing this for decades. maybe at some point even recouping some of the costs.
i love the idea by variable - but am thinking for me, at this stage, might be a bit much. if i build i'll probably do something simpler like OldMech - at least until i get more comfortable with box making. (and have more free time).
interesting side conversations about sealers/paints. can't really have a conversation about building your own vs buying without talking about choice of sealers.
i'd still like to get a time estimate of how long it takes the box builders to build one box - start to finish. and then i'm going to triple that nr when i calculate how long it would take me LOL
-
i'd still like to get a time estimate of how long it takes the box builders to build one box - start to finish. and then i'm going to triple that nr when i calculate how long it would take me LOL
Alan,
Not trying to dodge your question, but couldn't even venture a good guess on time for building one box. But understand, building one box would be a terribly inefficient use of time because so much time is spent in prep and setup. Think economies of scale...
-
I don’t try to run a race when I make bee boxes but I try to learn to be efficient with my set ups. Doing things in a set sequence saves time by not having to reset the saw back to a single blade after getting the stacked dado installed. The following is the steps I take to build the deep box. I can make two boxes in about 35-45 minutes.
Rip two 12”x96” wide boards to width on the talblesaw.
Use a cutting sled to cut the end and side boards.
Set the stacked dado to 13/16” with a sacrificial board on the fence so I can get a 3/4” wide x 3/8” deep rabbet on the end board for the side boards to fit into.
Move fence over to cut the 5/8” rabbet along the top of the end board.
Take the sacrificial board off the fence and move it 3” away from the dado head to the edge of my “stop jig” and run grooves 6” x 13/16” x 5/8” deep, in all four sides.
Add glue to the side rabbets and assemble with 1 1/2", 1/4” crown staples.
Check for square and let dry overnight.
If I were making a bunch of boxes, the time per box goes down a lot.
I guess I could do them faster if I wasn't watching where my fingers were all the time!! :-D
-
I guess I could do them faster if I wasn't watching where my fingers were all the time!! :-D
Royall,
This is a great point which I don't think can be overstated. No doubt, we're all busy and our time is valuable, we all only get 24 hours a day. HOWEVER, we also all only get 8 fingers and 2 thumbs to last us a lifetime.
Anyone who feels their time is so limited that they need to be watching a clock or thinking, "I need to hurry", while building woodenware...Would be well served to turn off the saw, go home, sit at their computer, and order some woodenware. :-D
-
exactly Moots,
sometimes you can hurry, and sometimes you can't. when dealing with sharp objects, best to take your time.
as much as i enjoy wood working, with a wife and kids, i can only get away with doing so many things that "I" enjoy before it starts to negatively impact them. so i try to be a good steward, and DO myself when i can, buy when i cannot. my wife's greatest complaint is that i under-estimate how long it will take me to do something.
variable, your design for the hive box sounds very interesting - from so many angles - the cedar, the double wall, the insulation - definitely something i'd like to see some pictures of. and maybe one day, attempt to build myself.
thanks
-
Alan,
I know exactly what you're saying...
Not to be discouraging, but just being honest...I think your time investment will most likely be more than you are expecting, and without a doubt, much more than your wife is expecting. :-D At least that was my experience. :laugh:
However, I think you have time on your side, we're still a week away from December, you won't be getting bees for several months...If I were you, I'd decide how many boxes you think you'll need. Buy the lumber to make TWICE as many boxes, YES..TWICE AS MANY...trust me, and approach is piecemeal...sneak off to the workshop when time allows for an hour or two here and there. Cut your boards to length one day, rip them another, cut your rabbets another...etc. etc.
And when it's all said and done, it will have all taken you much more time than you expected, but you will have enjoyed every minute of it...And while your wife may not be thrilled with it, she'll get over it...as I tell my friends, it's not a divorce-able offense. :-D
Good Luck! :)
-
were not going to the finger thing again are we??? hehe
I would say about ten to fifteen minutes as I build them, not counting paint.. IF I only built one box...
Not taking into consideration building the jigs I have for routed handles or assembling the boxes... I built 8 boxes; cutting side boards, end boards and ripping them to 6 5/8... adjusting the table saw to 5/8 by 3/8 and running the end boards.. adjusting to 3/8 by 5/8 and running them again to make the frame rests.. nail/glue them together.. around a half hour... let glue dry overnight... drop jigs on and rout the handholds.. about 1 min per side... a little over a half hour... so an hour give or take a few mins for 8 boxes comes to about 7.5 minutes per box.. without rushing but not having to waste any time.. It would be a bit longer doing box joints but not exceptionally so if you had your jig set up and ready to drop on the table.. of course, there is swapping to the dado blade to add a few more minutes. Dado blade is also nice for making the frame rests, but consideration for swapping the blade as opposed to adjusting the guide makes it just as easy to use the normal blade and make two passes.
The first boxes are the hardest.. making sure your measurements are right, making a board to set your box parts into to line them up for quick and easy nailing etc.. but after you have done a couple it gets pretty easy fast. Rather than CUTTING hand holds, you can make a cleat to nail to each side and avoid the trouble.. I dont like cleats because I wrap my hives for winter and they get in the way so i route the handholds.
Its the frames that take time.
-
Its the frames that take time.
OldMech,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't want to confuse Alan...I take it your above statement refers to "making" and not simply assembling frames. I don't think Alan was considering going there...I know I'm not! :laugh:
Order frames unassembled, build yourself a jig, and those can be knocked out rather quickly. Now, I do use wax foundation and wire my frames and if I had to pick one step in the process that is probably my least favorite and takes a little time, I'd have to say wiring frames. But that's a whole other story. :-D
-
Its the frames that take time.
OldMech,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't want to confuse Alan...I take it your above statement refers to "making" and not simply assembling frames. I don't think Alan was considering going there...I know I'm not! :laugh:
Order frames unassembled, build yourself a jig, and those can be knocked out rather quickly. Now, I do use wax foundation and wire my frames and if I had to pick one step in the process that is probably my least favorite and takes a little time, I'd have to say wiring frames. But that's a whole other story. :-D
My apologies for not being clear. Yes, making frames from scratch... 2x8x12 comes in the door and 49 frames go out.. barring splits and knots of course :)
Comes from having too much time... Currently I dont wire using all mediums, but considering running one wire at least on the super frames.. will see how extraction goes next year.
-
[/quote] My apologies for not being clear. Yes, making frames from scratch... 2x8x12 comes in the door and 49 frames go out.. barring splits and knots of course.[/quote]
OM, are making all the frame components out of the 2x8? I make my frames all out of pine as doug fir is too knotty and all that comes into Hawai'i has been treated with HiBore for termites. The only 2x pine I can find is 16' T&G. After ripping the T&G off, I end up with only about 4" of usable board. That being said, the remainder of the components come out of 1x pine. I did have some straight grain fir left over from a project that worked OK but is too expensive to use otherwise. Sure wish I could get 2x6 or 2x8 pine here.
-
My apologies for not being clear. Yes, making frames from scratch... 2x8x12 comes in the door and 49 frames go out.. barring splits and knots of course.[/quote]
OM, are making all the frame components out of the 2x8? I make my frames all out of pine as doug fir is too knotty and all that comes into Hawai'i has been treated with HiBore for termites. The only 2x pine I can find is 16' T&G. After ripping the T&G off, I end up with only about 4" of usable board. That being said, the remainder of the components come out of 1x pine. I did have some straight grain fir left over from a project that worked OK but is too expensive to use otherwise. Sure wish I could get 2x6 or 2x8 pine here.
[/quote]
Yeah Royall.. you can use any 2x material 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 etc... one 12' piece of 2x8 yields 49 top and bottom bars.. you can get 7 out of the length, and seven out of the width.. when trimming the 2x material to square it you get the bottom bar off of each piece.. Yes, knots and splits take their toll..
I try to use 2x10 or 2x12 when I do the side plates.. just means less cutting, kerfing and routing to make more plates.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/KnitePrince/015.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/KnitePrince/media/015.jpg.html)
the piece on the right is a 1" sliced out of the 2x material, the next two are after trimming to 1" square. the middle one is after trimming the shoulders.. etc... the side plates i use the planer to make the whole piece 1 3/8, then stand the board on end, raise the table saw blade up as far as it will go and kerf the sides 1/8 of an inch.. its easier than it sounds.. then I use a 5/8 router bit, center it in the 1 1/8 side (narrow) and route the bottom.. flip the piece over and route it again, turn it around and route it a third time making the top groove about 7/8.. then just run them through the table saw at the thickness you want your side plates. I use a push stick doing that on the last few to try to keep all my remaining fingers attached.
takes time.. but I have built about 800 of them in the last three weeks.
-
I use a push stick doing that on the last few to try to keep all my remaining fingers attached.
OM,
Quite impressive, but I must confess, I had to chuckle a bit when I got to the "all my 'remaining' fingers" comment. Sorry! ;)
-
I use a push stick doing that on the last few to try to keep all my remaining fingers attached.
OM,
Quite impressive, but I must confess, I had to chuckle a bit when I got the the "all my 'remaining' fingers" comment. Sorry! ;)
LOL.. HATER!!!!
-
so i've been reading different posts about different materials to use to build your own hive box etc. so my question is for those that have done that - do you have a total cost for building your own box? maybe even a time estimate? trying to figure out if i want to build, or buy used boxes off craigslist.
thanks
Nice question. First of all, let me ask about your beekeeping experience. If you have enough, it is possible to think about the building. Then the time for that is also important, approximately you will need a 1.5 week to cover all technology process. What about price, the approximate estimation for building 3-hull hive is +/-$80 here.
Regarding materials: traditionally wood, but you can try your hand in building Styrofoam boxes.
Feel free to ask me about this theme in private messages.