Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

ALMOST BEEKEEPING - RELATED TOPICS => OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES FORUM => Topic started by: VolunteerK9 on April 28, 2010, 01:27:16 pm

Title: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: VolunteerK9 on April 28, 2010, 01:27:16 pm
I have been interested in alternative forms of energy production for a while now, so recently I have begun to build myself a windmill.  Pretty cool stuff. You use an old delco alternator (basically change everything inside), attach a tail and blade, wire it up and away you go.  Not quite done with mine yet as my beekeeping hobby depleted my she money account.  Anyone else on here piddled with this stuff with any success?
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: David LaFerney on April 28, 2010, 08:07:36 pm
Do you mean an automotive alternator?
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Michael Bush on April 28, 2010, 11:00:38 pm
"basically change everything inside".  Could you elaborate?  I've been interested in windmills for fourty years.  Had a friend who used to refurbish old Jacobs generators.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: RayMarler on April 29, 2010, 02:21:06 am
I'm probably wrong as it's been many many years since I was a mechanic and I never have been an electrician. But, I think standard GM auto alternators are 3 phase alternating current which gets changed to dc current with a diode bank. Perhaps pulling out the diode bank with minor soldering maybe? would give you 3 phase alternating current output from your windmill for the house? Are there any electrical engineers in the house? :D
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: bluegrass on April 29, 2010, 07:21:32 am
Remember old generators back before the alternator started appearing? She is rewinding an Alternator into a Generator. Alternators charge at the same rate no matter if they spin fast or slow. A generator charges more the faster it spins so they are better suited to wind power.

I played with the idea of wind power, but we have an ordinance against setting up towers higher than the peak of the house. Unless electricity gets a lot more expensive or the state starts offering a credit to switch to solar I can't afford that route.       
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: David LaFerney on April 29, 2010, 09:20:02 am
You might consider doing something more simple as an experiment just to see if you have enough windy weather for it to be worth while - I don't think it is in my part of TN.   DC motors also work as DC generators.  Tread mill motors for example.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: David LaFerney on April 29, 2010, 09:26:15 am
I'm probably wrong as it's been many many years since I was a mechanic and I never have been an electrician. But, I think standard GM auto alternators are 3 phase alternating current which gets changed to dc current with a diode bank. Perhaps pulling out the diode bank with minor soldering maybe? would give you 3 phase alternating current output from your windmill for the house? Are there any electrical engineers in the house? :D

You are correct about all that, but the bigger issues for using an automotive alternator is that they aren't "self exciting" because they use electromagnets instead of permanent ones - they have to be connected to a battery to work right.  Also they have to spin pretty fast before they kick in, but that can be overcome with gears or pulleys.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: VolunteerK9 on April 29, 2010, 10:39:09 am
"basically change everything inside".  Could you elaborate?  I've been interested in windmills for fourty years.  Had a friend who used to refurbish old Jacobs generators.

What a lot of people are using is the Delco 10si or 12si which was a high output alternator to start with. There are parts available to pull more wattage out of it such as a different coil, permanent magnet rotors and a more efficient rectifier.  For lower wind zones, larger blade diameters and more blades help bring the alternator up to producing speed

.
You might consider doing something more simple as an experiment just to see if you have enough windy weather for it to be worth while - I don't think it is in my part of TN.   DC motors also work as DC generators.  Tread mill motors for example.

Yeah, I look ed up the wind zone chart for my area, and I'm right on the border line. My house sits right in the middle of a valley at the edge of a mountain so I get some good wind gusts where my neighbor on the hill barely gets any.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: David LaFerney on April 29, 2010, 01:45:26 pm
"basically change everything inside".  Could you elaborate?  I've been interested in windmills for fourty years.  Had a friend who used to refurbish old Jacobs generators.

What a lot of people are using is the Delco 10si or 12si which was a high output alternator to start with. There are parts available to pull more wattage out of it such as a different coil, permanent magnet rotors and a more efficient rectifier.  For lower wind zones, larger blade diameters and more blades help bring the alternator up to producing speed

.
You might consider doing something more simple as an experiment just to see if you have enough windy weather for it to be worth while - I don't think it is in my part of TN.   DC motors also work as DC generators.  Tread mill motors for example.

Yeah, I look ed up the wind zone chart for my area, and I'm right on the border line. My house sits right in the middle of a valley at the edge of a mountain so I get some good wind gusts where my neighbor on the hill barely gets any.


It seems like the wind mostly blows at my house when it's inconvenient.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Bee Happy on April 29, 2010, 01:59:32 pm
There's tons of sites that offer step by step instructions - you can hand wind your own 5KW turbine if you like,  but they have generator/solar/whatever to house interface instructions. I haven't charged hard  into it myself but I will.
        I caught the power co-op charging unjustified late fees again and again (had to argue with the cashier every month) it didn't stop until I wrote a letter threatening a class action suit. - then the lineman showed up at my house at 9:30 PM saying he had to inspect my meter immediately.
   Can't wait to tell them "this is my last payment" along with a finger.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Jahjude on April 30, 2010, 11:57:27 am
Wanna jump onboard the alternative energy train soon also but between work and side biniz,beekeeping beeing my latest,I'm stretched thin.
But racking up a wind turbine system is definately a goal of mine-lots a great sites on da net and youtube has got some great vidz also :roll:
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: lenape13 on April 30, 2010, 01:52:40 pm
I've been wanting to play with wind generation for some time, but it will have to wait until the colder months when I have some free time.  If I could just figure out how to turn junk mail into electricity, I'd really have it made!
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Bee Happy on April 30, 2010, 04:23:51 pm
I've been wanting to play with wind generation for some time, but it will have to wait until the colder months when I have some free time.  If I could just figure out how to turn junk mail into electricity, I'd really have it made!

...There's conventional steam power from fire. - unless you mean spam.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: David LaFerney on May 01, 2010, 12:26:43 am
If I could only find a way to recover a bunch of those $4 solar yard lights that get thrown away....
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: VolunteerK9 on May 03, 2010, 10:32:40 am
Hey LaFerney... the amount of wind we got this weekend, with a couple of wind generators we could have went off the grid for a couple of days. My house is minus a few more shingles again.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on May 03, 2010, 12:17:25 pm
Ive been looking at this also however I'm not good at building things. I was looking at this website below. It is exxpensive but I think would be worth it.

http://windenergy7.com/ (http://windenergy7.com/)
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: iddee on May 05, 2010, 11:07:27 pm
Mistake, sorry.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Bee Happy on May 06, 2010, 11:55:27 am
Remember old generators back before the alternator started appearing? She is rewinding an Alternator into a Generator. Alternators charge at the same rate no matter if they spin fast or slow. a generator charges more the faster it spins so they are better suited to wind power.

I played with the idea of wind power, but we have an ordinance against setting up towers higher than the peak of the house. Unless electricity gets a lot more expensive or the state starts offering a credit to switch to solar I can't afford that route.       

I don't remember if it's  Florida law or federal law, but, in Florida for sure, you can move into the snobbiest, most restrictive, meddlesome Homeowner association run subdivision, and mount up a wind generator. They CANNOT make restrictions prohibiting you from harvesting alternative power. (they might be able to demand that your stuff be aesthetically of good fit and finish, but I'm not sure they can even do that.)
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: AliciaH on August 20, 2010, 11:35:58 am
There's tons of sites that offer step by step instructions - you can hand wind your own 5KW turbine if you like,  but they have generator/solar/whatever to house interface instructions. I haven't charged hard  into it myself but I will.

Can you provide a lead on these sites?  I'm interested in this but am a total novice.  I've tried to search in the past but keep ending up on sites that want to charge a fee for the information.  For one, it's not really in my budget.  Two, even though I know some funds will be required to build the windmill, I'm hesitant to pay a fee for information when I don't know what the information will include and whether or not I'll be able to understand it when I get it.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: VolunteerK9 on August 20, 2010, 11:43:04 am
Missouriwindandsolar dot com is the one that I ordered most of my stuff from. I'm still working on mine as funds are real limited for me right now.  Just waiting on the ole income tax return to finish everything.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: specialkayme on August 20, 2010, 04:41:01 pm
Most of this stuff is way over my head. I like it though, and would love to learn more.

Cash is thinner now than it ever has been for me, so buying in isn't an option. However, learning what I need to do when I do have more cash is helpful. I particularly like the idea of spending low amounts in the beginning, then building on the system over time. It's a whole lot easier to pay $2,000 a year for add ons than it is to pay $20,000 up front for the whole system.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: slacker361 on August 20, 2010, 04:54:59 pm
i believe that a combination of wind and solar is the best , you can make  one with the car alternator, but i dont think you can get you best output that way, i have seen ceiling fans used as well as just box fans , again not much out put.

you can make your own which seems to be the best.
make yourown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahs2pM10xQU#)


then you can run this through a diode and change to dc, then to a battery and then to an online dc to ac inverter.

Grid tie inverter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo0_aDfgRpM#ws)

the only problem i see with this set up is if the grid goes down for what ever reason, you have to do something with the power being made. I am sure you can see this being a problem during a bad storm, while this will be putting out some serious power.

although you can short out the three phases and that will work as a brake, but will not stop the wind mill from spinning.

hope this helps some
 I like the VAWT the best.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on May 20, 2012, 12:37:19 pm
Well I am finally up and running with wind and solar energy. The system I bought does 4.2kwh with an average of 600 kwh a month. Im hoping to increase the monthly out put to 900. I have a hybrid system and battery banks. Here are a few photos.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9561/dscf9788f.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/dscf9788f.jpg/)


(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1472/dscf9794g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/dscf9794g.jpg/)

Im still missing two solar panels because my guy making my frame to set them in broke one. The solar panels are parralled so that is why one is still covered up.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: specialkayme on May 20, 2012, 02:59:52 pm
Impressive. How much did it set you back, if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Kathyp on May 20, 2012, 03:20:32 pm
my question also.  and where did you get your stuff?
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Sparky on May 20, 2012, 06:55:20 pm
http://www.mwands.com/index.php?main_page=index (http://www.mwands.com/index.php?main_page=index)

These people have kits for just what you are doing. I thought about doing one myself and found that the alternator needs a fair amount of wind to start producing good power. This company has the correct stuff to make it start to output at lower speeds and they also have a nice solar/wind power interface to make it simple for the average home owner to be able to hook it up.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on May 20, 2012, 10:38:31 pm
I got my stuff from Windenergy7. I also became a dealer for the company. I caught my system on sale for 14,900. It came with 3 turbines, 6 panels, inverter, charge controlers, and mounting brackets. Im pushing 4.2 kwh so I should be able to run my house for 7 to 8 months a year without touching grid energy. The other months I should only be paying very little, due to ac running.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: divemaster1963 on May 20, 2012, 11:37:55 pm
OK I run my shop off mostly wind and sun. I built my wind gens myself. Now for the short story of it.

With no extra money I was told by my power company that it would cost 5000.00 to run power to my shop 1000 feet behind my home across a mostly dry creek bed. so I started looking for alternatives. I started to build a hub gen and it became cost prohibitive. next I was looking around and I found that the newer AC fan motors for the inside unit of high end AC units were using ECM motors. these motors are a basic permanet magnetic motor. so I found that by removing the electronic pack all I had to do was cut the winding leads to each of the series of the three phase and run leads out. then attach each phase to a full wave rectifying diode to change from AC to DC then run into a charge controller then into a battery bank. I also tie in my solar panels into the same controller. then I purchased a inverter to run all my lights and power tools. Except my large table saw. with this system I have enough power to run the shop for a full day. I get the ECM motors from AC suppliers. They tough the bad ones away. the only thing wrong with then is the electronic pack which I don't use. so that's free. the battery bank is old cores I get from a battery wholesaler. I get them cheap. they still have life in them and last 3-5 years each. cost only 15 -25.00 each . new they cost 175,00 to 225.00 each. mostly golf cart batteries are the best.  the inverter cost 129.00 with coupon from HF.  My total I have in my system is 500.00 I made my blades and hub. out of wood then aluminum.
Here are a few picks of them.


(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p558/divemaster1963/solar%20and%20wind/powersupply1.jpg)

(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p558/divemaster1963/solar%20and%20wind/powersupply2.jpg)

(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p558/divemaster1963/solar%20and%20wind/shop.jpg)
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: kingbee on June 04, 2012, 09:53:40 pm
... Can you provide a lead on these sites?  I'm interested in this but am a

total novice.  I've tried to search in the past but keep ending up on sites that want to charge a fee for the information. 

If you can afford the 262 foot (80) meter tower, here is the US government’s wind speed / reliability map. 
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/community_scale.asp (http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/community_scale.asp)
Notice that only about 10% of the land east of the Mississippi River is suited for commercial wind powered electrical generation.  Even large parts of the West are unsuitable for commercial wind generated electricity.  Also notice that running up from the Appalachian mountains all the way to the Canadian border there are few if any places with enough wind to support commercial wind power generation.  In those places that do afford enough wind to support commercial generation these places are invariably on a ridge or mountain top, like the Blue Ridge, the Smoky Mountains or on top of Mount Washington.  Also notice that the generating potential falls off rapidly the further down hill you go.  The generating potential also falls off rapidly on the prevailing down wind side of the ridges.  Valleys are a non starter when it comes to wind power.
 
If you can’t afford the 262 foot tower here is a link to community or local scale power generation.  The good news is that you only need a 162 foot tower to qualify for a loan for a community scale generator.
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/community_scale.asp (http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/community_scale.asp)
I think that the states in green are participating in a Community Scale Wind Generation Program. Also if you decide to build a community scale electrical generation plant, I doubt that you will need to construct your own high tension transmission power lines any further that the nearest local sub-station.

To help make it easy, only areas with a sustained wind speed of 6.5 meters per second or greater are considered suitable for utility grade (commercial) electric generation. 

If a community sized project is un feasible here is the PROJECTED wind speed data for a residential wind turbine project.  It only requires a 30 meter 98 foot tall tower.
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/residential_scale.asp (http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/residential_scale.asp)

Finally here is the data for you state.
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/residential_scale_states.asp?stateab=wa (http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/windmaps/residential_scale_states.asp?stateab=wa)

Please read the disclaimers at the bottom of each page.

Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on June 11, 2012, 10:21:48 pm
Need a little help. I had once saw the feds had a regulation stating permits for renewable energy were limited to $150.00 max. I just got my bill for the install and they are charging me $220.00 for the permit. Anyone know where I can find the regulation again? I searched Google but not finding it. 
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: 1frozenhillbilly on July 10, 2012, 06:52:26 pm
i've been living on a generator and batteries since i moved to alaska.  i keep lookinng at solar panels but haven't had the money.  as far as wind find some place that has a wind gen going and listen to it for a while,  all of em i"ve seen are pretty niosy.  when i get a claim going up here i plan to get a hydro system.  quiet, if your source stream runs year around you have power year around.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on July 11, 2012, 02:23:39 pm
Mine is quiet, from inside the house. Outside, When the wind is 20mph or higher the turbines sound like an oslating fan. Because of codes I had to set up an isolation box so the power company can isolate me from the grid if they need to. I need to figure out how to set up my green power as the main source and the grid as backup. I think the only way to do it is with an auto transfer switch which is about $2,000.0.

We recently had a microburst come through and knocked over trees and power poles throughout the town. The wind turbines did great standing up to the winds. While the town was without power I still powered my house except for 220 loads for 6 hours until power came back up. 
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on July 12, 2012, 03:25:20 am
Fellow beeks, you’ve got some pretty impressive setups.  I’ve been toying with the idea of skipping the battery, the inverter, and the electronics and just using a windmill or two for supplement heat in the winter.  Heating elements don’t care if they’re fed DC.  Anybody direct connecting a windmill to a heating element?  Seems like a cheap way to make a few thousand watts of heat. 
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: slacker361 on July 12, 2012, 09:27:47 am
i think it would work....just have some other way of shedding the heat, a big storm might "cook" you out of your house...
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: 1frozenhillbilly on July 14, 2012, 04:38:12 pm
someone i do mechanic work for was telling me there is a system that will convert heat to 12v the way sunlight does in a pv system,  i'm looking into it.   man what would that do if i hooked it up to the chimney on my woodstove!
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: 1frozenhillbilly on September 01, 2012, 11:13:30 pm
i thought i'd give an update the woodstove thing is called a seebeck effect thermal electric generator and all the sites that sell em are afraid to put the price up.  a neighbor loaned me the solar panel that was hanging in his dad's garage,  havent seen the sun since,  (old tech panel only works in strong light).  but should help knock some of the fuel cost from the gen set.  but this winter is looking more comfortable than last,  got several cords of wood up already and should be able to get more soon as the ground freezes.  stillo researching that t.e.g.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: fshrgy99 on February 26, 2013, 07:42:55 pm
"I made my blades and hub. out of wood then aluminum. "

Hi Divemaster,

I know this is an old thread but I was wondering about how you made blades out of aluminum. I had made a vertical 3 blade rotor (kind of an eggbeater) with wooden blades a few years back. That thing spun itself absolootley silly (no load) for years til it finally self destructed during a storm. I loved it! The bonus was that it was safe at ground level and uni directional. I have been wondering ever since if I could smelt aluminum blades using popcans but think the temps needed are probably too high. Can you elaborate on your process for manufacture of aluminum blades svp?
Thanks
Dennis
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: divemaster1963 on February 27, 2013, 08:50:01 pm
"I made my blades and hub. out of wood then aluminum. "

Hi Divemaster,

I know this is an old thread but I was wondering about how you made blades out of aluminum. I had made a vertical 3 blade rotor (kind of an eggbeater) with wooden blades a few years back. That thing spun itself absolootley silly (no load) for years til it finally self destructed during a storm. I loved it! The bonus was that it was safe at ground level and uni directional. I have been wondering ever since if I could smelt aluminum blades using popcans but think the temps needed are probably too high. Can you elaborate on your process for manufacture of aluminum blades svp?
Thanks
Dennis


The process I used was I purchased aluminum stock 3/8 sheet then I cut out my blades to the desired length and dimension then used the heat knelling process to form them into the shape that I was looking for. their is some trial and error to it. heat knelling is using a torch that is low temp and suet the areas that you want to form. by heating it the molecular position of molecules in loosen to make the sheet  easier to form. just be careful with the heat and where you heat because you are basically weakening the metal. form and heat along the trailing edge so you keep  the straight along the leading edge. so they won't deform when turning.


John
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: fshrgy99 on February 27, 2013, 11:03:50 pm
Thanks for the advice. I'll let all that sit in my noggin and maybe while I'm asleep it'll turn into something I can use!  I do have a little sheet aluminum that I've been hoarding .... maybe in the spring I'll put some heat to it and watch what happens.
Thanks again, much appreciated!
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on March 20, 2013, 04:45:44 pm
Just finished an install. The customer has a similar system to mine but he has 18, 245 watt solar panels, and three wind turbines. he can run his office and barn lights completly off grid during the day but needs more batteries for night use to stay away from grid. I would post a photo but Im not too fond of Imageshack anymore.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: divemaster1963 on March 20, 2013, 09:12:41 pm
well. Monday evening was a bad one for Jones county here in Ga. we had that line of storms come thru. My wind gauge hit 90 mph before it flew away. I lost the blades to one of my turbines. It was the shorter of the two in the pictures. I made the blades my self it was a 6 foot diamerter. then tues it got better. I was at work and got a call from the police that a large swarm was in a tree. I got them. I will post on that later. but I lost no trees but alot of limbs down. we lost power for about 4 hours.


John
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on March 21, 2013, 03:37:50 pm
Hope I posted these right. This was my latest install.

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y444/shawn_co/DSCF1201_zps3dac0030.jpg)

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y444/shawn_co/DSCF1211_zpsdade449f.jpg)
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Intheswamp on March 21, 2013, 06:25:34 pm
i've been living on a generator and batteries since i moved to alaska.  i keep lookinng at solar panels but haven't had the money.  as far as wind find some place that has a wind gen going and listen to it for a while,  all of em i"ve seen are pretty niosy.  when i get a claim going up here i plan to get a hydro system.  quiet, if your source stream runs year around you have power year around.

Hydro...the cat's meow.  :th_thumbsupup:

Ed
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Mackayboi on May 23, 2013, 09:42:07 am
Solar has reached a great point where cost has lowered and quality has increased.
I have a 5 kw solar panel setup that takes up one side of the shed roof. The amount of power it generates is average 20 kilowatts each day, so if you are after a good power generation system for both on or off grid electricity supply, solar is a good option.

Wind has a lot of potential as it has the opportunity to generate at night time too.

If installing solar, make sure it's on the right direction for your location, as position is important. My 5 kw system could be generating over 28 kw per day if it was facing north here in australia.

If installing wind, make sure your location is down stream from regular wind currants. 
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Mackayboi on May 24, 2013, 10:22:41 pm
That is a nice clean setup Shawn.

Is that bottom picture of a smaller room inside the shed?

Do you know your total average output of both solar and wind combines?

Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on June 26, 2013, 02:58:37 pm
The smaller room is inside the barn and is what controls the input/output. The first month he was up and running he prodcued 698kwh. I think he will do better in the winter because the heat kills the power
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Mackayboi on June 28, 2013, 09:25:19 am
I think he will do better in the winter because the heat kills the power

While it is true that the heat on the panels reduce their efficiency, it doesn't affect the performance much at all.
Roofs where I live can get extremely hot, and the performance is still satisfactory.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on June 28, 2013, 02:37:58 pm
The customer in the picture already wants to expand. I think I will epxand him only by solar because the sun is more relaible than the wind. We are going to put in a Outback Radian inverter and probably increase his solar output to about 12kwh, turbines are runnning 1.4kwh each.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Shawn on September 25, 2013, 06:40:25 pm
On the latest install the customer produced 700kwh in the first month. I just checked his system and he is up to 5100 kwh produced since we went live in May or June.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Oblio13 on September 25, 2013, 08:24:45 pm
There's a guy who lives in a tiny house up here. The entire roof is solar panels. He's got a lithium cobalt battery, a 50-watt electric outboard, an induction hotplate, refrigerator, microwave and LED lighting. In the winter he puts it on a trailer and heads south. In the summer he tows it to the marina and has a forklift put it on pontoons. No mortgage, no utility bills.


(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c116/Oblio13/IMG_1655_zpsd10fe7a4.jpg) (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/Oblio13/media/IMG_1655_zpsd10fe7a4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on September 27, 2013, 12:12:15 am
Pretty cool!  I wonder what the tax man thinks of this. 

In Michigan, they bill us for property (structure + land) taxes in the summer and winter.  I can just see arguing this one with City Hall…….
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: PatrickMathes on February 05, 2014, 05:29:50 am
Solar has reached a great point where cost has lowered and quality has increased.
I have a 5 kw solar panel setup that takes up one side of the shed roof. The amount of power it generates is average 20 kilowatts each day, so if you are after a good power generation system for both on or off grid electricity supply, solar is a good option.

Wind has a lot of potential as it has the opportunity to generate at night time too.

If installing solar, make sure it's on the right direction for your location, as position is important. My 5 kw system could be generating over 28 kw per day if it was facing north here in australia.

If installing wind, make sure your location is down stream from regular wind currants. 

I do agree with you.. Solar is more effective and popular now a days.. Even I am thinking of adding similar system on my home roof.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on May 25, 2014, 06:21:47 pm
got any schematics diagrams and or written or video directions

have you heard about the back spike, ups the voltage considerable

jay

if your talking HHO then Ive done lots of thought and made numerous revision and enhancements mentally.
these would work but for the time an few dollars needed for parts
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on May 26, 2014, 01:37:43 pm
What is HHO?
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on May 26, 2014, 01:55:53 pm
Blue bee
you have heard of H2O =water or 1 atoms of hydrogen 2 oxygen

HHO = 2 atoms Hydrogen one oxygen it is a gas and does burn. goggle hho it will show more than i can describe

I have figured out how to make the plates with 3 times the surface area in the same area.

yes it will work

not as easy as flat plates more area and rapid release of gas

PM me if you'll comit to building one on a test bench first then acelrate when proven
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on May 26, 2014, 02:11:40 pm
I’m familiar with Stan Meyers, his VIC, his cell setup, and his electronics.  One of the nice things about being a beek, is people assume you don’t know anything.   I use it to my advantage all the time. :)

Actually Water (H2O) is a molecule of 2 hydrogen atoms covalently bonded to 1 oxygen atom.  HHO is the term usually associated with the gas that Meyers supposedly generated with his apparatus.  Namely mono-atomic hydrogen gas H (as opposed to the normal diatomic gas H2) and a non ionic HO molecule. 

Normal electrolysis generates H2 gas and O2 gas.  It consumes more electrical energy than you get gas energy out; regardless of surface area.  Meyers apparatus supposedly created H gas and HO gas with much less electrical energy in than gas energy out.  Meyers used tubes to increase his surface area, 
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on May 26, 2014, 02:52:09 pm
There ya see I don't know everything
jay

the point to this hho is, the more energy one does not buy from the Gasoline Giants 
better millage less money till they finally install the odometer tax then they will move to?
the more you can spend on bees.
gas is carbon, tied up in (wax) oil after it burns in the car engine have to remove this carbon
oil itself will not hold carbon in suspension. they found wax to capture and hold carbon.
hho on the other hand has no carbon
actually no pollutants other than heat
noticed the wether pattern changes understand how much pollutants go into the atmosphere from cars
what if a third was water. more rain, yes
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on May 26, 2014, 05:16:20 pm
Hey I agree with you about getting rid of hydrocarbon based energy asap, although some beeks will cry when coal is finally made obsolete.   

Actually the burning of pure hydrocarbons in oxygen is a pretty clean process; it just generates water vapor and carbon dioxide.  The problem is the hydrocarbons (oil/coal) are never pure and the combustion is never ideal.  Air is 78% nitrogen and when you burn air (in a car engine) the nitrogen gets hot enough to start reacting with oxygen too and forming NO and NO2.  That would be smog gases.  When you burn oil or coal you also release the contaminates mixed in with them such as sulfur and mercury.  Then there is the greenhouse gases; both CO2 and Water vapor are green house gases.  I can sure remember how it never cools off down there in humid Florida at night!  That would be water vapor holding in the heat.

So how are you increasing the surface area of your plates?  You know Meyers claimed he had to "condition" his steel alloy tubes for them to work.  Maybe that was increasing the surface area too?  Are you also using Meyer’s PWM circuit and DC power?
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Nico on May 26, 2014, 05:59:40 pm
Darn, I thought it was from a white bearded man in a red suit with the stutters! HHO,HHO, HHO.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on May 28, 2014, 06:50:08 pm
Good one chuckle chuckle
do you realy want to know?
enough to actully try it!
I can tell you
jay
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on August 27, 2014, 07:02:56 pm
there is a way I have seen it work on video

to make a permanent magnet motor to run with a small battery. how ever one can then harvest the back spike.

this spike is more powerful than the cycle many try to harvest 

yes I too would like to know with drawings

no I am not an electrician
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: rookie2531 on October 22, 2014, 05:45:41 pm
I have built some solar heaters for both air and water. The ones for air fit in the window and when the sun heats the air, a fan kicks on and blows the hot air in the window. The one I built for the water, is an old hot water tank in a solar box that fills my hot water tank in my house. That way, my tank is filled with hot water instead of cold.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on October 23, 2014, 07:12:52 am
While I applaud the solar efforts on here, it seems to me the idea of a hot water tank is fundamentally inefficient unless you super insulate it and all the copper attached to it.  While it’s nice to heat the water with something free (like the Sun), you just end up losing so much heat energy through the poorly insulated tank and the highly conductive copper radiators attached to it.  It almost seems like an exercise in futility unless you live in Florida.  A tankless water heating system (on demand heating) seems like a much more efficient use of energy, although I don’t have one.

Jay when can I get me one of those working PM motors?  Key word here is WORKING. :-D   
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Michael Bush on October 23, 2014, 08:55:05 am
When I was in Turkey every single house had a solar water heater on the roof.  Every one.  It was February.  It was snowing...
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on October 23, 2014, 04:32:17 pm
OK.....then again I might be wrong  :)
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: rookie2531 on October 23, 2014, 06:16:59 pm
Mine is in a insulated box and the lines are pex, in PVC pipe underground. It feeds the indoor hot water tank and also has a output there at the box when I want to throw hot water in the pool. It will burn you. It is only in use in the above freezing months though. I have a header/bypass setup inside to shut it down in the winter and drain it.

I would love to try the windmill, as the wind gets a blowing up on this hilltop. Now solar electric, just don't seem cost effective yet, but it is getting close.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on October 28, 2014, 09:23:48 am
While I applaud the solar efforts on here, it seems to me the idea of a hot water tank is fundamentally inefficient unless you super insulate it and all the copper attached to it.  While it’s nice to heat the water with something free (like the Sun), you just end up losing so much heat energy through the poorly insulated tank and the highly conductive copper radiators attached to it.  It almost seems like an exercise in futility unless you live in Florida.  A tankless water heating system (on demand heating) seems like a much more efficient use of energy, although I don’t have one.

Jay when can I get me one of those working PM motors?  Key word here is WORKING. :-D   


blue
you would have to build it
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on October 28, 2014, 10:45:16 am
Hey Jay, I own some wrenches, a soldering iron, and a hammer.  What else do I need?  :-D

All I need now is some plans.......
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on October 29, 2014, 09:59:12 am
resisters diodes switches wire mounting platform a small DC motor

I say small so one can prove to themselves the premise is sound, before spending lots of money
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: divemaster1963 on October 29, 2014, 11:08:57 pm
I have built two different types of hho vendor my truck. I increased millage from 17mph to 21.4mph without using a map controller with no problems for the pass 8 months. As far as wind power I build pm motors that I sell across the US. I build them from high seer Ad fan motors the ones that use the ECM motor.  I get 300-1200 watts from them each into my battery bank that runs my shop and the saw to build boxes.  My whole three buildings in the back of my property run off solar and wind. It runs my five HP radial arm saw and tablesaw plus lights. I even run my framespinner off it. I built a 7500 watt inverter from my battery bank. The batteries are high output arm sealed batteries that are use in electric vehicles. I got 8 dead ones that I reconditioned that hold 95 percent of cap. Have used them for over 4 years and still at 95 percent.

John
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BlueBee on October 30, 2014, 03:53:06 am
A PWM circuit and fresh water or a more standard electrolysis setup?  The more standard approach being DC voltage applied to water with an electrolyte to promote conductivity.  Not being critical here; anybody who’s had the ambition to actually go out and try it is good in my book. X:X  Running leaner will make better mileage and I wonder if that’s where the efficiency is really coming from?  I don’t really know. :idunno:  

Jay, I’ve got some diodes, some Shockley’s if needed, resistors, small DC motor, some FETs, and said hammer.  Now what?
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: BeeMaster2 on October 30, 2014, 07:07:01 am
I have built two different types of hho vendor my truck. I increased millage from 17mph to 21.4mph without using a map controller with no problems for the pass 8 months. As far as wind power I build pm motors that I sell across the US. I build them from high seer Ad fan motors the ones that use the ECM motor.  I get 300-1200 watts from them each into my battery bank that runs my shop and the saw to build boxes.  My whole three buildings in the back of my property run off solar and wind. It runs my five HP radial arm saw and tablesaw plus lights. I even run my framespinner off it. I built a 7500 watt inverter from my battery bank. The batteries are high output arm sealed batteries that are use in electric vehicles. I got 8 dead ones that I reconditioned that hold 95 percent of cap. Have used them for over 4 years and still at 95 percent.

John
John,
How much do you want for a wind generator?
I am running my new barn off of a 2000 watt inverter with 3 wheelchair batteries and a small solar charger. I need to increase the charging to the batteries.
Jim
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: jayj200 on October 30, 2014, 02:30:52 pm
http://www.fuellesspower.com/ (http://www.fuellesspower.com/)

blue that was over a year ago. I am old and my memory eludes me
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: Old Blue on December 31, 2014, 03:32:44 am
I have built two different types of hho vendor my truck. I increased millage from 17mph to 21.4mph without using a map controller with no problems for the pass 8 months. As far as wind power I build pm motors that I sell across the US. I build them from high seer Ad fan motors the ones that use the ECM motor.  I get 300-1200 watts from them each into my battery bank that runs my shop and the saw to build boxes.  My whole three buildings in the back of my property run off solar and wind. It runs my five HP radial arm saw and tablesaw plus lights. I even run my framespinner off it. I built a 7500 watt inverter from my battery bank. The batteries are high output arm sealed batteries that are use in electric vehicles. I got 8 dead ones that I reconditioned that hold 95 percent of cap. Have used them for over 4 years and still at 95 percent.

John

John,
Can you tell us how you recondition those batteries?

Also you are the first person I have heard of personally that has done the HHO thing on one of their vehicles.  It sounds like you have verified the benefit and are not having problems with the computer screwing it up.

This is quite interesting.  Can you elaborate a little more for us?

Old Blue.
Title: Re: Wind power or solar anyone?
Post by: divemaster1963 on January 01, 2015, 03:41:19 pm
The way I recondition the agm batteries is by flushing and flooding. I open the caps of the cells and add distilled water mixed with Epson salt. 1-3 mix. Then shake the heck out of them and drain that with all the junk out then and more fliud then place them on a 2 amp manual charger and bubble then for a week. A agm battery ma's voltage is 14.1 to charge by using the 2 amp charger I'm pushing 14.8. This brakes up the sulfates then I drain the fluid and check each cell for a 2.8 voltage. If I have that I'm good to go. Agm have a gel inside so you are basically rehydrating the gel.

As far as the hho the setup I have works for 90's model with basic computers in them. New ones require the map controller to change the values of the 4 O2 sensors. If you don't do that the computer reads a Lean r fuel mix and will add more re fuel. That will reduce milage . it is a dance you do with the computer. Don't just use the map controller allow. That will make your engine run to lean and burn it up.

John