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Author Topic: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!  (Read 3634 times)

Offline ziffabeek

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Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« on: July 19, 2011, 12:23:13 pm »
This is the story of my first split.  It’s long, I know most won't read it, but I hope it will amuse some of the older guys and might act as a cautionary tale for other newbees.
 
Inspired by TwoHoneys successful hive split, I finally carved out time on Sunday to attempt mine.  We had left a lot of honey in HNO (my big hive) so it consisted of 2 deeps packed with bees, pollen some honey and some brood, 1 medium of brood (I could never get her to move down)and 1 medium of about 30% full honey frames,  and the rest foundation.   I geared up, got my tools and my plan and headed out!  I was gonna split a hive!

First I checked on the Mississippi Queens.  They are doing well and have filled a deep and a medium and have finally started pulling the next medium.  I saw brood and beautiful new eggs sitting in the very center bottom of the cells and various stages of larva.  The flow has slowed here, but I haven’t been feeding them; they seem to have adequate stores with several full frames of honey.  They were calm and seem to be doing well.  I added a few of the drawn frames we got from harvest, replacing empty frames and let them be.  Saw 2 hive beetles being chased down but that was about it.  They look healthy, with pretty wings and they seem to have gentled a bit, as long as I am very slow and calm.  Looking good, MQH!
 
Then I moved to HNO.  I pulled off the top medium and looked at a few frames.  They have capped all of the partially capped frames we left from harvest and were festooning on the empty ones starting some really pretty foundationless comb.  They seem to still be bringing in nectar from somewhere.  They did have one piece of comb going at 90 degrees to the rest across a couple of empty frames, (weird) which I promptly cut out.  Then I set the box aside and moved to the next (broody) medium.  So far so good.  I’m feeling very beekeeperish and zen-like!

I began pulling the frames from the broody medium and find honey, some capped brood and a frame with about 4-6 queen-cups on it.  I can’t see into the cups, but I did see a couple of bees sticking their head in and out of one.   Next frame, there she is! Big and pretty in the center of a circle of bees.  Cool! Now I know where she is.  I put the frame back in the box, along with the others and set it aside.  Then I turn to the 2 deeps.

About this time I notice that the air is getting filled with more bees.  Hmmmm, well, they’re just flying, no worries.  I start looking in the next deep.  LOTS of pollen.  A little capped brood.  Can’t really see any eggs, but the stores seem good.  OW!  Ok. I got popped.  No biggie, I run wash it off and dab some almond lotion on my hands.  Little jittery, but a big breath and back into the breach!  I’m a beekeeper after all.  One little sting isn’t going to daunt me!

By this time, the bees are pretty upset.  Ok, very upset.  My zen-like, beekeeperish feeling is getting a little shaky.  I set the deep in its new position, 6 inches from the old hive facing the side.  Then I realize, I need to find a frame with eggs to make sure I leave it in the old hive.  Back to the broody medium.    OW!  Holy crap!  (insert your favorite expletive here, because I’m sure I used them all.)  These bees are now angry.  One popped me on my pinky, and I-kid-you-not, it drew blood!  Seriously! A pinprick of blood!  That one made me walk away for a bit, followed by bees that are, let’s face it, ATTACKING me. 

My zen-like feeling has completely fled, I am now in OMG panic mode!  I look back at my hive and the whole thing is torn apart and the bees are in a cloud around it.  Oh bleep.  Ok.  Deeeeep breath.  I ran and got my garden gloves.  Deeeeeeper breath.  I have to at least put them back together and I’m going to finish this, damnit! 

So.  Back into the breach.  By this time my concentration is gone and I just want to get them stacked.  The bees are loud and angry and trying vigorously to GET-THROUGH-THAT-VEIL and to the EVIL-BEEKEEPER! This is the point where I stop feeling like a beekeeper.  My Zen-like Feeling has packed her bags and moved to the next state, looking over her shoulder with wide eyes at the crazy lady she just abandoned. 

 I find the frame with the queen cups again,  peer at it long enough to convince myself that there are eggs in some of the cells (there was definitely very young larva) and put it in the first medium.  Grab the broody medium (with the queen) and try to carefully slide it onto the deep in the “new” hive position.  God willing the queen survived.  I know a lot of her servants didn’t.

The bees are in serious attack mode now.  Smoker!! Oh yeah! Smoke them!  Heh, silly me, that will help.  Iddee always says have your smoker.  I made sure it was well packed and lit when I started. Of course!  I turn to grab my smoker.  A slight, tendril of grey wisps from its spout.  Oh god. .  I swoosh ashy clear air out at a few of the bees.  Oh bleep!  Why does it always go out when I need it?

Ok.  Finish. You can’t leave it like this.  (I think I actually thought about it for a second.)  I grab the old deep and turn it 90 degrees, so the entrances of the 2 hives are facing each other.  The bees are pelting my veil and generally SCREAMING at me.  I put the first medium on top of it.  I grab the last medium and put it on the new hive and put the top on it.  Maybe that will keep some of them in.  Nope, not helping.  They are still angry. I put the empty medium of our extracted frames on the old hive.  At least I think I did.  At this point all I can think is “Close them up! Close them up!” So I can’t really remember which medium went where.  I close them up.  Finally.  I shove a leafy branch in front of both entrances and light out for the house.  A few bees give chase, but they give up pretty quickly.  Thank GOD!

As I turn to look back, I realize I was supposed to move the original hive 6 inches away from its original location.  I just turned it 90 degrees.  The entrances are now 6 inches apart.  Well, darn.  I wonder what that will do.  I ponder the cloud of bees still swarming around the 2 hives.   There is no way I’m going back into that mess tonite.  I will do it tomorrow after work.

So I spend Monday building myself back up. “It’s not that bad.”  “It was your first time.”  “You learned a few things.”  “You can fix it tonite.”  No problem.  Monday night comes and I suit up (including garden gloves.  Bud – you can call me a wimp, but I was taking NO chances!)  I got a plan.  I got the smoker going.  I got gloves.  I am ready.  This will be simple.  Just move them quick and they won’t even know it.

I set up my new cinder blocks. Get my piece of wood to give it a little slant all ready.  Get them all leveled.  I’ll just pull off the 2 top mediums and set them right there.  Won’t even take the top off.  Then slide the deep back, replace the mediums and voila!  They won’t even hardly know I was there.

So I pull off the top two mediums.  Good!  Came off fine, and not too heavy for me.  I set them aside.  I move the deep back.  The bees are a little upset now.  They remember me.  They are in the air and stinging my gloves pretty good.  That’s cool.  The gloves are working.  Stay calm.  Steady as she goes.  I check to be sure the deep is level.  Looking good.  My confidence is returning, Zen-like Feeling takes a few tentative steps back.  I can do this!  I go to pick up the 2 mediums and as I swing it to slide it onto the deep, I knock the deep slightly out of alignment.  Not bad, no cloud of bees, so I set the mediums down to straighten it again.  Second try, same thing.  darn it Liz, pick it up! What’s wrong with you?  Go for the third try.  Oh, that’s what was wrong.  I was grabbing the top medium instead of the bottom medium.  Third try and the bottom medium finally pulled away and – kerPLONK - fell off and hit the ground.  Oh bleep.  Air fills with mad bees.  I put down the top medium and step away.  I no longer feel that confidence.  Zen-like Feeling picks her bags back up and turns around again, shaking her head as she leaves.  I feel like crying.

Deeep Breath.  Back into the breach!  I get them back together- reminding myself that I was protected.  The smoker worked this time and I copiously smoked them to try and get them off while I picked up the dropped medium.  It only dropped about 18 inches and sort of slid down the side of the hive mostly. None of the frames came out or looked damaged. So I put it and the other back on.  Got it all on and leveled.  Put another branch in front of the entrance.  Went in the house and poured a glass of wine.  A big glass of wine.

That. Did. Not. Go. Well.  Needless to say, I’m feeling like a pretty crappy beekeeper.
 
And now for my questions:
  • 1. Will ya’ll allow me to remain a member given my proven inadequacies?
  • 2.   Have I doomed the bees?  Do you think they will survive said inadequacies?
  • 3.   Michael Bush said in another thread that bees know they are queenless “In about 10 minutes most know. . .  In two hours they all know. “  I’m worried that since the hives were so close for 24 hours they may have been confused or not known and I would lose some viable eggs in that timeframe (for queen making).  Do you think the general disruption of the hive I created will prevent them from making a queen?
  • 4.   How long do you leave the hives facing each other?  I pretty much want to leave them where they are, but rotate them back to facing east in the long run.  How long should I wait to do this (assuming this endeavor is successful and/or they don’t all just leave.)
  • 5.   I feel like (and the bees probably pray that) I should leave them be for a bit.  How long can I wait before needing to go back in and check on progress?

Ok, well, thanks for the read.  I think I’ll go cry in my honey now. ;0)

love,
ziffa

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 01:33:37 pm »
>    * 1. Will ya’ll allow me to remain a member given my proven inadequacies?

I have no control over that, but I would guess yes.  Nothing in the by-laws says you can't panic.

>    * 2.   Have I doomed the bees? 

Of course not.

>Do you think they will survive said inadequacies?

Of course.

>    * 3.   Michael Bush said in another thread that bees know they are queenless “In about 10 minutes most know. . .  In two hours they all know. “  I’m worried that since the hives were so close for 24 hours they may have been confused or not known and I would lose some viable eggs in that timeframe (for queen making).  Do you think the general disruption of the hive I created will prevent them from making a queen?

It would be difficult to prevent them from making a queen.  You would have to work at it.

>    * 4.   How long do you leave the hives facing each other?

If you have some reason to change the way they face, just do it a little at a time.  Like 45 degrees max.

>  I pretty much want to leave them where they are, but rotate them back to facing east in the long run.  How long should I wait to do this (assuming this endeavor is successful and/or they don’t all just leave.)

Whenever you like.  But you might want to wait a few days and swap hives as the queenright side will get more bees.

>    * 5.   I feel like (and the bees probably pray that) I should leave them be for a bit.  How long can I wait before needing to go back in and check on progress?

A month would be good.  By then the new queen should be laying.

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Offline stella

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 02:01:44 pm »
You can stay under one condition....

Keep sharing your entertaining stories!
Im sorry it didnt go well Ziffa, but I sure enjoyed reading your post.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 02:13:24 pm »
after having met you, i can picture the whole thing.   :-D  thanks for the laugh!!

you are not the first, nor will you be the last, to have one or two or several disasters at the hives.  i find the bees to be more twitchy when there is honey involved.  they will protect their stores.  when you open multiple hives, they feel threated by the chance of robbing.  they are not only mad at you, but mad at the other bees.

i find it helps to take one or two extra boxes out and a sharpie.  you can pull frames that you think you might want and put them in those extra boxes with a lid.  mark the frames as you go so that if you don't want them, you can put them back into the donor hives.  smoke everything  and only deal with one hive at a time.  sometimes you have to let them settle between openings. 

remember to smoke your stings also.  one sting leads to another...but you know that  :evil:

Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline D Semple

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 02:29:22 pm »
    OW!  Holy crap!  (insert your favorite expletive here, because I’m sure I used them all.)  These bees are now angry.  One popped me on my pinky, and I-kid-you-not, it drew blood!  Seriously! A pinprick of blood!  That one made me walk away for a bit, followed by bees that are, let’s face it, ATTACKING me. 

My zen-like feeling has completely fled, I am now in OMG panic mode!  I look back at my hive and the whole thing is torn apart and the bees are in a cloud around it.  Oh bleep.  the queen survived.  I know a lot of her servants didn’t.

The bees are in serious attack mode now.  Smoker!! Oh yeah! Smoke them!  Heh, silly me, that will help.  Iddee always says have your smoker.  I made sure it was well packed and lit when I started. Of course!  I turn to grab my smoker.  A slight, tendril of grey wisps from its spout.  Oh god. .  I swoosh ashy clear air out at a few of the bees.  Oh bleep!  Why does it always go out when I need it?


 I no longer feel that confidence.  Zen-like Feeling picks her bags back up and turns around again, shaking her head as she leaves.  I feel like crying.

  • 1. Will ya’ll allow me to remain a member given my proven inadequacies?
   

 :lau: :lau: :lau: :lau: :lau:

I think you just became a member!

Thanks for the laugh.

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 02:35:35 pm »
Ziffa, next time be SURE somebody videos you at the hives.  This story would be priceless on video!

Offline AliciaH

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 03:11:58 pm »
Ziffa, that was a hilarious story!  I'm sorry that your zen took flight, I hate that when it happens!  It was just rotten luck that your bees were territorial that day; does not make for a calming experience in the best of circumstances!  But, hey, look at it like this - the next split will be so easy!

Offline bulldog

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 04:06:23 pm »
sorry to take such pleasure in anothers misfortune, but that was pretty funny  :-D . but seriously one newbee to another, i just did a split that didn't go much better than yours. let me tell you, when i removed the frame with the queen, they knew it pretty quick. they were fairly calm at first and then all heck broke loose, but by this time i had two collapsed honey combs and my gloves, smoker etc were covered with honey. so if the powers that be decide to strip you of your membership, i'm sure i'll be joining you soon.  :-D
Confucius say "He who stand on toilet is high on pot"

Offline yockey5

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 04:23:39 pm »
ROFLMAO!!!!! Priceless!

Offline rbinhood

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 04:27:24 pm »
Not many will openly admit too it but it has happened to everyone at sometime or the other, if it hasn't they are not beekeepers.
Only God can make these two things.....Blood and Honey!

Offline ziffabeek

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 05:47:12 pm »
Thanks for the comments guys!  Yeah, I figure the best way to get over discouragement is to laugh at yourself.  :-D

Michael  - as always thanks for the info, advice, links and encouragement!  I was kind of worried that I had really messed them up for good.  Thanks for the reassurance. 

KathyP - YES! Organization was what I lacked, and extra space.  I realized, right when I remembered that I hadn't set aside a frame with eggs, that I was totally disorganized.  I went in knowing what I wanted to do, but I didn't really know how or the order of the steps.  My plan was way too rough.  I think I might write it down next time!  And I am looking forward to the day when I have adequate number of boxes to do manipulations smoothly.  When does that come?  :-P  An extra box or two would have been very helpful.

Bulldog - I am pretty sure that I can time the downhill slide to the moment I found the queen and put her off to the side.  They pretty much went berserk after that.  Next time, I will move her after I have everything situated the way I want! Glad to know I'm not the only one who's first time went rough.  If they kick us out we can start our own site - beemistakes.com! :D

And bluebee - if there was a video, I'd send it to JP to set to some Keystone Cops music.  That would REALLY be funny! :lol

Thanks again everybody! I feel much better.  I'll let you know how the next one goes!

love,
ziffa

Offline buzzbee

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 06:05:59 pm »
Ziffa,
This saga just makes you a "seasoned" member!! :)

Offline iddee

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2011, 06:39:47 pm »
Wonderful job. The only difference in it and what we do is, we don't tell it.

The only unforgivable thing you did was leave the camera in the house.  :-* :-D

The bees will be fine. Turn the hives 45 degrees this weekend, then check for queen cells and turn another 45 next Tues. or Wed.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Askrub

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2011, 06:55:44 pm »
Ziffa,

I would imagine that most of the beeks in this forum had the same sort of experience in the beginning.


Offline bud1

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 07:18:51 pm »
 knew you were tough gal. sure proud of you. crap happens but you had the guts to stick with it til you got her done. keep their heads down with the smoker and hang tite
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Offline schawee

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2011, 12:12:24 am »
go girl,i would have love to see a video of this :-D .     ...schawee
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Offline vmmartin

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2011, 12:20:04 am »
Sorry it didn't go so well Liz.  At least you hung in there and I am sure it was and will continue to be a learning experience.  Don't beat yourself up too much.  Just do the best you can and let the rough edge drag.

Offline Scadsobees

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2011, 12:42:59 am »
Ha! Great story!
We don't tell new members this, but you can't officially be a member until you've been through an episode like this!! :-D  Welcome to the club!

Those bees can take almost as much as any of us can dish them and still come out swinging.  Sure, mistakes made, and maybe there will be problems down the road, but on the bright side, one hive will end up with a queen and if the other doesn't...well then you can practice combining!!  They should be fine, though.

It is a good thing you caught them when you did, with queen cells it sounds like they may have been planning a swarm in a week or two!

One thing I've found - when going through the brood nest, take boxes off and start at the BOTTOM.  When rifling through brood that is above brood that you still need to examine, it will cause the lower brood bees to be far more sensitive and defensive.  Better to take all the boxes off till you get to the bottom, start there, then put the boxes back on and examine them at that time.

Rick
Rick

Offline annette

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2011, 12:58:47 am »
I can't count how many times I got confused while trying to do multiple manipulations with the supers. The first time I tried to do a split I had the hive open, supers and frames all over the place and the bees were getting pissy. I totally lost it and got so confused I just closed everything back up and went home and cried. You can look at my beginning posts from 2008 and see how many times I cried and cried and felt so miserable.

I beat myself up just like you, but members here on this forum helped me get it all together.

You are doing great Ziffa.

Relax and don't worry, it will all come together soon enough

Annette

Offline ziffabeek

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Re: Ugh! - Klueless, Klutzy, Katastrophy!
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 10:42:55 am »
Thanks for the good words folks.  I am feeling much better about the whole thing.  I don't know where I'd be without this board!

Rick - that is exactly what I was thinking, as well.  I think it is very good advice and I will definitely try that next time.

Iddee - Thank you!  I was thinking about you the whole time, "He's going to kill me if I mess this up!" Thanks for the kind words and I will do as you say. :)

Bud - You know, better than most, that I'll dive right in! lol. I'm going to have to work on my smoking skills.

And thanks to everybody letting me know I'm not alone! It's funny, when you read the "how's" and "why's" or when you watch the more experienced people's videos, it all makes sense and seems so simple!  Then you get in the middle and remember - I have no clue what I'm doing!  It is a challenge.  But I love a challenge.  And I love that the bees keep you humble.

I'm already itching to see if they are building queens cells!  Guess I'll be taking a peek sooner than I thought!

Love you guys!  Thanks so much!

ziffa

 

anything