Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => DISEASE & PEST CONTROL => Topic started by: fiveson on April 16, 2005, 08:58:53 pm
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I was nosing around and read an article that said they have found a fungus that kills mites totally. It was developed at the W Va University in association with the Dept of Agriculture (I believe). Now they are "weaponizing" (my word) it for commercial distribution.
I wrote to the researcher volunteering to beta test but he wrote and said it was now in the hands of the companies trying to get it into the commercial mainstream
So - pardon the expression - help is on the way!
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In the future you might be able to say I told you so but.... do you really believe it is going to see the light of day? Its gonna be lost somewhere until everybody forgets about it.
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Yes, this is a fungus that in the past has been used to control termites. Now it seems that it has potential in the beekeeping world. The problem with it right now is that it would cost about $50 a strip to purchase. They are looking for a manufacturer to make it cost effective and appliable for and by beekeepers. Unfortunately, as Jerry has alluded to, if it is effective and wipes out the mites as reported, who (what manufacturer) is going to want to spend all that money developing the product only to need it for a couple generations untill all the mites are dead (shooting yourself in the foot for repeat business)? Big business, go figure! :roll:
I firmly believe that they have a cure for the common cold, but they can't release it because a third of our economy would fall flat without the need for Robitussin, vicks, tylenol, halls, niquill, etc. etc. etc.!
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They should still develope it to wipe out all mites, bye :)
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According to people "in the know" on beesource there have been problems duplicating the original results and there are still all the problems of getting approval and getting it maufactured. The fungus, which used to be available for Termites, is no longer on the market.
I wouldn't count on it until it's actually available and you try it to see if it works.
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Well you may be right - but using your logic we would still have Polio.
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>but using your logic we would still have Polio
I'm not sure I follow you? My logic is that when it's available, it will be available, but right now it is not available and currently it does not appear it will be available anytime soon and there is some question as to how effective it will be. When it is available, I'm game to try it and see what it does and if it works. In fact I tried to buy it as the termite remedy to try it, but it was no longer available.
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Polio would have crippled the whole system.
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Yes, this is a fungus that in the past has been used to control termites.... Unfortunately, as Jerry has alluded to, if it is effective and wipes out the mites as reported, who (what manufacturer) is going to want to spend all that money developing the product only to need it for a couple generations untill all the mites are dead (shooting yourself in the foot for repeat business)?
Well, a young upstart company that wants to make some relatively quick money would...If it would take the time to make this fungus, and wipe out the mites , it could make a pound of money...not much more, but a pound nonetheless. And being the company that wants new equipment, or a company that wants to be known as a cureal for various agricultural diseases, that can be rather prestigous.
Shoot, if I was working in a hospital, I would be talking to some microbiolgist and asking him how to grow this fungus independantly for my hives and then I would administer it to my hives. It seems to me that some hospitals could manufacture some small amounts from thier own labs for the beekeepers to produce some outside revenue for the hospital. It they are good at growing Staph and gonerehia, it seems to me that they should be able to grow this fungus. And in the process, get some money outside of the US goverment's medicare insurance.
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here's a little info
http://www.ghorganics.com/Saving%20Bees%20Fungus%20Found%20To%20Attack%20Varroa%20Mites.htm
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http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000272.html
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002754.html
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002405#000000
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Hey, guys,
This bio spore is relatively everywhere in the enviorment. So to use it as a weapon against mites is pretty benign to the enviorment, and to humans and animals and most of all, to bees..
If you could find some way to collect ...say 100-1000 mites and place them in a baby jar, and introduce this spore into the jar, and keep the thing warm for 48 hours [and by 'warm' probably setting it on top of the refrigerator will do], and add sterile water of say 1 quart, you should have enough of this spore for many sheets of hand towels, enough to treat a large number of hives, ie 25-50 fairly easily. [This is assuming that you use the solution as a soaking agent on those towels and applied them wet tothe hives.]
So, how hard is it to find this spore growing on the body of a dead mite?
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(what manufacturer) is going to want to spend all that money developing the product only to need it for a couple generations untill all the mites are dead (shooting yourself in the foot for repeat business)? Big business, go figure! Rolling Eyes
I firmly believe that they have a cure for the common cold, but they can't release it because a third of our economy would fall flat without the need for Robitussin, vicks, tylenol, halls, niquill, etc. etc. etc.!
My comment about polio still existing with that logic was adressing this comment. I doubt of the industry that mites support is a huge cash cow - or at least has any organized or coordinated conspiratorial body behind it.
I also found a site that sells an 'organic non toxic" soap that works on body lice etc through some sort of enzymic action. I wonder if spraying the bees with it would kill the mites but not the bees!?? That would be worth an experiment maybe?? Here is what the manufacturer says
"A unique organic blend of enzymes specifically designed to assist in removing and eliminating dirt, germs, bacteria, odors and pests including lice, scabies, crabs, fleas, mites and more, naturally!"
The link is here: http://www.naturalginesis.com/id33.htm if it kills scabies and human lice - why not Varroa!???
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I also found a site that sells an 'organic non toxic" soap that works on body lice etc through some sort of enzymic action. I wonder if spraying the bees with it would kill the mites but not the bees!?? That would be worth an experiment maybe??
A little soap in water is the best way to kill bees when you need to, so I have my doubts it will work.
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I am sure you are right. I wonder though if at some point there is enough of this stuff to kill mites but not bees? It would be interesting to try on like four or five bees at a time. I feel myself slipping into my Mengele mode.....
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there are a lot of rumors floating around about metarhyzium. In some laboratory tests it has been effective in varroa control. The ambient conditions required for the fungus to thrive in the beehive however are not easily replicated and a stable and reliable method of delivery hasn't been developed (last I checked). Unfortunately for you and I, the ARS saw fit to give the Patent rights for the development of the treatment to Souix Honey Association. Their intentions are to offer any future mite control first to their own members and then to other beekeepers at who knows what cost?
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I strongly disagree that anyone should kill all mites. It is clearly nessesary to attempt to rid the U.S. and Australia and anywhere else that the mites are not native but, many mites can't even feed on Apis Mellifera bees. Think about it, only two species of Varroa can and only one species of trechial mite can. Some species of Bumble bees and other carpender bees thrive with mites.
NOTE: I strongly agree that all Varroa (Varroa destructor, Varroa jabasconi) mites outide of their native area and trechial mites (Acarpis woodi) should be eliminated.
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why can't we buy the metarizium they use for termites and put in a beehive then we wouldn't have to wait. has anyone done this? I also read that they use the same fungus to spray grasshopper type locusts in AUSTRAlia under the name bio guard or bio something. if it is the same fungus it should not be too hard to get
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If it were just that easy/ How do we get to try some of that
metarizium they use for termites
!!!??
I say its worth a controlled test. At worst we lose a few bees (already the worst) - at best we lose no bees!
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>why can't we buy the metarizium they use for termites and put in a beehive then we wouldn't have to wait. has anyone done this?
Because the termite treatment is no longer on the market.
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Since this spore is found virtually everywhere, I went looking for where this stuff is found....
And it is a common problem pest for
grapes......
So, if you were to go to a wine vineyard, and get some of thier composed leaves, and poor this between your bee boxes, you might save your bees, if you have mights...
And I am thinking that if this works, the best place to put this composted material is between the 1st and 2nd brood boxes....
The bees clean this up, and move it out side and the spore is spread thru the hive....maybe not in the concentration that we could have but possibly enough to make a difference in your dying hive. .....
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It may be pulled off of one market, but not all. Even DDT is still available in some countries...I noticed Finsky say that oxalic acid is way cheaper than here in Canada. We are all markets of supply and demand for pharmaceutikill companies. Could we put our collective heads together and find out where in the world this fungus can be found commercially, perhaps someone out there has access??? I would like to try this. If anyone lives in an area where this wonder fungus is still sold, I would like to source some. Unless its illegal in Canada OF COURSE, then just simply send me private relpy....
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Beware of the highly prized "silver bullet".
Every time we try to release this to eliminate that, we cause some other unexpected problem. After some period of time, we realize that this didn't really eliminate that but to make matters worse, we now need a new magic bullet to correct the unexpected problem.
Hate to be a cold shower but varroa, kudzu and ailanthus are all here to stay! :evil:
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Eradicating varroa would require worldwide co-operation. It would be difficult to co-ordinate all the beekeepers of one country, even.
Andrew
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Since this spore is found virtually everywhere, I went looking for where this stuff is found....
And it is a common problem pest for
grapes......
So, if you were to go to a wine vineyard, and get some of thier composed leaves, and poor this between your bee boxes, you might save your bees, if you have mights...
And I am thinking that if this works, the best place to put this composted material is between the 1st and 2nd brood boxes....
The bees clean this up, and move it out side and the spore is spread thru the hive....maybe not in the concentration that we could have but possibly enough to make a difference in your dying hive. .....
Back to top
It may be pulled off of one market, but not all. Even DDT is still available in some countries...I noticed Finsky say that oxalic acid is way cheaper than here in Canada. We are all markets of supply and demand for pharmaceutikill companies. Could we put our collective heads together and find out where in the world this fungus can be found commercially, perhaps someone out there has access??? I would like to try this. If anyone lives in an area where this wonder fungus is still sold, I would like to source some. Unless its illegal in Canada OF COURSE, then just simply send me private relpy....
WE ALL NEED TO START GROWING GRAPES...........................
put our collective heads together :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I read the same article on the fungus killing varroa mites. My luck is I have a stuggling grape vine. I think I'll get a few more starts and start composting grape leaves.
While on the subject of mites, I'm trying an experiment. I've planted mint around my beehives. Mint is one of many sources of menthol and I'm breaking sprigs and laying them in the tops of the hives. It's natural and shouldn't tint the honey but it's too soon to tell on that score but even if it does who would object to mint flavored honey? Besides it ought to go good as a glaze on a rack of lamb. The added benefit is flowers for the bees. I have a creek running through my property and it has mint growing all along it--it was a simple matter to transplant some.
Anyone want to join in on the experiment?
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A thought just occurred to me. Since I use fresh green grass or leaves both as a filter and to cool the smoke maybe I should use the mint in the same fashion.
Every puff of the billows would render a dose of mite treatment.
What do you think?
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And at Varroa and Rhubard? in the General Beekeeping forum we now find Oxalic acid in rhubard leaves. Mother Nature seems to be the way to go. All natural solutions is what I'm putting my faith in--we're killing the world with chemicals.
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I'm sure the bees would smoke themselves with rhubard if we let them. :)
Maybe the bees don't NEED to be treated. I find the bees quite capable of taking care of themselves. This is the fifth year I've been using small cell/natural cell size. Some of the hives have not been treated at all for five years and the last three official inspections by the State of Nebraska have certified that they found no Varroa. I HAVE Varroa, of course, but early in the spring when the inspections were done, there were few enough that they have not found any since I've been having them inspected, which is the last three years.
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We are working with metarhizium fungus in Australia for trying to control SHB larva and pupa in the soil.
A few facts about the fungus. It works very well in laboratory conditions where you can control humidity. Humidity is the most required element for it to be successful. Most feild trials fail to live up to first expectations.
Secondly there are many very specific strains of the metarhizium. They occur naturally with most insects. It the way you use or apply it that is important.
Like everything developed it may aid in part of a total bio-control program, but anyone thinking that it will wipe out the pest is dreaming. There are still plenty of locusts in Australia, this year they resorted to spraying fipronil again as the fungus isn't quick enough unless humidity is perfect.
There is no such thing as a cure-all
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It may be pulled off of one market, but not all. Even DDT is still available in some countries...I noticed Finsky say that oxalic acid is way cheaper than here in Canada. We are all markets of supply and demand for pharmaceutikill companies. Could we put our collective heads together and find out where in the world this fungus can be found commercially, perhaps someone out there has access??? I would like to try this. If anyone lives in an area where this wonder fungus is still sold, I would like to source some. Unless its illegal in Canada OF COURSE, then just simply send me private relpy....
The reason why you can not get a strain of this stuff in the US is because it is concidered a biological and can be used as a weapon. The only way you can get this stuff is if you are a lab. ....or participate in a university study...
Currently, Fiji is using this biolgical for beetles...
" Roy Masamdu, Principal Entomologist for PNG’s National Agricultural Research Institute (NARI) supervises TBM activities in PNG. Mr. Masamdu says, in PNG, the beetle is a pest to 15 economic plant species including taro. He says the main control method now tested in PNG is a natural enemy of the beetle and is not a chemical-based pesticide. It is a fungus that occurs naturally in the soil called Metarhizium. The fungus grows on and kills the beetle. Present trials will find out how much of the fungus can be applied per plant to reduce beetle damage. This is a promising and sustainable method of taro beetle management."
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I recently asked Dr Mike Hood of Clemson University what the status of this was...
here is his reply:
Dear Phil,
To my knowledge, the investigators are still continuing to work on the
application of the product inside the beehive. It is good to make a
discovery of a method to control a pest but getting it packaged and in a
saleable form is another issue and I suspect they are still working on that
aspect. This is my opinion only. I would be surprised if the product is
available real soon but you never know.
Mike