Im new and confused

[samuils]

Hi, as mentioned Im new and confused about space for bees.  I am looking at some 8 frame medium hives, it says it has 2 supers.  Is it enough? I am getting a package 3lb soon.

Also, how do I tell when to add supers?  I am so worried  :(

While Im on the subject does anyone have a link where I can buy a CD that would maybe walk me through step by step?

Thank you in advance 

[Michael Bush]

One box is enough to get you through the first two weeks.   You'll need more.  In the end you'll need probably seven boxes for each hive in a good year.

When what they have is 80% full you can double the space...

[indypartridge]

I am so worried  :(

Stop worrying. This is supposed to be fun!

While Im on the subject does anyone have a link where I can buy a CD that would maybe walk me through step by step?

Go to Michael's site and read everything. It's free.
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

[JackM]

Go to Michael's site and read everything. It's free.
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

 

I get my package in 2 weeks and I am not worried at all.  I agree with the above, questions will be answered.

[Intheswamp]

One box is enough to get you through the first two weeks.   You'll need more.  In the end you'll need probably seven boxes for each hive in a good year.

When what they have is 80% full you can double the space...

Just trying to keep down any confusion (I'm full of it!...and other things. :-\)...The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive.  Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box.  When the top box is 80% full then add another box.     ...did I get that about right, Michael? :)

As others have mention, check out Michael's website...loads of information there.  Mike has also written a book, "The Practical Beekeeper"...in both a single edition hardback and a 3-volume set of paperbacks...it is basically his website in print (nice).  He has a wealth of general beekeeping advice there with added information on using 8-frame medium hives of which a lot of other books/websites give little mention.  Another book that is very good for a beginner to get a grasp of the basics from is the new "First Lessons In Beekeeping" by Keith Delaplane...this book has been in print since 1917(?) by C.P. Dadant and gone through many revisions.  In my beginner opinion the latest revision by Delaplane is very good...great content and photos.

Best wishes on your new adventure!
Ed

[Kathyp]

check out youtube for videos on hiving your package, etc.  there is also a beemaster facebook page and folks are sharing stuff over there.  beemaster has done some videos that are on youtube and are good.

take a deep breath.  relax and enjoy  :-)  if it helps, i have been known to take a good shot of something strong before digging into new projects   ;)

[FRAMEshift]

if it helps, i have been known to take a good shot of something strong before digging into new projects   ;)

Yes, this is the companion book to Michael Bush's "The Practical Beekeeper".   Kathy's book is called "The Tipsy Beekeeper." 

:cheer:  :devilbanana:

[Kathyp]

naw....bees don't do it for me.  twitchy colts will!

[mikecva]

I do mediums also. It takes 3 boxes for the bee colony and stores for the winter. I use 2 - 3 supers for honey (which I would not expect the first year), that makes 5-6 boxes per hive. I also use a screened bottom board, inter cover and outer cover. I personally like using top feeders but you can easily start with gallon bags of 1:1 sugar/water to feed new packages. (3 gallons water added to 25# of sugar will yield 5 gallons of 1:1). The bees will build up the hive using pollen, and stores (honey) when the nectar flow is present (around here that is mid May onward, but who knows this year.)

Please concider joining a local bee club, they can give you lots of local advice  -Mike

[stella]

I started last spring with a 3 pound package. I used 2 8 frame deeps (one at a time as needed) and they were good for the year. I will tell you that they got very heavy towards the end of the season when they were full of honey and brood etc. Probably around 80 to 100 pounds. So going down to the second box for inspection was a bit tough on the back.( And Im no frail little thing.) This year I switched to mediums for my second hive and will elevate the hive more to reduce the amount of bending when lifting.

Watch youtube videos for package installation info. Then make sure someone records your installation so you can watch it afterwards. You will love watching it! It is so exciting to install them. Just remember to breath and enjoy the moment.

Congrats.

[Intheswamp]

<snip>Then make sure someone records your installation so you can watch it afterwards. You will love watching it! It is so exciting to install them. Just remember to breath and enjoy the moment.

Congrats.

:)  I usually tell folks not to forget to exhale. ;)

[Michael Bush]

>The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive.  Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box.  When the top box is 80% full then add another box.     ...did I get that about right, Michael?

No.  If I had two boxes and between them they are 80% full I'd add two more boxes.   If I have four boxes and between them all they are 80% full I'd add four more boxes... assuming, of course that things are still building and the flow isn't over.

[FRAMEshift]

>The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive.  Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box.  When the top box is 80% full then add another box.     ...did I get that about right, Michael?

No.  If I had two boxes and between them they are 80% full I'd add two more boxes.   If I have four boxes and between them all they are 80% full I'd add four more boxes... assuming, of course that things are still building and the flow isn't over.

But when do you hit the queen laying limit?  She can lay a maximum of 1400 eggs per day.  If the deep frames are 2/3 brood, that would be about one frame every three days?  So she can lay a maximum of 7 frames in 21 days and then the brood is emerging and more space is opening up.  How do hives ever get to 20 frames of brood? 

[Michael Bush]

>But when do you hit the queen laying limit?  She can lay a maximum of 1400 eggs per day.

Between 1,000 and 5,000 depending... but what do I care.  I just want to give them room.  As long as they keep using up that room, I want to give them more.  Whether they fill it with brood or honey I still want to give them plenty of room...

>  If the deep frames are 2/3 brood, that would be about one frame every three days?  So she can lay a maximum of 7 frames in 21 days and then the brood is emerging and more space is opening up.  How do hives ever get to 20 frames of brood? 

A really good queen lays a lot more than 1,000 eggs a day.  3,000 is much more likely.  I'm sure someone has tried to count on more than one occasion, but I'm also sure it varies greatly.  More than 4000 wouldn't surprise me but try a google search on:

bees queen "2000 eggs per day"

and you'll get 131,000 hits. If you do the same with:

bees queen "1000 eggs per day"

you get 25,000 hits...

bees queen "3000 eggs per day"

gets 18,000 hits...

bees queen "4000 eggs per day"

gets 39,400,000 hits

bees queen "5000 eggs per day"

gets 36,000,000 hits and quite a few are studies...

[Intheswamp]

>The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive.  Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box.  When the top box is 80% full then add another box.     ...did I get that about right, Michael?

No.  If I had two boxes and between them they are 80% full I'd add two more boxes.   If I have four boxes and between them all they are 80% full I'd add four more boxes... assuming, of course that things are still building and the flow isn't over.

Ok, I'm striking out here lately. :)  I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

Ed

[Jim134]

Hi, as mentioned Im new and confused about space for bees.  I am looking at some 8 frame medium hives, it says it has 2 supers.  Is it enough? I am getting a package 3lb soon.

Also, how do I tell when to add supers?  I am so worried  :(

While Im on the subject does anyone have a link where I can buy a CD that would maybe walk me through step by step?

Thank you in advance  

    You need 20 frames of deeps (9 5/8") for a brood nest or  
    30 frames of mediums (6 5/8") for a brood nest


   Just my $0.02


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Michael Bush]

>Ok, I'm striking out here lately. Smiley  I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

If you have four boxes 80% covered in bees and full of honey and brood four more are easily guarded.

[Intheswamp]

>Ok, I'm striking out here lately. Smiley  I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

If you have four boxes 80% covered in bees and full of honey and brood four more are easily guarded.

So if you have 3.2 full boxes of bees and honey the bees can safely guard 7.8 boxes?  Before I sound like I'm trying to be argumentative I want to say that I'm really trying to just get a grip on what a safe number of empty boxes is.  It seems I hear horror stories of hives being overrun by shb because there wasn't enough bees to *cover* the territory.  Plus, being in the deep south I'm a bit cautious.

I'm just starting out and wondering when to add another 8-frame med box for the bees to start drawing.  If they can guard it ok I'll go ahead and throw another box on (I've got two 8-frame mediums for one hive...and a 10-frame deep and 8-frame med for the other two hives).

Thanks,
Ed

[Jim134]

>Ok, I'm striking out here lately. Smiley  I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

If you have four boxes 80% covered in bees and full of honey and brood four more are easily guarded.

So if you have 3.2 full boxes of bees and honey the bees can safely guard 7.8 boxes?  Before I sound like I'm trying to be argumentative I want to say that I'm really trying to just get a grip on what a safe number of empty boxes is.  It seems I hear horror stories of hives being overrun by shb because there wasn't enough bees to *cover* the territory.  Plus, being in the deep south I'm a bit cautious.

I'm just starting out and wondering when to add another 8-frame med box for the bees to start drawing.  If they can guard it ok I'll go ahead and throw another box on (I've got two 8-frame mediums for one hive...and a 10-frame deep and 8-frame med for the other two hives).

Thanks,
Ed

 You add a (one) new box when bees have use 75% to 80% of the comb.


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Michael Bush]

>So if you have 3.2 full boxes of bees and honey the bees can safely guard 7.8 boxes?

If it is full of bees, yes.

>  Before I sound like I'm trying to be argumentative I want to say that I'm really trying to just get a grip on what a safe number of empty boxes is.  It seems I hear horror stories of hives being overrun by shb because there wasn't enough bees to *cover* the territory.  Plus, being in the deep south I'm a bit cautious.

Well, I'm not in a place with SHB problems, so you may have to take that into account.  But if I don't double the space, I'd never get all my outyards worked.

>I'm just starting out and wondering when to add another 8-frame med box for the bees to start drawing.  If they can guard it ok I'll go ahead and throw another box on (I've got two 8-frame mediums for one hive...and a 10-frame deep and 8-frame med for the other two hives).

The proportion of adding one eight frame box when they have 80% of one eight frame box full is the same as adding four boxes when they have four boxes 80% full.

[Intheswamp]

Thanks for your patience, Michael.  I think we do have to take into account regional locations in regards to shb.  I can see your need for adding extra boxes at one time.  Be thankful you are in an area without shb problems and don't have to deal with them.  I was out the other evening late, had done my inspections (at least to my newbee, inept ability) and was standing behind the row of hives.  It was dusk.  I noticed two or three small bugs flying in the area immediately behind two of the hives.  I caught one and sure enough, beetles trying to get into the hive at dusk.  I killed one but I know two got away (and probably some I didn't see).  :whip:

I understand proportions. :)  The hives are currently two boxes each... one with two 8-frame mediums and two hives with one 10-frame deep plus an 8-frame mediums each.  One hive started out as a single 8-frame medium, the other two started out as single 10-frame deeps.  So far I've added an 8-frame medium to each one.  I'll inspect in a day or two and see how far along they are with the added mediums (they've been drawing them out pretty good and even storing a little nectar in pollen).  I've got three more mediums to add to them if they're ready for them.

Ed

[FRAMEshift]

Intheswamp, I agree that SHB are a nasty invention.  I suspect that a major factor with SHB is the type soil you have.  Since the larvae have to go to ground to pupate, the soil type can affect the completion of their life cycle.  We have two bee yards, one in the Chapel Hill area and one north of Greensboro.  The yard that has churt soil has a few SHB.  My yard has red clay soil and I have never seen a SHB here.

It's always seemed odd to me that folks say you should put your hives in the sun to reduce SHB, but the worst SHB is in the sunniest parts of the country.   I think that's because the hottest areas also have the most sand.... like Florida and South Alabama.  So do you have sandy soil?  I'll bet that North Alabama, in the red clay piedmont belt, has less of a SHB problem.

[BlueBee]

I haven’t seen SHB here (thank God), but I have never seen any bugs that just gave up living because they couldn’t find a perfect place to pupate.  Wax moths will drill into anything to pupate.  If they can’t drill, they simply pupate in the open.  I've raised large silk moths and tomato worms that do the same thing.  Normally that would pupate underground, but if all they have is a rubbermaid, they pupate in the bare rubbermaind.  They don't really seem to care.   

Pupae still need air to live, but it is minimum.  If the soil hypothesis holds water, maybe the clay soil + water clogs their breathing holes (spiracles) more than a sandy loam? 

Sounds like a good science fair project for some kid  :-D

[Intheswamp]

FRAMEshift, I really think (from excess reading, no personal experience here being the newbee that I am) that the "full sun" recommendation is for moisture reasons.  I think that the more arid the conditions around the hive the less hospitable it appears to the adult beetles seeking a place to raise their kids.  I think that the beetles have been around long enough to know that they need a close by soil that is useable by the larvae.  I think ground moisture is also important to the beetles. 

Chert soil?  I take it is a type of sandy soil (ground up chert?).  I've heard it elsewhere that a hardpack clay is good in keeping down shb numbers.  Sandy, on the other hand, isn't so good....naturally I've got my hives in a terraced field with plenty of sandy/silty soil...probably 12-16 inch on top of clay which is plenty deep for the larvae to drill down into.  :(  I'm seriously considering ordering some nematodes to treat the area with.

I've got my hives spaced four feet apart so there won't be much shade except for directly beneath the hives.  And full sun just about all day long.  I've got an area where we set a mobile home up for my mother-in-law that has just a small layer of topsoil over clay (used the rest to build the mobile home pad)...just don't think she'd like a bunch of bee hives in her backyard.  :lol:

BlueBee, I hope you don't ever have to deal with the beetles...and I'm saying this having dealt with them only a small amount so far.  But from listening to others...they're killers.  As for the wax moths, have you tried Bt to protect your hives and combs?  I'm treating all of my frames and woodenware...figured I'd start out with spores available and see how they do. 

I don't think it's thing about clogging the shb's breathing but it's actual ability to burrow down into the soil...if it's to tight/hard then it has trouble and seeks softer ground.  I may be mistaken on this but that is what I understand.

Definitely would make a good science project!!!

Ed

[BlueBee]

OK, if the beetles must have the right kind of soil to pupate in to live in a given area (I’m skeptical), then why not use top entrances on all your hives to make it much harder for the SHB larvae to get out of the hive and into the soil?  That would seem like a no brainer to me.  What am I missing here?

[Intheswamp]

From what Russell over in Mississippi told me they climb quiet well.  Plus, we'd also have to use solid bottom boards to keep them in.

Ed

[Jim134]

Is this not the topic
 

Hi, as mentioned Im new and confused about space for bees.  I am looking at some 8 frame medium hives, it says it has 2 supers.  Is it enough? I am getting a package 3lb soon.

Also, how do I tell when to add supers?  I am so worried  :(

While Im on the subject does anyone have a link where I can buy a CD that would maybe walk me through step by step?

Thank you in advance 

Not SHB,wax moths or am I confused 
 :stayontopic:


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)