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Author Topic: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa  (Read 2180 times)

Online iddee

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Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« on: October 19, 2016, 10:49:52 PM »
Why Grandpa carries a gun:

My old Grandpa said to me, 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take a whoopin'.'
 
I don't carry a gun to kill people; I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm evil; I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the World.
 
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government; I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm angry; I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
 
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone; I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
 
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man; I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
 
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate; I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
 
I don't carry a gun because I love it; I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
 
Police protection is an oxymoron: Free citizens must protect themselves because police cannot protect you from crime; they investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
 
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take a whoopin'!
 
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
PLEASE DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT, THAT THIS COULDN'T HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY ALSO.
 
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control: From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control: From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938: From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were  unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935: From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964: From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970: From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956: From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
56 million defenseless people were rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control.
 
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
 
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
 
With guns, we are 'citizens'; without them, we are 'subjects'.
 
During WW II, the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
 
Gun owners in the USA are the largest armed forces in the World!
 
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.
 
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense.
 
The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
 
SWITZERLAND ISSUES A GUN TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD!  SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT ISSUES AND TRAINS EVERY ADULT IN THE USE OF A RIFLE. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
 
IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
 
I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment! If you are too, please forward this. If you're not a believer, please reconsider the true facts. This is history; not what's being shown on TV, sanctioned by our illustrious delusional leaders in Washington.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2016, 09:30:31 AM »
I am a firm believer in the second amendment too but I don't see a reason for any law abiding citizen to own a stock of personal war machines and have virtually no means of preventing them from getting in the hands of those that are not law abiding.
We had a system of everybody wielding a gun in this country (the wild, wild, west).  That era wasn't so grand for some people and it was far from a low crime rate.  We had an era of bootlegging gangsters which still exists today in the form of street gangs and drug lords.  Your personal weapons will only get you killed and maybe some of your neighbors if you try to take on these gangs.
England doesn't have cases where cops shoot unarmed citizens because the street cop doesn't carry a gun.
Do you honestly believe you can defend yourself against the evils of the world without some form of government force?  Are we civilized or are we not?

If our government wants to wage war on the citizens of the United States it is not going to be a gun battle, it is going to be a massacre like Syria.  What foreign country is going to come to the aid of american citizens if this massacre should occur?

The second amendment has no bearing on the protection of its citizens against our own government.  It is simply a privilege for law abiding citizens to own a fire arm (not a war machine).  The privilege is taken away when the citizen becomes a criminal.  Unfortunately when there are no controls or not enough controls policing the criminals so they don't get firearms becomes impossible.  That is where we are now.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2016, 11:57:32 AM »
>We had a system of everybody wielding a gun in this country (the wild, wild, west).  That era wasn't so grand for some people and it was far from a low crime rate.

Quite simply not true.  It was one of the most peaceful times of our history.  People didn't lock their doors.  Crime was rare.  Western movies need a bad guy, so the screen writers  invent them.

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2016, 12:24:06 PM »
Quote
The second amendment has no bearing on the protection of its citizens against our own government.  It is simply a privilege for law abiding citizens to own a fire arm (not a war machine).  The privilege is taken away when the citizen becomes a criminal.  Unfortunately when there are no controls or not enough controls policing the criminals so they don't get firearms becomes impossible.  That is where we are now.

First, it is not a privilege, it is a right.  It can be revoked under certain circumstances, as can any right.

Quote
England doesn't have cases where cops shoot unarmed citizens because the street cop doesn't carry a gun.

England also has had cases where they could not respond rapidly to a nut with a gun because they had no armed police.  yes, nuts get guns in England....

Quote
Do you honestly believe you can defend yourself against the evils of the world without some form of government force?  Are we civilized or are we not?

Civilization can depend on a number of things.  1. would be a shared moral/belief code.  We no longer have that.  It can also depend on government force.  We are getting more of that. 
While I am happy to pay for police, my safety does not depend on them.  They respond after an event.  My safety depends on those around me being civilized and following the laws, whether they be laws by the government or the laws of our shared moral code.  Since we know that people don't follow the laws and we know that police respond to what has already happened, I must be prepared to fill in that gap by being able to protect myself.

Quote
If our government wants to wage war on the citizens of the United States it is not going to be a gun battle, it is going to be a massacre like Syria.

Perhaps, but they will face one heck of an insurgency, won't they? 

You point out that the problem is with the criminals.  If I have a whole war arsenal in my safe and I am not a criminal, what difference does my arsenal make to you?  If I am a criminal, the law already says I can't be armed...but I ignore the law....because I am a criminal and don't care what it says.

One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

George Orwell  "1984"

Offline gww

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 12:30:41 PM »
If I was worried for some reason, I would carry a gun wether leagal or not.  This being the case, I would rather laws not be made that make me illiegal.  If the govenrment decided to take me on, I would lose because my gun is not as big as their gun and they use my money to buy their gun and so can get the best.  They are also more organized then an antisocial hermit can be.

I have not bought a new gun since they made waiting periods and registration and back ground checks.  It is not that I could not pass a back ground check but more that I am too lazy to mess with all the hassel.  I am hopeing they don't pass laws that don't allow me to buy or sell or trade guns only with government involvement cause then I will be a criminal in just one more fassion where I am not one now cause in the end I will do what I want although not in as open of a fassion as I do now.

I agree that police can not protect people but are more of a pick up the peices and try for justice after the fact type of justice type service.  It has to be this way in an innocent untill proven guilty type of sociaty.   I don't think I will win in a confrontation with a criminal just cause I have a gun.  The criminal gets to pick when and how far he is willing to go before he commits his act and since my goal is to be nice and cause no harm, I would already be at a dissadvantage because I would want to be sure I was doing the right thing.  I still like to keep my guns for the one time that they might help.

I don't believe in trigger lock laws and safe laws and it is not imposible that my grandkids could reach where a gun might be.  If there was an accidental shooting I would hate myself forever but like all things in a free sociaty, I decide the risk to benefits of my acctions and then trust for it to work out.

There are bad poeple out there and they do not care about laws and if they steal my gun and use it badly there is no real protection from them.  They could have been a pedifile and stole my child.  Bad people are bad no matter what the rules.  I just don't want to be a bad person also because I feel the need at times to protect myself.   And I would be a bad person if the law made me one if I was scared enough that I felt I needed to be.  I have gotten drawn into stressful situations before.  One time at midnite a girl knocked on my door and said her boyfriend threw her out of his truck.  I didn't know what his feelings were but knew I was in the middle of it though no fault of my own.  It was nice to have a 1911 45 cal that pit perfectly in the pit of my back.  I thank god that no situation has ever drew me in so far that I have to live with the consiquences of either using the gun or losing cause I didn't use it.  But I do reconize stuff happens and know I mostly want to do good and feel I shouldn't be made a criminal when I make desissions that I see no other choice but to make.

I don't pretent to have answers on how to handle those who are motivated to do bad.  I think to live in a sociaty of freedom that it brings risk but is worth it.  I believe on the police that are killing citizens the same thing that ace mentioned with proabition in the 20s is also causing the same types of problims proabition on drugs cause today.

Cop don't need to hit a house at midnite and use flash bombs so they can serve a drug inforcement warrent.  I remember growing up and having 2 police in my town and one cop car and the cops would walk dow mainstreet and check buisness doors.  The population is close today to what it was then but we now probly have 10 cops and 6 cars.  You tell me what might be a real problim and which caused which.  Was it that people got that much worse or that having that many cops sorta causes a war.

I don't know but know when we only had two cops it didn't seem that bad out there.

Cheers
gww

Offline Psparr

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2016, 12:49:49 PM »
Acebird you are completely misguided when you state that the second amendment has no bearing on the protection of its citizens against its own government.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR.

The founders came from a tyrannical government and knew ours could very well follow that same path. Hence the second amendment.

Please watch this video. It's humorous but also very informative.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2016, 01:39:14 PM »
THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR.

You honestly believe the second amendment gives you an edge against the federal government?  Your delusional.

The forefathers gave the right to bear arms because foreign governments were hiring Indians to do their dirty work.  They also needed a way to hunt for food.  Were slaves allowed to have guns?  No.  Did the federal government ever attack its citizens?  Yes they did.  Did the second amendment help them that were under attack.  No it did not.
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Offline Psparr

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2016, 01:55:27 PM »
 The great thing about the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it" Thomas Jefferson

The Bill of rights was added to protect the American people from our newly formed government from becoming like the British government. Remember when Obama said it's a document of "negative liberties"? He got one thing right when he said it tells us what the government can't do, not what it should do for us. Why would the second amendment be a constitutional right if it were just to keep a few Indians at bay?  Seems a law would have sufficed.

Offline kathyp

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2016, 03:15:58 PM »
Quote
You honestly believe the second amendment gives you an edge against the federal government?  Your delusional.

You miss the point.  It's not about having the edge.  I may not have the edge over a criminal either.  It is about having the right to protect myself and yes, to give my government pause if they ever decide they want to take me on.  I might lose, but I will not lose passively.  It is worth noting that if we were keeping our federal government within the bounds of the constitution, this conversation would not be happening.  Because my government has chosen to over step and it has become apparent that the voting public can't/won't constrain them, then I must consider all possibilities. 
While taking on my government in some kind of war is not the first thing on my mind, I think about all the people around the world who did not have government oppression on their minds, and yet became oppressed by their government.  It can happen.

We have a government right now that has tested the constitution and won against it.  Things that once seems fantasy, now seem more like reality. 

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

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Online iddee

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2016, 05:16:40 PM »
The 2nd is not for us to overthrow the government, nor to win a fight with the government. It is to prevent a fight in the beginning. That has been successful for 200 years.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2016, 06:03:41 PM »
Why would the second amendment be a constitutional right if it were just to keep a few Indians at bay?
Because they didn't have cell phones or the media and the internet.  They were on their own in the middle of nowhere.  They couldn't call for help and have it arrive in time.  The firearm was the one slight advantage they had over the Indian.
Today the world is different.  Nut cases end up with automatic weapons (supposedly locked up) and massacre innocent people.  That could never happen 200 years ago.  The weapons were not that advanced.
Our for fathers would have never given the citizens the right to own and AR-15.  They were aristocratic people who didn't trust the average citizen to vote correctly so they gave the citizen the right to vote for a representative.  The representative then decides whether he (there was no she back then) would agree with the majority.  And that system hasn't changed yet, 200 years later.  So us dummies (what they thought we were) vote for a representative instead of voting directly for a president.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2016, 07:49:27 PM »
Quote
Nut cases end up with automatic weapons (supposedly locked up) and massacre innocent people.

I don't know of one nut case or other, with an automatic weapon.

Quote
Our for fathers would have never given the citizens the right to own and AR-15.

on what do you base that?  and what is the difference between an AR-15 and any other semi-auto weapon?

Quote
They were aristocratic people who didn't trust the average citizen to vote correctly so they gave the citizen the right to vote for a representative.  The representative then decides whether he (there was no she back then) would agree with the majority.

That is not the reason for the house and senate.  They are legislative bodies to represent their districts and states.  The founders recognized that straight democracy was mob rule.  The purpose of representatives was to keep mob rule from happening, while giving the people control of their reps.  that's why the congresspeople are re-elected every 2 years. 

The electoral college is designed to give added weight to less populated places.  If not for that, you would have NY and CA making the choice for president each and every time.

As for your assertion that the folks needed guns because they couldn't use a cell phone to call for help against Indian attacks...we now can use a cell phone when under attack.  I submit that the teacher under her desk during the Columbine shooting would have been better served by a Glock than a Samsung. 
One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

George Orwell  "1984"

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2016, 09:23:56 PM »
I submit that the teacher under her desk during the Columbine shooting would have been better served by a Glock than a Samsung.
Well we don't agree.  The teacher would have been targeted if she had a gun.  These kids where nut cases on a suicidal mission that was well planned.  The fact that they had access to these firearms is indeed the problem.  Whack jobs with unregistered firearms is indeed my concern.
You have a right to drive a car ... it requires a license and registration
You have a right to fish ... it requires a license along with limit rules and species that are in season
You have a right to own a boat ... it requires a registration
You have a right to own a snowmobile ... it requires a registration
You have  a right to hunt ... it requires a license and a season for hunting

But when it come to war machines and armaments you think your hidden safe is good enough.  I don't.  I think it is a liability where almost any fruit cake that has nothing to lose can gain access to your stash and do damage to innocent people.

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Online iddee

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2016, 09:36:18 PM »
Agreed, any nutcase can gain access to my car or truck, baseball bats. knives, hammers, ETC, and do damage to people. It happens daily. Let's get rid of them all.
Smart thinking, ace.


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Offline gww

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 09:54:00 PM »
Ace
Had I been the teacher, I would have liked to have a gun.  I know myself well enough to know that I still may have just hid under the desk and not went out and tried to stop them but would have still liked to had a gun for myself if I was stuck there.  I wish I would have went out and took a chance of being targeted if it might have stopped them but can only say that I really don't know that I would have and won't know unless put in that position god forgive.

Your view is that is is self defence to keep everybody with out guns and my view is it is self defence if I have one around.  I understand your view but have lived my life with my view and am more comfortable with mine.  I just don't believe you can stop people with ill will and no fear of being hurt or even worse, intending to be hurt.  I even believe it would be a very lucky thing if my having a gun would have any impact but there are cases.  The guy that stopped a break in and was successful was probably thankfull for the chance to be successful.  I would even go so far as to say that maby more people have been hurt by bad people with bad intent with guns then were saved by them.  I do say though if you were the one successful in defending yourself, You would still be most greatfull for being able to defend yourself.  In the end somebody gets hurt and some one is saved.  If I have the right to defend myself then how I pick to do it is one thing that gives me freedom.  If I freeze and let the guy take my gun and shoot me, that would also be a choice of sorts.  We have to pick our poisen and then live with the consequences
I think that selfdefence puts gun ownership in a differrent catagory then driving hunting and fishing.
Cheers
gww
Ps  I would probly die even with a gun cause I wouldn't want to shoot some teenager that broke into my house just because he was kinda dumb and didn't reconize the danger.  I believe in second chances if they are possible even though it doesn't always work out for the best.

Offline Psparr

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Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2016, 09:54:01 PM »
Then I guess the sandy hook folks were targeted because of the guns there? Or anywhere else there's a mass shooting?
What do all those places have in common?. . . No weapons to stop the nut job.

So how do you stop them from getting access to said firearms. I know, let's make strict gun laws. Maybe like Chicago has.

Let's just follow the leftist wet dream of no guns for citizens. Sounds like a utopia. . . Oh wait. . . There's those pesky box trucks. I guess that leaves us with just sporks and cotton balls.

Offline gww

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2016, 10:02:52 PM »
pasparr
Quote
Then I guess the sandy hook folks were targeted because of the guns there? Or anywhere else there's a mass shooting?

Then again some people target people with the chance to kill them back because they want to die in spectacular fassion.  Some people just do bad.  Period.
Cheers
gww

Ps Some people pull the wings of flys or kick the dog for fun.  Some good poeple want to stop this stuff but don't know how.  I don't know how and so just go through life and trust luck and feel bad for the pain and help if I can but don't pretend to know how a serial killer can find enjoyment out of causing pain or any other crazy sob that finds enjoyment out of pain of others.  I reconize it is there though.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2016, 09:12:48 AM »
Your view is that is is self defence to keep everybody with out guns

No not quite.  I have already stated that I believe in the second amendment and would fight to the finish to retain the right to own a firearm even though the closest gun that I have access to right now is a bolt action 22 rifle.  That is almost a suicide gun for self defense.
What I do believe in is that any war related firearm, ammunition, or explosive device should be registered with the feds, require a psychiatric evaluation prior to ownership and licensing and not be allowed to sell such items to anyone that does not posses the same license.  Failure to obtain said license prior to possessing these items would be a felony.

It is a matter of common sense that anyone using a firearm should take a firearm safety course before using.  I did many, many years ago before I got my first hunting license.  All of my hunting was done with a double barrel shot gun.  I never owned a deer rifle.  Back in my day shot guns and deer rifles were slung across the back window of your pickup.  Today I don't see it anymore.  Times have changed.  So I am not in favor of nobody having guns and never will be.
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Offline Psparr

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2016, 09:51:15 AM »
Acebird, how do you keep people from attaining the weapons you don't want them to have?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why Grandpa carries a gun: PS. I'm grandpa
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2016, 10:10:08 AM »
How do you keep people from driving without a license?  For the most part it is the fear of getting caught.  Then there is the getting caught.  But this all depends on registration and a rapid data exchange system that separates the legal from the illegal.  Without the registration and licensing the task is impossible.
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