Checklist for Mentorying New Beeks

[AliciaH]

Hey, everyone!  Asking for your help with a project of mine.  Last year our club tried to breathe new life into a mentorship program.  It was my job to pair folks up for the year.  Learned a lot!  This year it is my goal to provide a checklist to the new round of mentors, some of which will be be new journeyman students who have not actually been beekeeping all that long (it is now a requirement in WA state that you have to mentor a new beek to get your certification).  It will also be a reminder for the more experienced mentors to teach things that they may easily be taking for granted because they've been at it awhile.

To that end, what can you add to my list as the biggest issues for new beeks?

1.  How long to feed and when to stop.
2.  Treatment philosophy (package vs. nuc) and how to get bees tested.
3.  How to spot eggs and how to tell supersedure queen cells from swarm cells.
4.  Swarm prevention and the fact that it will happen so get over it (meant jokingly!).

Thanks!
3

[Poppi]

AliciaH  Hi and hope you are successful...  I"m sure you will be...

I'm a new beek this year and I suppose you will cover some on pests in the hive...  I heard so much, maybe too much, information on just what to look for with Varroa mites.  It's still confusing because I read so much on what levels are exceptable before you treat...  what and how to treat.  But the real confusing part is I know beekeeper's that have had hives for years and never even check varroa levels and they do just fine.  Others have lost hives because they didn't do anything to keep the varroa in check...   at this point I don't believe there is a "best way" to treat but I know that varroa can destroy a hive in short order.  Very confusing!!   and the list goes on...

[LoriMNnice]

AliciaH  Hi and hope you are successful...  I"m sure you will be...

I'm a new beek this year and I suppose you will cover some on pests in the hive...  I heard so much, maybe too much, information on just what to look for with Varroa mites.  It's still confusing because I read so much on what levels are exceptable before you treat...  what and how to treat.  But the real confusing part is I know beekeeper's that have had hives for years and never even check varroa levels and they do just fine.  Others have lost hives because they didn't do anything to keep the varroa in check...   at this point I don't believe there is a "best way" to treat but I know that varroa can destroy a hive in short order.  Very confusing!!   and the list goes on...

I 2nd that.

[AliciaH]

5.  Signs and symptoms of varroa / How to do a mite count.

Check!

So, Poppi, what's on the rest of your list?

[Kathyp]

the biggest issue i see from questions on this site, is that people often don't know what they are looking at.  the difference between kinds of brood.  normal laying patterns.  how to know if there is a queen without looking for the dot, or without seeing her. 

for most people  the first year seems to be a combination of getting over the apprehension, learning to handle the hives, and learning what they are seeing.
if you can't do those 3 things, you can't advance much farther.

i'm one of those who doesn't bother much with mites  ;)

[AliciaH]

Thanks, kathyp!  I did have one student (and I'm sure there were others) that had a hard time differentiating between what was capped brood and what was capped honey at the beginning.  So that will go on the list, as well. 

And in suggesting that, making sure the new beeks remember what the time line is from egg to larvae to capped brood is something they should remember before they start having problems so that they can figure out those potential queenless issues!

6.  Stages of brood / development cycle time line / laying patterns

Thanks!

[iddee]

To expand on what Kathy said.

Different smoker fuels.
How to light a smoker.
How much smoke to use and when.
Beekeeper calmness is reflected by bee calmness, and vice-versa.
How to tell capped honey from capped brood.
How to recognize eggs, larva, worker cells, drone cells, queen cells, queen cups.
How to judge queen's laying pattern.
How to judge stores by hefting back of hive.
How to estimate strength of hive by number of frames of bees.

The biggest problem I see with mentors is, They are teaching college courses the kindergarten students.

[AliciaH]

You know, the other thing that comes to mind is that it is sometimes difficult to get through to new beeks that they actually have to inspect their hives on a regular basis.  I don't seem to be very good at that.  My version of "10-14 days during swarm season, so watch the news and pick your best weather window" doesn't seem to be clear enough.  Any suggestions for that?

And, yes, I know that a 10-14 day inspection cycle will not catch all the swarms, but if I can't get folks to do that much, then explaining the variations on that theme is just meaningless.

[AliciaH]

7.  Make sure they know how to light their smoker / materials to use

For fall:
8.  Hive strength determination
9.  Amount of stores / hefting

The biggest problem I see with mentors is, They are teaching college courses the kindergarten students.

That's one of my biggest issues.  We have a really great apprenticeship class, but new beeks forget things or get too excited to remember things, or, flat out panic (we all remember being there at some point).  How to gently remind them of things they need to remember without making them feel dumb, and without overwhelming them with information they have no way to apply, is a very thin line sometimes.

Thanks, iddee!

[Kathyp]

i'm not good at this, but it would be helpful for them to get in the habit of keeping a log.  also, encourage picture taking.  even now i do it, and i'll see things on the computer that i didn't see in the hive.  logs and pictures also help them formulate better questions so that they get better help.

[iddee]

8 & 9 are NOT just fall. They are for all season. A continuous feeling of the overall condition of the hive is a VERY valuable asset. Also, the ability will not be obtained, or will be lost, if not incorporated into every inspection.

[AliciaH]

kathyp:  logs and picture taking will definitely be suggested, thanks!

Idee:  I stand corrected and you are right.  I tend to think of "hefting" as a fall thing because I do it when it starts getting colder and I can't get into the hives as much.  But then, I already know what's in the hive.  Having the new beeks feel the weight of the hive over the summer during inspections so that they learn to equate weight with what they have in the hive at the time would definitely be better for them. 

Ditto for hive strength.  I tend to make that "official" determination in the fall to figure out which hives have a chance of making it through the winter and adjust accordingly.  But you are also correct there in that I am splitting and recombining, as necessary, all summer long.  It needs to be addressed that way.

Which plays right into my initial question of things we do that become automatic...obviously, I do it, too.

Thanks for helping clarify that!

Thanks!

[bulldog]

i second the picture taking. it's a lot harder to assess the situation sometimes when your elbow deep and have bees headbutting you than it is to look at pictures on your computer in a much calmer setting. plus you can't always remember frame by frame what's going on, but when it's on the computer your memory can't fail you ( unless your computer is smoking ). i actually find it easier to videotape and then capture still pictures on the computer later. i set up the camera in the beginning and take it down afterwards, saves me from getting honey and propolis on my camera.

i also wish i had started a log of some kind. its especially helpful in calculating when a new queen should be laying, estimating beginnings and ends of nectar flows, etc

hive/frame manipulations  ( what to move, when to move it, and why )

reasons why you might find no brood: queenless/new queen, honeybound, shutting down for winter, etc

[JackM]

As a newbie....
When to START feeding?
What is checking the hive too often?  Correlate to time of year.  I realize the PNW is not the same as Florida.
Second on the smoker....What about pellets for pellet stoves?
Brood patterns, always talked about but very little good data on what it looks like.
Special sounds to identify?  Smells?
What constitutes darth?  I see quite a few different weed flowers but am told it is a dearth now? 
What do orientation flights look like?
Easy to read how and when but seeing when to put on an extra super is priceless.
Foundation versus no foundation?  (Wish I had not bought foundation now)
When to go to the doctor and ask for some medication to calm the nerves?  LOL  just kidding.  Also known as don't drink a whole pot of coffee while waiting for the mentor to show up.......

Have a good day, hope some of these are good ideas.....after all I will only be a newbee once.

[Hemlock]

The biggest issue i had when starting up was bee seasons:
Brood up
Split & Swarm
Flow & Harvest
Building up stores
Winterization & putting to bed
Reading & Equipment building
And any others i may still be missing.

The first year with bees has a different set of seasons altogether.  Not knowing what the bees were working on made the inspections almost pointless.  A newbie made aware of these events can better associate what they're taught towards goals and outcome.  In the least this should be a hand out and constantly referred to.  I have yet to have anyone give this info to me in a single conversation.  Don't make newbies hunt for the most basic information.

A newbie might need to group their questions but contact should be made a minimum of once a month!

[Intheswamp]

Get the newbee to understand that they and their bees are living in a micro-climate of sorts.

For example, Bob The Beekeeper's apiary 10 miles away may have gotten some rains that you did not.  There may be a good honey flow around his yard and his bees may be busting out and packing in the honey while your bees may barely be surviving on your drought stricken area.  The newbee needs to realize it's not his or her fault that the bees aren't packing in the honey, but that it is their responsibility to help the bees survive.   They will have to manage their colonies different from the way Bob does.  What's good for Bob isn't necessarily good for the newbee.

This can apply to other things other than just drought/honey flow....it can apply to your yard's proximity to feral/robber bee colonies, to nectar crops, right-of-way spraying, crop-dusting, skunk/bear/varmit populations, shade/sun, location, etc., etc.,.

Basically, I guess, point out that each bee yard will be at least a bit different from the next yard.  Each needs to be managed on a specific per yard basis.  Micro management, maybe?

Ed

[mikecva]

I have been told that I am 'old school' when mentoring. I first let the new beeks-to-be talk about what they want and expect from keeping bees, and I just listen. They talk about what their end goal is and their fears. We talk about the type of boxes out there and I encourage them to attend beginner classes and club meetings. I will even go out and look at where they plan to set up their boxes. I only offer change suggestions to their plans if it is not good for the bees IMHO. I go over what they learned in class and answer further questions they were to embarrassed to ask in class. I also let them work with me with my bees before they get their own bees.

 Maybe I should move into the 21st century and develop a checklist but almost everything a new-be would encounter the first year is discussed in our clubs beginner classes (that were developed over years by better beeks then I.)   -Mike

[Poppi]

AliciaH,   WOW!   Think you have plenty of things now...    awesome stuff from everyone.  All that Kathyp and Iddee offer is great stuff.  I like what mikecva said as well...   listening to what the new beek wants to do as a beekeeper.  Of course when you're mentoring they probably already have the bees.  For me, nothing would have deterred me from trying beekeeping but I must say it was extremely helpful to read a couple of books so I could ask intelligent questions and see that there is a lot more to it than putting bee's in a box!  Two of the books I chose were recommended on this site...  "Beekeeping for Dummies" and Kim Flottum's "The Backyard Beekeeper".  Of course when I found this site and read Michael Bush's info on his website...  

I will offer one other thought, sometimes you can get overwhelmed with too much information... well, nuff said.   Good luck,  John

[organicfarmer]

A totally different checklist i was thinking about is the 'rules' established to make a good mentor-mentee working relationship. Some people are not necessarily good at teaching, some at being taught. Some love mentors so much, they'll have a whole collection of 5 or 6 and scramble the 7 or 8 advices they'll automatically get (y'know the saying, ask 10 beekprs...).
What's a good list of general guidelines:
for mentors?
for newbees?

[mikecva]

 Of course when you're mentoring they probably already have the bees.  For me, nothing would have deterred me from trying beekeeping but I must say it was extremely helpful to read a couple of books so I could ask intelligent questions and see that there is a lot more to it than putting bee's in a box!  Two of the books I chose were recommended on this site...  "Beekeeping for Dummies" and Kim Flottum's "The Backyard Beekeeper".  Of course when I found this site and read Michael Bush's info on his website...  

I will offer one other thought, sometimes you can get overwhelmed with too much information... well, nuff said.   Good luck,  John

I have picked up some second year beeks but since our beginner class starts in January and ends two or three weeks before their package of bees are ready, most are first year beeks. Since I am good friends with many of my earlier mentories and we still compair notes on their being mentors, I guess I have no real idea when mentoring ends and we are just fellow beeks. I do not call myself their mentor but sometimes they do.

I find being a mentor easier if I remember that beekeeping is the new beeks hobby not mine (we just have the same common hobby.)  -Mike

[Kathyp]

I find being a mentor easier if I remember that beekeeping is the new beeks hobby not mine (we just have the same common hobby.)

that's sort of brilliant!

[AliciaH]

You guys are AWESOME!  There is so much here to work with!  At first, mentoring seems like such a simple concept.  But I have found that it isn't always so.  You have to be good at really listening to your apprentice (thanks, Mike!) because when you do, you pick up really fast who is a self-starter and who is going to need a lot more help.  And sometimes it's hard to put yourself back into that first year. 

Those of us in our softmore/junior years of beekeeping are adding things to our inspection routines because we've found it decreases problems down the line.  But it's not until someone like iddee comes along and hits you over the head with a hive tool and says, "Nope, think about that one again!" (see earlier in this thread -- thanks again, iddee!), that we realize we've even done it!

Hence the checklist.  Now that mentoring is mandatory for our journeyman beekeeping students, we can't afford to take some of these things for granted like that!  In being the mentorship coordinator for our club, I just want to make this process a bit easier for all parties, and you guys have definitely helped me on that path!

Thanks, Everyone!