Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => NATURAL & ORGANIC BEEKEEPING METHODS => Topic started by: Tigerfansga on April 21, 2011, 08:37:47 am
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I am converting some frames to foundationless. I robbed some of my wife's craft sticks. When I put them in the grooves on my frames they only came out about 1/4in - barely the width of one row of comb cells if that. Is that out wide enough? Also, I put 3 sticks per frame, and was left with about an inch on each side without a pop sickle stick. Is that ok or do I need to fill the entire width of the frame? I will be putting these next to frames with drawn comb.
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1/4" will do fine.
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Ok,
Apparently my wife's craft sticks are prone to shrinkage. After sitting overnight, I went back and looked at them, and they looked smaller than I remembered. To prove my point, I took my handy tape measure and measured. What was once 1/4" is now 1/16". This is just my first few frames, and I plan to put them next to drawn comb. Will this be enough? If I was doing a new application with no drawn comb, how much would I want - so I can go buy some non-shrinking craft stick :-P.
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1/16" is on the small side. I'd want at least 1/8" and preferably 1/4"...
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Ok, I only did a few frames. I will get some new craft sticks. Since I glued those small ones in, I may not have a choice but to try them. I will be sure and put them in between frames of drawn comb and see how they do.
Thanks
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Try the Jumbo craft sticks.
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Keep all your sticks from your Dairy Queen visits, for they are about double in width to a regular pop sickle stick and work well with the wedge top board frames to give the size that Michael suggest.
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I think I would get awfully fat eating that many pop sickles. :-D
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You didnt put them in the dryer did ya? For some reason, my friggin clothes dryer keeps shrinking my jeans to where they wont fit any more.
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>Keep all your sticks from your Dairy Queen visit
Do you work at Dairy Queen? That's a lot of Dilly bars...
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That was what I was thinking. For about the price of 2 dilly bars, my wife got a 1000 ct box of jumbo craft sticks for me. They work perfect. Not to mention the medical cost for the impending diabetes. :-D
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That was what I was thinking. For about the price of 2 dilly bars, my wife got a 1000 ct box of jumbo craft sticks for me. They work perfect. Not to mention the medical cost for the impending diabetes. :-D
Yea, but them sticks taste better with the ice cream on em. :-D
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>Keep all your sticks from your Dairy Queen visit
Do you work at Dairy Queen? That's a lot of Dilly bars...
No I do not but my daughter does so that is a help. ;)
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I was thinking about doing some foundationless honey comb this year too. Should I dip the jumbo popscicle stickes in wax before placing them in the frame. Would that help them get started faster? Just wondering.
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In my limited experience I did not find that coating the guide piece (popsicle stick) with wax helped to get the frame drawn more quickly. What does work for me if to place the foundationless frames between other drawn frames, and placing odd pieces of extra burr comb in the frames using rubber bands.
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>Should I dip the jumbo popscicle stickes in wax before placing them in the frame.
No.
> Would that help them get started faster?
No. It will not stick as well as the bees will attach the comb and will make a weaker connection.
http://bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm (http://bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm)
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Or use paint stir sticks cut in half lengthwise, or to size.
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I used paint stir sticks from Lowe's, and didn't cut them in half lengthwise. I have only inspected the hive once since installing the bees.
On the first inspection, I noticed the bees were drawing comb from the side of the stick, rather then from bottom edge. Should I cut it out and reshape it?
First hive, so any suggestions would be great.
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How far off is it? If the comb is off the thickness of the stick, no, I would not. If the comb is off by half the width of the top bar, yes, I would cut it out and rubber band it back in the center.
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I use paint stirring sticks cut in half, and then pieces cut to lenght to fill groove. I put a couple of drops of hot glue in groove and then the stir stick. So far working good.
Joe
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I ran out of paint stir sticks, so I've been adding them in with just a groove and nothing sticking out at all. They've been building on them fine so far.
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>I ran out of paint stir sticks, so I've been adding them in with just a groove and nothing sticking out at all. They've been building on them fine so far.
If you put an empty frame between two drawn brood comb or two capped honey combs they will draw it fine with no other guide. Otherwise you must have just been lucky.
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>I ran out of paint stir sticks, so I've been adding them in with just a groove and nothing sticking out at all. They've been building on them fine so far.
If you put an empty frame between two drawn brood comb or two capped honey combs they will draw it fine with no other guide. Otherwise you must have just been lucky.
Yes, these are in 4-year-old hives with perfect comb on either side.
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I've found that any more than 1/4" and the will draw on both sides of the starter strip creating double comb that's a mess to make right.
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Started my first 2 hives 5/20/12. 5 frame nuc in the middle and 2 foundationless frames on one side and 3 on the other. I used foundationless frames from Kelly. I did not wax them. In 6 days they have filled a complete frame in each hive and have starts on 2 others. What a sight, a full frame of perfect brood comb. Will post photos when I can(new member). Was careful to level the hives. Bees are bringing in pollen and nectar dawn to dusk and have not been fed. The bees have been awesome, very gentle. Carnolian and Minnesota hygienic mix. Install and first inspection without a sting, although one hive got closed a little early due to headbutting.
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Would be very interested in seeing pictures of how the frame should look before you install also if someone has a picture of using the sticks as starter strips. Also looking forward to seeing that drawn brood comb. :)
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I don't buy any sticks at all to use as starters.
I just get wedge to frames and turn the so it points downward and attach it to the top bar with two 1/2"staples.
It works very well.
You do have ensure your hive is level side to side though, as if it is not when the bees hang from the strip they will not be lined up with the frame and the comb (being built straight down) will slant to one side as well.
On deep frames, I also run 20 lb test fish line tightly through the wiring holes to support the soft comb until it hardens.
I lost a brood comb or to on hot summer days before I learned that fix.
Michael B, Thanks of your website.
It has been a great help to me.
I bought the book primarily to recompense all your hard work.
(And have since given it a lot of use.)
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I put paint stirrer sticks on my frames. I didn't break them in half and they hung about 1" below the top bar. This was a mistake, as the bees essentially wasted the space to either side of the paint stirrer. Or they built comb on either side of the stick, rather then on the bottom of the stick.
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I put paint stirrer sticks on my frames. I didn't break them in half and they hung about 1" below the top bar. This was a mistake, as the bees essentially wasted the space to either side of the paint stirrer. Or they built comb on either side of the stick, rather then on the bottom of the stick.
I hope I wasn't misleading or forgot that detail. I cut mine so they only stuck out about 1/4 inch below the bar. I'm sorry you have a mess :(
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We used craft sticks this year too. At 1/4", the bees were building on either side, but not the center. We pushed them up so they were showing between 1/8 and 1/16". That was better. After a couple of months we noticed that the comb was way off at the bottom and then we realized that the earth had shrunk so much because of the drought that the hives were out of level. We leveled them again and things have been better.
It's really important to get your hives level.
Also, we tried a few different types of frames - the slat ones, and the ones where you push the wedge over, then staple it in place and the ones with a plain old wedge. The bees don't seem to care. I like the plain wedge ones best [from Kelley]. Less fuss.
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I put paint stirrer sticks on my frames. I didn't break them in half and they hung about 1" below the top bar. This was a mistake, as the bees essentially wasted the space to either side of the paint stirrer. Or they built comb on either side of the stick, rather then on the bottom of the stick.
I hope I wasn't misleading or forgot that detail. I cut mine so they only stuck out about 1/4 inch below the bar. I'm sorry you have a mess :(
No I did that earlier this year. It wasn't because of your advice.
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On my top bar hive , I took the top bar and clamped a piece of cotton string in the middle and then took soldering iron and waxed the string...Have all combs drawn in the middle and very strong comb attachment.. NO FALL OFFS.. So am going to do the same in my 6 langs, when i need more supers..
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You didnt put them in the dryer did ya? For some reason, my friggin clothes dryer keeps shrinking my jeans to where they wont fit any more.
I might have the same brand of dryer as you do, VK9, the same thing's happening to my jeans!
Ed
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The whole space space across the top bar doesn't need to be filled. I guest it would be best practice to fill it, it is fine to leave gaps. If given the choice, I would fill to the sides, and leave the space in the middle.
It probably doesn't matter though.
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>It probably doesn't matter though.
The ends matter because they tend to curve them without any guidance. The middle matters because they often start there and may not be aware of the guides further down. A small gap doesn't matter much, but a big one does.
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On top bar hives they tend to curve the ends toward the front, you can (if you check your hives ) slice the curved part and straighten it
and press the end down gently and they will get straight again..
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I also used the uncut paint stir sticks. I Elmer'ed glued the sticks into the frames. As M. Bush suggests, place these between frames with comb. My Carnolians have no problem building comb this way.
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if you have a doctor friend get some tounge depressers from him/her.
the easiest i have found is just break the wedge bars out, assemble the frames, turn wedge bar sideways and staple it in place sideways.
works great but try to always put a new frame between drawn frames otherwise cross combing will happen.
bailey