Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: 2Sox on March 31, 2013, 10:49:09 am
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I guess this is probably the worst news any beekeeper can have. No bees flying yesterday (temps in the 50s), went into most of the hives. They were done. Sixteen hives going into winter - LOTS of honey left on - and no hives surviving. Varroa hit them kind of hard in the fall, so populations were kind of small and I was prepared for the worst but I didn't expect this.
So my next big job is to process all of the honey they left and to somehow keep the wax moths away from the remaining drawn comb. Gonna stock up on those large plastic drum liners.
I'd be grateful for any advice (and encouragement) you could give me so that I can most efficiently deal with the situation at hand. By the way, I don't treat my colonies and this is my fifth year.
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Traet mite problems in August before they start raising bees that will overwinter. Make sure they don't have too much empty space when closing up for winter.
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Wow!!! Thats a really tough hit to take. You have my sympathies.
Unfortunately I'm too new to offer advice only that I am sorry for you losses.
Don't give up and good luck this year.
I am sure all the people on here will be and are willing to help you.
David
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This kind of news is widespread in Michigan this spring. We have talked to folks that have lost between 80 & 90% of there hives. Whether they treated for mites and nosema, seemed to not be a factor in their losses. Tests are coming up with nothing so far. Scary for us!
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Traet mite problems in August before they start raising bees that will overwinter. Make sure they don't have too much empty space when closing up for winter.
I was about to consider treatment after getting beat up like this. Then just this morning I turned the pages in the March, Bee Culture magazine and came upon Buddy Marterre's article - and it stopped me in my tracks. Take a look at it. It's a good read and makes a lot of sense.
Georgia Boy,
Thanks for your kind words.
I'll be able to rebuild through swarm captures and cutouts. I'm the only one within a hundred mile radius who does them plus I have ads running in the local papers and online. I'm pretty busy but it still hurts to have this kind of thing happen.
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I am right there with you. I also had 100% losses. I treated with hopguard, but nothing for nosema. Had dysentery, but I don't believe that killed them.
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Any sign of brood disease during summer - fall ? I think you have to read "Fifty Years Among the Bees". Miller describes how he lost 42 of 45 beehives during the winter of 1870. His method of "rapid increasing" ( mentioned by too many books ) is followed by "DISASTROUS WINTERING" in page 28/457. I think this bad moment is not known as much as his increasing method, but is the detail containing the true LESSON for everyone. Of course after that he created again his apiary and... wrote this valuable book! I would be concerned in using again the equipment of hives that lost without obvious reason.
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I hear it's very unlikely that any brood disease could kill a hive in winter, especially if they look good in the fall. Our winters are nothing like winters in Greece I imagine. I suspect mites and a long and cold winter has something to do with it.
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Sorry for your loss but, I think everyone who has ever had bees at one time or the other knows your pain. You can have years when everything is all pure success and years that are not so bad and then the year when it all goes south and you wonder if all the hard work was worth it. You fight the good fight and keep trying by doing the very best you can.
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Yes, fight the good fight.
Pretty sure it was because the populations in all my hives were not really booming going into winter. I chalk that up to the effect of Varroa on them. I broke down only 3 of my hives today and I'd estimate I have 120+ pounds of honey - just from these three!. Lots of it is crystallized so I'm going to have to cut it up and sell it as comb honey. I don't use foundation so it's fairly easy.
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2Sox, make sure you freeze your frames and honey before you cut it....by freezing you kill all those tiny little critters that may be living inside the capped cells. Let it thaw and then cut and place in containers.
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Thanks. But up here it was frozen all winter!
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Can you say BRRRRRRRRRR. :-D
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Did you do any mite checks or sugar shakes to determine if you had a mite problem and if so to what extent? I, too think that your hives fell pray to the mite. I have 4 hives and all 4 made it through the winter - that's the good news. The bad news is that for two winters before this past one I lost all hives - two years in a row. The only difference was that I checked and treated for mites last fall - low and behold. All hives made it through the winter.
I sympathize with you and I know the 100% loss feeling first hand. Good luck with your cut outs and swarm calls.
David
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I treated with Formic Acid in late August for 5 days.
There was a fairly high mortality rate on the old bees but I had plenty of brood.
In late October I treated with Fumagilin-B for Nosema.
They went into winter with a large population and 100 pounds of honey at least.
In February I check the food supply in each hive then give the protein patties and 1-1 sugar syrup with Pro-Health.
I was out in one of my bee yards this afternoon and the bees were really flying.
I thought from the sound there might be a swarm out there but nupe just them gals bringing in pollen and I seen several drones at each hive.
I look to be getting swarm calls at anytime now.
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I treated with Formic Acid in late August for 5 days.
There was a fairly high mortality rate on the old bees but I had plenty of brood.
In late October I treated with Fumagilin-B for Nosema.
They went into winter with a large population and 100 pounds of honey at least.
In February I check the food supply in each hive then give the protein patties and 1-1 sugar syrup with Pro-Health.
I was out in one of my bee yards this afternoon and the bees were really flying.
I thought from the sound there might be a swarm out there but nupe just them gals bringing in pollen and I seen several drones at each hive.
I look to be getting swarm calls at anytime now.
Well done! Last winter I had nine out of eleven hives survive. I was pleased with that.
The difference in latitude between Arkansas and Delaware County in the western Catskill Mountains makes a world of difference when winter comes. I still don't plan on treating my bees with anything.
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This kind of news is widespread in Michigan this spring. We have talked to folks that have lost between 80 & 90% of there hives. Whether they treated for mites and nosema, seemed to not be a factor in their losses. Tests are coming up with nothing so far. Scary for us!
This is awful news. I just completed the Bee Informed Partnership questionnaire. I'd be curious to find out what results that get and what information they can give us all to help.
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I feel your loss. Last year I went into winter with 15 double deeps and no treatments. Some were relatively weak but still strong, others were absolutely packed. I lost 14 during the winter. I refused used to repeat my mistake and changed my technique. This year I went with consistant drone removal and Hopguard. All 15 survived (I worked them yesterday).
Are you planning to change anything? Considering you've already vowed to not treat your bees with anything, if you change nothing be prepared for years where you repeat those losses.
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I feel your loss. Last year I went into winter with 15 double deeps and no treatments. Some were relatively weak but still strong, others were absolutely packed. I lost 14 during the winter. I refused used to repeat my mistake and changed my technique. This year I went with consistant drone removal and Hopguard. All 15 survived (I worked them yesterday).
Are you planning to change anything? Considering you've already vowed to not treat your bees with anything, if you change nothing be prepared for years where you repeat those losses.
I've considered using MAQS. I think I made the mistake of leaving too much room for them considering the small populations they had. I think this added to their demise. I'll need to tighten up their space this fall.
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I'm the only one within a hundred mile radius who does them plus I have ads running in the local papers and online.
Don't count on that. Im just on the north side of you and I collect swarms, and cut out colonies for people.
You would be better off treating for mites after pulling the last of the honey off.
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Yes, fight the good fight.
Pretty sure it was because the populations in all my hives were not really booming going into winter. I chalk that up to the effect of Varroa on them. I broke down only 3 of my hives today and I'd estimate I have 120+ pounds of honey - just from these three!. Lots of it is crystallized so I'm going to have to cut it up and sell it as comb honey. I don't use foundation so it's fairly easy.
Has this comb been used for brood that the honey is stored in now? If so I dont think you want to sell it. In fact if the comb doesn't look pristine I personally would not sell it. You may find you are driving customers away. Maybe its better to keep that food for your new swarms and cutouts.
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I asked from Finland's main beekeeping educator, what he has found about big losses in some areas.
- What you mean?
- When we talked last, you were going to look 150 hives yard where every single hive had died last winter.
- Yes, varroa loads were heavy. They had treated too lightly in August the colonies. Only 5 day treatment and then oxalic trickling too early.
A beekeeper was very experienced but that happened.
4-5 years ago our main educator wrote wrote that he has not nothing to say any more because things go fine with varroa.
But then everything turned around. Hives started to die more and more.
They say that varroa has become more danger because side diseases like viruses are more angry.
It seems too, that even if modern treatments promise 96% reduction in mites, too often reduction is only 70-80%. That leave too much living mites into the hive.
I have found myself, that when I have a feeling that I know this thing, the varroa hits back worse than ever.
Nowadays countries tell about big hives losses purely for varroa.
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I'm the only one within a hundred mile radius who does them plus I have ads running in the local papers and online.
Don't count on that. Im just on the north side of you and I collect swarms, and cut out colonies for people.
You would be better off treating for mites after pulling the last of the honey off.
Thanks for the advice and I am considering treatment - about 0.001 percent there already. ;) And I certainly do "count on that". I did twelve cut outs last season and got called for that many swarms. I have no doubt at all that I'll be able to build up again. And I don't have any plans for buying bees - especially from the south.
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Duplicate post deleted.
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I'm the only one within a hundred mile radius who does them plus I have ads running in the local papers and online.
Don't count on that. Im just on the north side of you and I collect swarms, and cut out colonies for people.
You would be better off treating for mites after pulling the last of the honey off.
Thanks for the advice and I am considering treatment - about 0.001 percent there already. ;) And I certainly do "count on that". I did twelve cut outs last season and got called for that many swarms. I have no doubt at all that I'll be able to build up again. And I don't have any plans for buying bees - especially from the south.
Were the bees you had from the South?
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The bees weren't from the south, although during the season I had actually gotten several queens from the south to get a few colonies out of trouble. When I started, I had Russian hybrids. But by this time, I don't know what I've ended up with because so many are from swarms and cut outs and they've requeened themselves several times.
I like Olivarez' queens out of California, if I have to order any.
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Im not doubting you making up your colonies with cutouts and capturing swarms. I don't do many cutouts here in this area. People here expect it done for free. I did many more cutouts in KC when I lived there.
Im just doubting you are 100 miles from me. I suppose its possible.
Though they may seem like native bees (is there such a thing in north america?) I would bet these swarms, cutouts come from large commercial guys in your close vicinity who run south in the winter. Maybe not, but you maybe surprised.
If you were to buy queens why wouldn't you buy them from Lynn Barton? He is practically your neighbor and raises queens here in NY.
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I'm glad you're not doubting me - otherwise I'd have to show you my Schedule C for my LLC. :) If you'd like, I can PM you my contract with my rates for my cut outs and my listing on the Internet.
Perhaps, I was exagerating the mileage. I've done cutouts as far away as Cooperstown and that's around 52 miles away and Budd Lake, NJ about 150 miles away - but that was a day when I was coming from NYC, so that doesn't count. I'm affiliated with two other beekeepers so we cover a very wide area.
Thanks for the lead on Lyn Barton. Please send me his contact info. Thanks.