Author Topic: How to pick Swarm Trap locations? (Read 10425 times)

Grandma_DOG · « **on:** January 10, 2010, 03:15:36 pm »

I was reading this post http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,26212.0.html
It brought to mind my big weakness on swarm trapping is that I don't have a good feel for trap locations.
Yes, the obvious location would be 100 feet from all 4 corners of my apiary, and where any past swarm has alighted. But absent those easy spots, the only guide I've heard about is the edge of woods near logical landmark trees bees would use.

Question to the beemaster hive mind is this - What spots make for good bait hives?

danno · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2010, 09:24:14 am »

I can only tell you what works for me. The answer is anywhere I hang them. I put them about 5-6 ft off the ground in shady areas. Being a old coyote trapper I use this mind set. I place them so the prevailing winds will carry the lemon grass sent out to the edges of the woods. Last year I had great luck in a couple of old orchards just putting the traps at eye level in the middle of trees. I keep a couple back in my woods about 1000 ft behind my barn that do well and have never caught a swarm with a marked queen. (my queens) When you hang a trap in a good location the scouts will be checking it out within a couple of days. A few days after hanging it when its warm and calm check it out. If there is no activity move it.

JP · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2010, 10:23:02 am »

Because people call me to collect swarms I don't really have to place traps, but since you asked, here's some input that may help.

Certain trees will attract swarm clusters. Find out which ones do for your area. Sounds a little crazy but its true.

In my area: lemon/citrus trees, Holly bushes & Holly trees, magnolia trees & lastly, chinese tallow trees (mostly in May, early June)

Any known bee tree for obvious reasons. Any known bldg (particularly apartment complexes) that have had colonies prior.

Apartment complexes are usually somewhat lax when it comes to maintenance issues and they are just downright swarm magnets. And on top of that, I've come to find they usually take the cheapest route when it comes to bee removal, at least for some time.

...JP

nucsnchooks · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:06:40 pm »

ooh, I've got magnolias and apples trees...my place was an orchard long ago. I guess maybe I could catch some, just need a place to put them :)

jdesq · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:12:56 pm »

If i use a medium with drawn frames and top & bottom and put it in a tree- will that work as a swarm trap?

Kathyp · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:20:29 pm »

it will work. attach the top and bottom with hive staples so you don't have a shift. remember that weight may be an issue. the box can be heavy and add a few pounds of bees to that. my preference for swarm traps are the waxed cardboard nuc boxes because they are light. i use them for swarm removal also. for cutouts i use regular hive bodies.

danno · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:35:02 pm »

I just posted 2 pics from last year of my traps with swarms in them on beemaster facebook group. My square traps dont weigh much over a 1 pound empty. I add a few old combs. A Med or deep box will work but if you dont fill it with frames, swarms will fill the empty space over night and you will have a mess. Swarms can make wax amasingly fast. A box that holds 3 or 4 frames an has no empty space, is light weight and will fit in the branches of trees better.

JP · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2010, 09:23:57 pm »

Quote from: jdesq on January 11, 2010, 02:12:56 pm

If i use a medium with drawn frames and top & bottom and put it in a tree- will that work as a swarm trap?

It will work for some but not for all. I like big traps for big swarms & I like deeps for the big ones. I've caught some that were bigger than a deep and medium combined.

Early in the season and mid season my average swarms are in the 3-4 lb range but 6-8 lbs is not uncommon.

Here's one of the biggest I've caught: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DM74602i3fJbEDfa8sQeRw?feat=directlink

Filled a deep and a cardboard office box.

...JP

bailey · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2010, 11:33:52 pm »

one thing i have noticed is that my swarm traps located close to a canal or bayou or other waterway seems to do well.

if you can find areas that have older housing, old trees or other areas that bees can inhabit in the same area as a waterway try there.
it works well for me in my area.

make sure to bait with brood comb and lemon grass oil.
you wont be disappointed.
bailey

nucsnchooks · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2010, 11:55:12 pm »

OMG, that is ALOT of bees!

Hello bailey, JP got me here!

JP · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2010, 12:08:43 am »

Quote from: nucsnchooks on January 11, 2010, 11:55:12 pm

OMG, that is ALOT of bees!

Hello bailey, JP got me here!

Hey Melissa, here's another one you might like: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hPXAOwMa5BxNnHAbwJXS8A?feat=directlink

Hey Bailey, don't forget about the purple martin gourds, those are great places to catch swarms!

...JP

nucsnchooks · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2010, 12:12:59 am »

Looks like they need a bigger box! Is that a swarm attacking a hive? Or are the storming an empty castle?

JP · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2010, 12:20:52 am »

Quote from: nucsnchooks on January 12, 2010, 12:12:59 am

Looks like they need a bigger box! Is that a swarm attacking a hive? Or are the storming an empty castle?

Melissa, I'm going to PM you the link to the full story on this swarm so I don't further highjack this post.

Sorry Grandma Dog!

...JP

Grandma_DOG · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2010, 12:29:14 am »

That's it JP? Those are tiny for Texas, we have swarms you can barely get in the bed of a pickup.
Sometimes we have to rent gooseneck trailers! :-D

-mt

Quote from: JP on January 11, 2010, 09:23:57 pm

Quote from: jdesq on January 11, 2010, 02:12:56 pm
If i use a medium with drawn frames and top & bottom and put it in a tree- will that work as a swarm trap?

It will work for some but not for all. I like big traps for big swarms & I like deeps for the big ones. I've caught some that were bigger than a deep and medium combined.

Early in the season and mid season my average swarms are in the 3-4 lb range but 6-8 lbs is not uncommon.

Here's one of the biggest I've caught: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DM74602i3fJbEDfa8sQeRw?feat=directlink

Filled a deep and a cardboard office box.

...JP

JP · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2010, 12:51:57 am »

Please call me the next time you get a swarm the size of the bed of a truck, I'll be there asap! ;)

I actually met a guy this season that said he had one in the bed of his truck!

...JP

Grandma_DOG · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2010, 01:02:16 am »

Yea, that happens here, too.

You have to be careful during Summer especially. Sometimes during a heatwave, larger hives will carry off small pickups to use them as water dippers to bring water to the hive. Our truck insurance is higher because of it! :-D

-mt

Quote from: JP on January 12, 2010, 12:51:57 am

Please call me the next time you get a swarm the size of the bed of a truck, I'll be there asap! ;)

I actually met a guy this season that said he had one in the bed of his truck!

...JP

JP · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2010, 10:37:43 am »

Quote from: Grandma_DOG on January 12, 2010, 01:02:16 am

Yea, that happens here, too.

You have to be careful during Summer especially. Sometimes during a heatwave, larger hives will carry off small pickups to use them as water dippers to bring water to the hive. Our truck insurance is higher because of it! :-D

-mt

Quote from: JP on January 12, 2010, 12:51:57 am
Please call me the next time you get a swarm the size of the bed of a truck, I'll be there asap! ;)

I actually met a guy this season that said he had one in the bed of his truck!

...JP

Man, y'all gotta lay off the whacky tabaccy, I know a guy who did too much, swears he saw a mammoth swarm that emptied an olympic sized swimmin pool in less than a second!

...JP

Grandma_DOG · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2010, 02:24:23 am »

Alright, I'm going to take another stab at this.

I'm thinking good sites would be edges of woods near water. Also, edges of woods near large fields of bee blooms.

Perhaps lone trees in fields.

Any other ideas?

danno · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2010, 08:57:50 am »

Quote from: Grandma_DOG on January 15, 2010, 02:24:23 am

Alright, I'm going to take another stab at this.

I'm thinking good sites would be edges of woods near water. Also, edges of woods near large fields of bee blooms.

Perhaps lone trees in fields.

Any other ideas?

These are the type areas I look for. Just pick spots that are shaded but near edges

USC Beeman in TN · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2010, 10:33:54 am »

I think that were ever you got a swarm last year is a good spot for a trap this year. Most feral bees will have a swarm in early spring. If the swarm from last year came from a feral hive, then you have a good chance of trapping a swarm at the same site again this year.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2010, 11:24:16 am »

A good place is anyplace I had swarm traps last year and got some. I'll put up more. A bad place is anyplace I had swarm traps last year and didn't get any...

JP · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2010, 05:00:37 pm »

Quote from: Michael Bush on January 15, 2010, 11:24:16 am

a good place is anyplace I had swarm traps last year and got some. I'll put up more. a bad place is anyplace I had swarm traps last year and didn't get any...

:lau:

...JP

Grandma_DOG · « **Reply #22 on:** January 15, 2010, 06:50:42 pm »

Quote from: Michael Bush on January 15, 2010, 11:24:16 am

a good place is anyplace I had swarm traps last year and got some. I'll put up more. a bad place is anyplace I had swarm traps last year and didn't get any...

My research says to expect 10% occupancy of traps. Is that close to realistic?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2010, 05:38:02 am »

10% is a good guess, but it's like fishing. If all your boxes are in good locations (near existing colonies likely to swarm) then you might even get 90%. If all of them are in poor locations, you may get 0%.

Grandma_DOG · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2010, 08:09:51 pm »

I've dug up several studies. They all agree that the 30-40 liter cavity is ideal. But one also varied the entrance hole. Much to my suprise, if you open it up too much, it becomes highly undesirable. A 40 liter cavity with 15 cm ^2 entrance is the near ideal hive. But open that up to a 60 cm^2 and bees reject it and take a sub par 15 liter hive with 15 cm^2 hole.